NIGHTWISH Mainman Says Next Album Will Be 'A Bit Brighter' Than 'Dark Passion Play'

Comments

1. Maestro said:
   
   "I can't piss in the street publicly."
   ___________________________________
   no surprise that he needs to express sufferings of his tortured soul through his tortured lyrics, then...
   
   Can YOU imagine THAT? Not to piss in the streets publicly...?
   
   But as somebody on Blabbermouth said: is not that income way too low for all that suffering???

   mermaid wrote on 03.11.2009 at 16:05

2. still.... 4 songs ONLY? Princess has half off her album done already... and she manages to write her blong AND do all thiese shoppings...
   
   Hm.

   mermaid wrote on 03.11.2009 at 16:07

3. I hope there will be a lot of songs like Ghost Love Score or The Poet And The Pendulum on the album, that are my favourite songs. I wouldn't mind if the album is bit harder than DPP though...
   
   Damn, I can't wait till 2011. :')

   Manouk wrote on 03.11.2009 at 16:59

4. Manouk,
   
   you did not read it,right?
   
   It is NOT going to be harder ... then DPP.

   mermaid wrote on 03.11.2009 at 17:33

5. mermaid: Marco can piss in the streets publicly, he did it in Romania ... Maestro simply needs to drink more and he too will lose any inhibitions of showing the world his private parts ...

   Almagest wrote on 03.11.2009 at 18:04

6. Notice that Tuomas NEVER truely answered the question about the album being more poppy! O_o

   Gerald wrote on 03.11.2009 at 18:19

7. I remember when TuomAss said:
   "the new singer hace a voice a little bit more approachable"...
   The translation was: she sings like Avril Lavigne
   
   Now he says the new album will be "a bit brighter"
   Tarnslation: it will be like Tokio Hotel
   
   I can see how honest is going to be Fartwish next work... XD

   Who? wrote on 03.11.2009 at 19:46

8. @mermaid
   
   I actually thought the same thing... I realize he didn't mean it literally (I would only hope), but still... I mean, why would you ever want to piss on the street? I'm not famous and I don't do it either...I don't want to do it, even if I could get away with it (although maybe in a case of emergency... nature does call in any occasion). It just seems disrespectful, especially when there are those things called toilets. Which he probably has in that new house he built, I hope.
   
   Aside from that, I understand it's kind of intimidating when people take pictures of your house and everybody knows where you live and can see your property in magazines. I never got the point of that... I wouldn't want to know the actual address or private stuff about musicians or actors that I like, I'm not a stalker, and I think that it's certainly crossing the line between public interest and sick obsession/gossip nonsense.

   Blackwood wrote on 03.11.2009 at 20:00

9. Almagest,
   
   looking forward to that...

   mermaid wrote on 03.11.2009 at 20:10

10. Ohh please...men are famous for pissing on the street. Every man I know has done it at least once. I find it disgusting, but men find it ok. I think he was only trying to mean that he cant do something like that, without having pictures of him taken, which must be really boring. The poor man cannot say one simple phrase without having the media and people analyzing every syllable.

    gaby wrote on 03.11.2009 at 21:23

11. Hahaha, like Tokio Hotel.. That was black humor. One summer I was exposed to their "music" (if you call that s**t music) and I wanted to shoot myself in the end.
    
    Dear Tommi, he also has "domestic" problems. Still, you're lucky you don't live in a five-story tower, man!

    vikingsoul wrote on 03.11.2009 at 21:32

12. @ mermaid
    
    He says "brighter", not slower and softer. ^^
    I think music can be hard and bright at the same time.
    Or maybe I just don't want to admit that the music is getting softer.

    Manouk wrote on 03.11.2009 at 22:59

13. I can't see how they will be able to move on with Anette singing. On album, fine, but she still doesn't sound good live.

    itneverstops wrote on 03.11.2009 at 23:20

14. gaby, but not in the middle of the street where everyone can see me. Myself, even in an emergency, I at least make an effort to find a place that is a little hidden from the glances of the passersby.

    Almagest wrote on 04.11.2009 at 00:30

15. "I can't piss in the street publicly."
    
    My God, what a terrible trouble for Meastro. He wants to piss only on streets?
    
    "A bit brighter"
    
    Meaning more easy-listening kind, poppy, and only a little bit less complaining about being Oceansoul....
    
    
    Gerald
    +10!

    Helga wrote on 04.11.2009 at 00:43

16. 'A Bit Brighter' + Anette = flashy & catchy stuff = symphonic pop metal crap !

    :) wrote on 04.11.2009 at 00:57

17. "Sailing trip"?In Greece and Turkey?This season?
    
    This will be fun.He will have his wish come true,to be buried in the sea,since the weather here is more shitty than ever...
    
    I don't get these people.They may think we are in the freaking California and have good weather 12 months a year...
    
    I must be watching the news for drownings...(although i obviously don't wish that...He does :P)

    Legeon wrote on 04.11.2009 at 01:01

18. Lol. I remember an interview Emppu did for Firetribe where he talked about a time where Marco was blitzed. Marco came up to him and said, "LOOK! It's a little elfin stud muffin!"
    
    So there you have it. Emppu Vuorinen: Elfin stud muffin. MARCO RULZ!!!
    
    Oh and concerning the "joke" Tuomas mentioned in the interview.
    
    Tasteless? Tuomas, that would have killed your band for good. I can't believe they even thought of that idea.

    Jeremy wrote on 04.11.2009 at 01:27

19. It's nice to hear about the new album in this interview and I'm really waiting that!
    Maybe it's relief to pee sometimes on the street because it's natural but the streets are not...who knows!

    Jimmie wrote on 04.11.2009 at 02:16

20. Slightly off topic, but in regards to the video from Graspop above, did someone neglect to tell Anette that she shouldn't be allowed out in an outfit like that? Normally that's the last thing I care about, but it's hideous.
    
    As for a story being published on Tuomas' house, I can see why that would piss anyone off.

    reignofterror wrote on 04.11.2009 at 02:45

21. Definitely I don't understand Tuomas anymore. I don't know why he says that now an helicopter goes to his house, he was the one who let the tv enter at his place with the maan mainiot interview, so I don't know why is he surprised, if you let them enter once...
    And second, I don't know why he couldn't piss on the street when he was having a bath naked in their first dvd...
    
    And concerning the video, this girl, after 4 years, still doesn't know the difference between singing high notes and screaming.

    haatidje wrote on 04.11.2009 at 09:26

22. Reignofterror,
    
    when the Graspop happened, I said in my comment that although I was not getting those wings, it was not so horrible. But I told that because she was some muummuu dress before this... so I saw that as an improvement.
    
    Manouk,
    
    the way I read this interview told me that it is going to be poppy (that question was even asked here and as somebody remarked , that question was not reallyanswered)
    and Maestro basically said that pop song is much more difficult to be created..if you will read it again, he said that poppy songs of him are master pieces which needed months to hard work..
    
    so, I think those TWO years are going to be used to create some 11 pearls of pop music.
    
    Although, if we use this logic on Princess... what kind of song is she creating if she needs one day to do one song?..
    
    Better not thinking.
    
    And as for Maestro´s sudden unhappiness about TV interest in his house... I agree with somebody, who said that Maestro invivted TV to his house, family,friends... etc.
    
    So, I would suggest to allof you to have a look on Main Mainiot first... and then, please, come back and tellme..
    
    what privacy???? we talk about here???
    
    We just did not see Maestro having sex with somebody/something... but otherwise... I think that I have seen more then necessary. And do not you tell me that Maestro did not know he is doing that documentary...

    mermaid wrote on 04.11.2009 at 09:49

23. DEB:
    
    "Tuesday, 3 November 2009
    Good day;=)
    
    Back from the studio again and another great day there;=) Unfortunately I didnt charge my cell phone before going so it was totally out and I couldnt take any photos of the surroundings;=( But tomorrow, I promise.
    
    We did another song today and it is really different and I like it a lot. It was so easy to do the lyrics to it and that is a great feeling.
    
    Now I have just watched Desperate housewives and tonight I feel like sleeping a little bit earlier. We all were quite tired today since we worked late yesterday and its always better to feel rested.
    
    Sleep well;=)
    Posted by Anette Olzon at 22:03 "

    mermaid wrote on 04.11.2009 at 10:01

24. Blackwood,
    
    you really need to see Main Mainiot documentary... you could see it on youtube with english subtitles... because honestly... you still think that there is something like Maestro´s privacy.
    
    As for Almagest,
    
    Christmass greetings of NW are done that way: naked boys running around the tree. So, if you need to see Maestro´s private parts, that is a good apetizer..
    
    Gaby,
    
    we do not have boys pissing on streets... famous, or not famous. There are things like public toillets available. And we have toillets in restaurants, bars, petrol stations, cinemas, clubs, big shops, etc. Actually, even dogs are forbiden to "do it" on streets or in parks. Does not matter how is the dog in question famous or not. :-p
    
    Hi, Tero,
    
    how is your life going?

    mermaid wrote on 04.11.2009 at 10:11

25. Almagest, he would probably find a nice secret spot to piss...and I bet you anything that at least one crazy fan girl will take a piture of him with her camera. Yes, they are people that obsessed (not me, if hats what you are thinking)

    gaby wrote on 04.11.2009 at 10:19

26. best band ever and the most amazing band i love them and i wish to see them and i hope the new album will be 16 or 17 songs and the songs are tall like best song ever POET AND PENDULUM

    nash wrote on 04.11.2009 at 13:52

27. What the Hell !!! It's gonna be lighter than DPP ????? I thought DPP was light enough, almost poppy for some songs !!
    
    I have the feeling that Nightwish is more gothic rock than metal nowadays...

    Yva wrote on 04.11.2009 at 14:45

28. Yva,
    
    I could assure you, that DPP is not GOTHIC at all... I am a goth girl and it sounds to me as if folk..
    
    Well, when "live" it sounds to me as cats on my garden.
    
    But GOTH? Wake up!

    mermaid wrote on 04.11.2009 at 14:54

29. About that "Maan mainiot" -episode.. it was filmed at Tuomas's parents house, where he lived at that time. Now he has his own house on private land. So it's not so suprising that he wants to keep it private. In my opinion it's very offensive that photographers for example climb to his terrace to get pictures inside the house.
    And about that pissing comment.. I don't understand why should deny it ("we do not have boys pissing on streets... famous, or not famous.") almost every place I've visited in Finland, there could see someone pissing at public places (corner of buildings, side of roads..)

    supercherie wrote on 04.11.2009 at 14:58

30. Tuomas said : ?Nah, we don't think about the past times any more really. I mean it didn't occur to me, not even once last night what happened four years ago in the same place"..... "Actually we were planning to, you know before the last song, hire a postal officer or somebody dressed-up to bring a letter on stage to Anette and then she would open it on the stage, but we thought it would be a bit of tasteless joke or then fill up the confetti cannons with letters, that would've been nice as well.?
    
    such a contradiction! I second you Jeremy, I also can 't believe they thought of this idea, but above all, I can't believe Tuomas told it publicly, this is nothing than another provocation and a bad try to make fans fuss again, NW people seem really down......

    TT wrote on 04.11.2009 at 15:07

31. Manouk wrote: "He says "brighter", not slower and softer. ^^
    I think music can be hard and bright at the same time.
    Or maybe I just don't want to admit that the music is getting softer."
    
    I guess it's that - because see, he says "it's going to be a bit brighter but still metal" which means that *even though* it's going to be brighter it's *still* going to be metal. So he admits that this being brighter does lead to a direction that's less metal.
    And to that, as some mentioned here, he didn't answer the question about poppy songs.
    
    But in my opinion it's going to be really difficult to make an album that's less metal than DPP but still metal. If not impossible. But I don't really know very much about different kinds of metal....
    
    After all, that makes me expect even less from the next NW album. I don't have a problem with pop music - not at all - but somebody who makes pop music but still tries to be accepted as a metal band at the same time won't make good pop music. It's fake, more like "I'm making pop because it sells good, but I tell everybody I'm metal because that's cool." :-/
    
    That "pissing on the street" thing is silly, agreed. But I don't think the fact that Tuomas let the press in his house once gives them the right to stalk him, really. Nobody has the right to ignore anyone's privacy.
    
    @Who?: I like your translations :D
    
    @Jeremy and TT: You're right about that joke. Incredibly tasteless. :-/

    Earwen wrote on 04.11.2009 at 16:39

32. Supercherie said.
    
    " it was filmed at Tuomas's parents house, where he lived at that time. Now he has his own house on private land. So it's not so suprising that he wants to keep it private. "
    ______________________________________________
    OK, so his parents house is no that private... his parents and school friends have not private lifes at all...
    
    This must be a CULTURAL difference then, because I do not think that people around me would mind if I will let my own house filmed (I actually was asked already to allow some shoots to be taken IN the house by one newspaper)
    
    BUT they would mind if I will take newspapers or TV with me to invade THEIR privacy.
    
    Hm. Interesting. Or are his parents and friends PUBLIC? and their house as well?

    mermaid wrote on 04.11.2009 at 17:04

33. Supercherie,
    
    as for " I don't understand why should deny it "...
    
    well, I am not denying anything. I am a girl and I never ever saw anybody to do that... And as a pet owner I know that people would comment if my dog will try that, so my shi-tzu SUFFERS as much as Maestro. He can not do that on streets. We have special place for this... :-))

    mermaid wrote on 04.11.2009 at 17:07

34. Earwen:
    
    Thanks, you know I always put my biggest effort to tranlsate TuomAss's words into honest words... XD

    Who? wrote on 04.11.2009 at 17:47

35. The comments here are getting more pathetic each day. :)

    Sami wrote on 04.11.2009 at 17:52

36. Uau, I don't see anyone who causes such enthusiasm for comments like NIghtwish. :lol: I also think that whatever the next album is, it will be extremely difficult for them to prosper with singer like Annette.

    vikingsoul wrote on 04.11.2009 at 19:54

37. "Nah, we don't think about the past times any more really. I mean it didn't occur to me, not even once last night what happened four years ago in the same place"..... "Actually we were planning to, you know before the last song, hire a postal officer or somebody dressed-up to bring a letter on stage to Anette and then she would open it on the stage, but we thought it would be a bit of tasteless joke or then fill up the confetti cannons with letters, that would've been nice as well."
    
    Ok, I am not the only one to say to this: WHAT THE F***!!!!
    If they don't think at all about "past times" then WHY they were planning at one point to do this stupid joke with letter? WHERE IS LOGIC IN THAT?!!!
    Tasteless? It is not only tasteless, it is inhuman. I bet it was his idea in the first place.
    
    And btw, thanks Maestro, for telling this out loud. Now we know that you STILL think about the old times and have some complex with it :))) Lol
    
    Graspop vidoe is good- if you turn the sound down and close your eyes it is not so bad really :)

    $am wrote on 04.11.2009 at 20:11

38. Delivering a letter on stage?... As a joke?... Is he serious?... That is so wrong on so many levels... Though while we're all having a 'WTF' moment about it, I'm sure most of you here would have loved to see that :) Just kidding...
    
    Anyways, I feel compelled to comment on the brighter album here. I'm not getting my hopes up for it, but as someone had said... Brighter does not necessarily equal poppier. Tuo started out writing songs about fairy tale lands and Disney. On DPP he wrote about... well... his own misery and pain. It was dark, it was whiny, and - according to some of my friends - downright annoying.
    
    Now he's probably just talking about writing songs that have a 'brighter' meanings behind them again. Doesn't necessarily mean they will be mainstream pop (I desperately hope not...), just that he is not going to be going on about how tortured his soul is. Like I said, I'm not holding out a whole lot of hope for the next album but there is just more than one way that comment can be taken.

    Tainted~ wrote on 04.11.2009 at 22:02

39. look at 0:50, there's a nice optical illusion between Emppu and Anette, you don't need much more to make some kind of Godzilla effect....
    

    :) wrote on 04.11.2009 at 22:03

40. He will come at Greece???OOOOOH.. i must learn where, when...Tuomas....

    Nicoleta wrote on 04.11.2009 at 22:17

41. Haha, his "letter joke" is a bit rude...still, it would've been funny as hell. But I don't think they'll do such think ever..(again) :-P
    
    "I love scuba-diving and I love going outdoors..."
    
    Copycat, copycat !!! XD
    And now he don't like "Nemo" and "Wishmaster" anymore...what an asshole. :-(
    
    By the way, get your dictionary straight, kids - "brighter" is not a synonym of "lighter", or poppy.
    
    " I can't piss in the street publicly."
    
    Everyone can. It only takes, a certain amount of alcohol in your blood system, to forget "the rules".

    DeadAndGone wrote on 04.11.2009 at 23:26

42. "I'm sure most of you here would have loved to see that :) Just kidding... "
    
    Sorry, not all people are so stupid to have such shitty sense of humor.
    
    
    "Now he's probably just talking about writing songs that have a 'brighter' meanings behind them again. Doesn't necessarily mean they will be mainstream pop (I desperately hope not...),"
    
    "By the way, get your dictionary straight, kids - "brighter" is not a synonym of "lighter", or poppy. "
    
    NW is heading clearly for mainstream already, and he doesn't indicate that he is planning to turn back :)
    
    "Everyone can. It only takes, a certain amount of alcohol in your blood system, to forget "the rules"."
    
    Well, Tuomas drinks alcohol so much that for him it is a norm already. Lamer.

    Terry wrote on 05.11.2009 at 00:32

43. Tuomas acts in that interview like a total jerk!

    NN wrote on 05.11.2009 at 00:33

44. Thanks for that joke we are able to see what an idiot Tuomas is. Only an idiot would come up with such kind of joke.
    Does that guy have any soul or heart? Real ones, not pretended ones about which he likes to bla-bla in his songs.

    Venom wrote on 05.11.2009 at 00:38

45. That's why Finns are so disinhibited about nudity, I suppose.
    
    Agreed about the copycat comment. First Tarja comes out as a Hans Zimmer fan, etc., now Tuomas copies Tarja with the scuba-diving hobby? They have FAR too many things in common! You've got to wonder what would happen if they met scuba-diving or something ... underwater fight, James Bond style?
    
    Anyway, I suppose that's the secret about rock bands going commercial, mainstream and easy-listening. This kind of music is SO much harder to do! Especially for a genius! Repetitive music where all the riffs are the same is so much more difficult to write. Tuomas should REALLY get help from Anette with her head full of ideas! I bet writing songs like "For the Heart I Once Had" is a piece of cake for her because, as we all know, she is a natural born pop rocker! Why don't they simply share songwriting duties on the next album?
    
    But beware of Tarja writing a poppy song! Maestro's fans will be all over her! Only Maestro has the right to do that! Because anything Maestro does is so much more original, even if it isn't, because, you know, it was Maestro who did it, a stamp of quality!
    
    Sami: Well, I suppose we are simply adapting to the standard of the band's pathetic comments ... :-P

    Almagest wrote on 05.11.2009 at 02:17

46. Or perhaps Sami IS really referring to the band's comments, including Princess's? Hmmm ...
    
    haatidje: Do you think there are black helicopters circling above Maestro's house already? You know what his friend Tony Kakko said: The Truth is Out There ... :-p
    
    Yva: Have you ever listened to REAL gothic rock? That kind of stuff is NOT bright and easy-listening ... it is DARK! That's why it's called GOTHIC after all! xD
    
    I find it offensive for gothic rock when boring alternative rock bands like Lacuna Coil or Evanescence are associated with it ...
    
    Which reminds me of that recent interview with Cristina Scabbia. She says she hates when people classify music ... they should simply say "I like this band's music, I like that band ...". That's the way she would prefer it, I suppose! Never mind if a band totally changes their style and dumbs it down ... that just doesn't happen ... Metallica, In Flames ... or Children of Bodom ... they have never played anything else than they've always played and fans are just supposed to buy their shit and shut up! That's exactly what Scabbia is saying!
    
    Critical thinking should be prohibited! It destroys the economy and is responsible for all those crises!

    Almagest wrote on 05.11.2009 at 02:36

47. gaby, when fans analysed every syllable of the Letter, or of Maestro's lyrics, to show that he was but a poor victim of Diva's and Mafioso's malicious plots, did you complain, too?

    Almagest wrote on 05.11.2009 at 02:39

48. Almagest,
    
    What I meant is that he is a tormented soul... poor Tuomas, he has to see an helicopter at his house... poor him... he is an star and he is earning more than 300.000? in a year but his problem is that someone wants a picture of his house.
    
    
    

    haatidje wrote on 05.11.2009 at 09:38

49. Most of the commentens have been written by pathetic people, in my OPINION. When the band kicked Tarja out, haters see Tuomas as an asshole. When they were fans of the band they didn't see him as an asshole. This is very interesting phenomenon. Would he have become an asshole if Tarja had left by her own will? She was going to do that.

    JesseFinn wrote on 05.11.2009 at 12:06

50. "And concerning the video, this girl, after 4 years, still doesn't know the difference between singing high notes and screaming."
    
    Sounds like you have never screamed in your life. Or seen horror movies.
    
    "the way I read this interview told me that it is going to be poppy (that question was even asked here and as somebody remarked , that question was not reallyanswered)
    and Maestro basically said that pop song is much more difficult to be created..if you will read it again, he said that poppy songs of him are master pieces which needed months to hard work.."
    
    How the heck did you understand it like that? I understood that long songs are easier to make and short songs are harder.
    
    "so, I think those TWO years are going to be used to create some 11 pearls of pop music."
    
    You are very pessimistic. I guess you don't like Century Child album. It's musically very light album.
    
    "Christmass greetings of NW are done that way: naked boys running around the tree. So, if you need to see Maestro´s private parts, that is a good apetizer.."
    
    That video was made long ago. Did you complain about it back then?
    
    "I guess it's that - because see, he says "it's going to be a bit brighter but still metal" which means that *even though* it's going to be brighter it's *still* going to be metal. So he admits that this being brighter does lead to a direction that's less metal.
    And to that, as some mentioned here, he didn't answer the question about poppy songs."
    
    You are putting words to his mouth. He did not admit anyghing like that. You just interpreted it like that. I doesn't mean he really meant it like that.
    
    "But in my opinion it's going to be really difficult to make an album that's less metal than DPP but still metal. If not impossible. But I don't really know very much about different kinds of metal...."
    
    It is possible. They can just make new Century Child.
    
    "OK, so his parents house is no that private... his parents and school friends have not private lifes at all..."
    
    I believe his parents have the permission to shoot the programme in their house. And they gave perimission to interview theirselves and so did his friends. I don't think anything was done against anyone's will.
    
    "Hm. Interesting. Or are his parents and friends PUBLIC? and their house as well?"
    
    Remember that Tuomas' chilhood home's address can be found from Angels Fall First album's cover.
    
    "Tasteless? It is not only tasteless, it is inhuman. I bet it was his idea in the first place."
    
    What made you think like that?
    
    "Tuomas acts in that interview like a total jerk!"
    
    If the interview was made in Finnish and the journalist translated it into English it's only natural if there are mistakes.
    
    "Thanks for that joke we are able to see what an idiot Tuomas is. Only an idiot would come up with such kind of joke.
    Does that guy have any soul or heart? Real ones, not pretended ones about which he likes to bla-bla in his songs."
    
    Do you know for sure that the joke was Tuomas' idea? If not, why do you think it was his idea? There are four other members in the band too.
    
    "Agreed about the copycat comment. First Tarja comes out as a Hans Zimmer fan, etc., now Tuomas copies Tarja with the scuba-diving hobby? They have FAR too many things in common! You've got to wonder what would happen if they met scuba-diving or something ... underwater fight, James Bond style?"
    
    Tuomas has been Hans Zimmer fan for years and years, if you didn't know. Same with scuba-diving. It doens't make anyone a copycat.
    
    "But beware of Tarja writing a poppy song! Maestro's fans will be all over her! Only Maestro has the right to do that! Because anything Maestro does is so much more original, even if it isn't, because, you know, it was Maestro who did it, a stamp of quality!"
    
    The best thing about Nightwish is that they can do any kind of music because they are not stuck in one genre. They can do acoustic songs, they can do hard songs, they can do light songs. Something to everybody.
    
    "What I meant is that he is a tormented soul... poor Tuomas, he has to see an helicopter at his house... poor him... he is an star and he is earning more than 300.000? in a year but his problem is that someone wants a picture of his house."
    
    If you were as famous as Tuomas, would you like to see people lurking inside you house when you come home? Or seeing journalists doing the same thing? Or would you like to see a helicopter flying above you home? Or all these things at same time?

    Minna wrote on 05.11.2009 at 15:44

51. "Sounds like you have never screamed in your life. Or seen horror movies."
    
    Well, Anette uses a singing technique calles belting, which is indeed very close to screaming. And especially when she sings older songs - that were written for a classical singer, after all - those high notes are very difficult to hit with that technique. I think she tends to scream there, too.
    
    "You are putting words to his mouth. He did not admit anything like that. You just interpreted it like that. It doesn't mean he really meant it like that."
    
    Well, of course I write only my opinion of what it means, what did you expect? But I still think this opinion is well-founded. he says literally:
    " it's still going to be metal but I think it's going to be a bit brighter"
    So, if that being brighter is NOT contradictory to being metal, then why did he say that? There was no need to say that at all, since all their fans expect their next album to be metal anyway.
    And again, he doesn't answer the next question about the album - if it has more poppy songs.
    
    "It is possible [to make an album that's less metal than DPP but still metal] . They can just make new Century Child. "
    
    I don't think Century Child is half as mainstream as Dark Passion Play (or even as Once), even though there are some lighter songs, but I don't want to start a discussion about that, since it doesn't really matter here. But they won't make a new Century Child - first, of course, because Tarja's voice is still very important and formative there, and second, whatever you dislike about Century Child, it has a kind of dark atmosphere. And he says the next album is going to be brighter.
    
    "Do you know for sure that the joke was Tuomas' idea? If not, why do you think it was his idea? There are four other members in the band too. "
    
    Yes, there are four other members, but I think it's very improbable Jukka or Emppu had that idea, but that's just my opinion. And it can't have been Anette's idea, can it?
    
    However, we know that Tuomas is the one who talked about that joke in an interview and said he was one of those who considered to do it and that's more than enough to criticise him since that joke is indeed incredibly tasteless - or do you actually think that was a good idea or something?!
    
    "Tuomas has been Hans Zimmer fan for years and years, if you didn't know. Same with scuba-diving. It doens't make anyone a copycat. "
    
    We know that Tuomas has been a Hans Zimmer fan for a very long time. I think you misunderstood Almagest; it think he meant that Tarja came out as a Hans Zimmer fan - and we know Tuomas is one, so they have that in common. He didn't say Tuomas became a fan after Tarja.
    I don't know about the scuba-diving, and I don't think it matters.
    
    "The best thing about Nightwish is that they can do any kind of music because they are not stuck in one genre. They can do acoustic songs, they can do hard songs, they can do light songs. Something to everybody. "
    
    That would be a good thing, and personally, I think you're kind of right, but then why did Tuomas get pissed when he was confronted with the opinion that DPP is much more poppier than their older albums? If he uses influences from many genres, why can't he admit that, instead of keeping that "true metal"-attitude?
    
    No offense, I actually think it's really good that you do answer to critical comments and don't write stuff like "get a life" or "if you don't like NW don't post here" like most NNW-fans here do. =)

    Earwen wrote on 05.11.2009 at 22:04

52. @Earwen
    Great post.
    
    And no wonder Tuomas gets all that feedback -after revealing such joke, it deserves nothing more!

    Orion wrote on 05.11.2009 at 22:28

53. Damn, what an amusing "domino-effect" reaction, to my humble "supposed to be ironic" copycat remark. Oh, and the "asshole" one... The IQ decline around here, is quite shocking, I must admit... XD
    
    

    DeadAndGone wrote on 05.11.2009 at 22:42

54. "Well, Anette uses a singing technique calles belting, which is indeed very close to screaming. And especially when she sings older songs - that were written for a classical singer, after all - those high notes are very difficult to hit with that technique. I think she tends to scream there, too."
    
    It is close, yes, but it's not screaming. When Anette sings higher notes I can hear her voice break and that is definitely not screaming. When the band used to have Slaying the Dreamer in their setlist Anette used to scream the ending. Later Marco handled the ending alone. There's is a huge difference between screaming and singing higher by using normal singing voice, not classical voice.
    
    "Well, of course I write only my opinion of what it means, what did you expect? But I still think this opinion is well-founded. he says literally:
    " it's still going to be metal but I think it's going to be a bit brighter"
    So, if that being brighter is NOT contradictory to being metal, then why did he say that? There was no need to say that at all, since all their fans expect their next album to be metal anyway.
    And again, he doesn't answer the next question about the album - if it has more poppy songs."
    
    Metal can be bright. It as simple as that. And it's not news that musicians don't answer the questions. He has written only four songs so maybe he doesn't know yet what the result will be. The only thing we can do for now is to wait.
    
    "I don't think Century Child is half as mainstream as Dark Passion Play (or even as Once), even though there are some lighter songs, but I don't want to start a discussion about that, since it doesn't really matter here. But they won't make a new Century Child - first, of course, because Tarja's voice is still very important and formative there, and second, whatever you dislike about Century Child, it has a kind of dark atmosphere. And he says the next album is going to be brighter."
    
    I find CC more mainstream than DPP. There are at least five songs that sound very light. Musically. Lyrics are just one part of the song and they don't make it so much harder that music does. Tarja sings also much more poppy way than she did in Wishmaster and Oceanborn. Atmosphere is dark but not heavy.
    
    "Yes, there are four other members, but I think it's very improbable Jukka or Emppu had that idea, but that's just my opinion. And it can't have been Anette's idea, can it?"
    
    I have understood that Emppu has very dirty sense of humour. I would not be surprised if it was his idea. Or Marco's. None of us fans really knows the band members well so it's impossible to say for sure who's idea it was.
    
    "However, we know that Tuomas is the one who talked about that joke in an interview and said he was one of those who considered to do it and that's more than enough to criticise him since that joke is indeed incredibly tasteless - or do you actually think that was a good idea or something?!"
    
    No, I don't think it would have been a good idea. It would have been more like inside joke. We don't know *how* seriously they considered the joke. If Marco had told about the joke first and said he considered it, would you have thought it was his idea?
    
    "We know that Tuomas has been a Hans Zimmer fan for a very long time. I think you misunderstood Almagest; it think he meant that Tarja came out as a Hans Zimmer fan - and we know Tuomas is one, so they have that in common. He didn't say Tuomas became a fan after Tarja.
    I don't know about the scuba-diving, and I don't think it matters."
    
    Well, my point was that it's not nice to call someone a copycat if he has same hobby (which he apparently started earlier). It's not very from adult.
    
    "That would be a good thing, and personally, I think you're kind of right, but then why did Tuomas get pissed when he was confronted with the opinion that DPP is much more poppier than their older albums? If he uses influences from many genres, why can't he admit that, instead of keeping that "true metal"-attitude?"
    
    He has admitted that he can satisfy all his musical perversions in Nightwish. I haven't heard he really has got pissed when someone has called DPP poppy. There are two or three lighter songs and the rest are harder.
    
    I'm not offending anyone. I just don't get why people are still so agry at Tuomas and the rest of the band. Especially at Anette. She has done nothing wrong. She is just doing her best and if it's not enough you can always stop listening Nightwish. You are free to choose. Saying bad things just for fun is childish. I can't say I'm and adult, I'm only 19, but sometimes I feel very adult when I read comments like the very first message written by mermaid.

    Minna wrote on 06.11.2009 at 00:18

55. @JesseFinn
    
    Actually the level of your stupidity is pathetic,and the fact that you judge people here without even knowing what they have said and admitted.
    
    Let me repeat some of them.
    
    We have NO PROBLEM with Tarja being out of the band.We actually love it,since now she is happy,she's doing what she wants to,she doesn't have to hide behind someone else's compositions and she isn't being accused for being a cold frozen ice queen,just for doing on stage what TUOMAS ASKED her to do.
    
    The problem is with THE WAY they fired her and what they have said in public.
    
    You know what pathetic is?That NW fans find every freaking way and seek in Tarja's every word for something to accuse her for,but they seemed to accept it perfectly fine when someone who's supposed to be "sensitive" and "humble" denigrated her like that.
    
    Tuomas is being called "Tuomass" not for firing her,but because of the way he did it.

    Legeon wrote on 06.11.2009 at 00:59

56. DeadAndGone:
    
    Yeah, the IQ decline is incredible: just read your own posts and Ratchild's ones... really shocking I must say... XD

    Who? wrote on 06.11.2009 at 02:31

57. @ mermaid
    
    Sorry I am a bit late to answer your stuff but really mermaid sometimes I have the feeling that you don't really read what people say (or maybe you have some comprehension pbs ?)
    
    You probably read the word "Goth" in my post, and directly jumped to conclusions "I am a goth..bla bla bla...DPP was not goth..BLA BLA" : I said Nightwish was turning into gothic ROCK, and if you listen to stuff like for the Heart I once Had, Bye bye and Amaranth, you'll probably see some things in common with gothic rock bands. Probably next album will be pure rock and no more metal, that is what I meant.
    

    Yva wrote on 06.11.2009 at 08:23

58. Yva,
    
    do not you UNDERSTAND? A word "gothic" has nothing to do in a sentence describing Princess´ support band.
    
    It is NEITHER Gothic rock, NOR Gothic metal, NOR Gothic folk, ... it is simply NOT GOTHIC. Whatever it is.
    
    Whining "oh, my God, I am so suffering" does not mean you are Gothic..!
    
    it just means you are whining..... or as princess says "you are wining".

    mermaid wrote on 06.11.2009 at 09:58

59. NW is as GOTHIC as the music you could hear in Tesco stores while doing shopping.. :-P

    mermaid wrote on 06.11.2009 at 09:59

60. 100% true. NW is not a gothic band. And they should not be associated, with this closet-fags movement.

    DeadAndGone wrote on 06.11.2009 at 10:32

61. My ears are bleeding.

    Jaussi wrote on 06.11.2009 at 11:31

62. MERMAID: It seems to me that you don't have a life outsite this website and Tarja Turunen's official website.

    Angel wrote on 06.11.2009 at 12:49

63. WELL THEN I REPEAT AGAIN : I was not saying that for the gothic part but for the ROCK one, and musically speaking, the songs are definetely inspired by the melodies of gothic rock

    Yva wrote on 06.11.2009 at 12:59

64. Angel,
    
    I have never ever been on Tarja´s official website... have too much things to do, so I can not affort more then have an ocassional look in here... and why would I go there anyway?
    
    But your slight hallucinations could be helped easily ... try to decrease the time spent in front of your PC... and do some sport instead.
    
    Then you will (I hope) stop to see me behind every corner.. :-P

    mermaid wrote on 06.11.2009 at 13:22

65. Yva,
    
    in your Tesco store they do play a gothic rock???
    How extraordinary, indeed...

    mermaid wrote on 06.11.2009 at 13:25

66. Minna,
    
    this is interesting ...
    
    so, my comment on Maestro´s pissing was childish... but his comment on his pissing - in an interview for a newspaper -
    
    was ADULT?
    
    Now, would you,please, explain me your concept of adulthood? I would like to understand... finally. Who can comment on pissing to be adult... and who is risking that his/her comment on the same pisssing would be considered by you CHILDISH?
    
    I actuallynever knew that childhood could be defined through the comments on pissing... but nevermind, we learn every day.
    
    Looking forward to your explanation - it willhelpme a lot!
    
    Thanks in advance.

    mermaid wrote on 06.11.2009 at 13:35

67. @ Legeon
    
    I wrote: "Most of the commentens have been written by pathetic people, in my OPINION. When the band kicked Tarja out, haters see Tuomas as an asshole. When they were fans of the band they didn't see him as an asshole. This is very interesting phenomenon. Would he have become an asshole if Tarja had left by her own will? She was going to do that."
    
    You wrote: "Actually the level of your stupidity is pathetic,and the fact that you judge people here without even knowing what they have said and admitted."
    
    So my quostion is: How did I judge people? I wrote how I felt and saw things. If you read my message again, you can find a word "opinion". It means did not said anything as if it was the absolute truth.
    
    Come on, people. The letter was given to Tarja FOUR years ago and you are still mad about that? If you didn't know, the band has already admitted that the way they kicked Tarja out was wrog. That should be enough. In my opinion, it's just childish to continue saying bad things about the band you have liked in the past. Dwelling in the past in futile.

    JesseFinn wrote on 06.11.2009 at 13:37

68. minna said:
    
    "If you were as famous as Tuomas, would you like to see people lurking inside you house when you come home? Or seeing journalists doing the same thing? "
    ______________________________________________
    Minna, wake up!
    
    Your beloved Maestro did it for you already ... he was so afraid that we would be missing all "privacy"of his life that he produced one hour long documentary.. with al details (maybe except of one) :-P
    
    this is a first part for you... hope you could manage to find the rest on your own.
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUepJI1xDvY
    
    So, what are you talking about? He clearly enjoys all this attention!

    mermaid wrote on 06.11.2009 at 13:42

69. Almagest said:
    
    "Yva: Have you ever listened to REAL gothic rock? That kind of stuff is NOT bright and easy-listening ... it is DARK! That's why it's called GOTHIC after all! xD "
    _______________________________
    Yva,
    
    would you be so kind as to tell us WHICH songs of WHICH gothic rock bands are you reffering to???
    
    Maybe, Almagest,
    
    she will surprise us... maybe she even knows what she is talking about..?
    Let us give her a chance,,
    

    mermaid wrote on 06.11.2009 at 13:51

70. @JesseFinn
    
    You are wrong.Tuomas recently said that he regrets nothing.
    
    And if you read this interview,you will see that they actually considered to do a joke to Anette in Hartwal,to have someone give her a letter on stage,as a joke.
    
    That doesn't seem like "regret" to me.

    Legeon wrote on 06.11.2009 at 16:28

71. JesseFinn wrote: " If you didn't know, the band has already admitted that the way they kicked Tarja out was wrog. That should be enough."
    
    What?!Only Emppu said that. Tuomas, Marco and Jukka never apologized for that. And why should we forgive them before they ask for it? I'm not Jesus.
    Show me your source where they APOLOGIZE for it openly - and not just something like "we're not proud of it", they already said that in the letter but they published it anyway - and admit that not everything in the letter was the truth, and I will forgive them. No problem.
    
    You also said: "When the band kicked Tarja out, haters see Tuomas as an asshole. When they were fans of the band they didn't see him as an asshole. This is very interesting phenomenon. "
    
    It doesn't exist. Most of us were fans when we read the letter. We became haters some timer AFTER we read it.
    
    Minna wrote:
    "It is close, yes, but it's not screaming. When Anette sings higher notes I can hear her voice break and that is definitely not screaming. When the band used to have Slaying the Dreamer in their setlist Anette used to scream the ending. Later Marco handled the ending alone. There's is a huge difference between screaming and singing higher by using normal singing voice, not classical voice."
    
    I don't really understand you, sorry. You say that Anette's voice is breaking when she sings higher notes, but you still call that singing?!A singer's voice shouldn't break.
    
    And she doesn't hit the high notes in many songs. Slaying the dreamer is a good example, but there are other youtube videos where she isn't able to sing other old NW songs, too. I didn't listen to all of them, of course, and maybe there are some better versions, but shouldn't NW's new singer be able to sing ALL of their old songs? (I exclude the Phantom of the Opera, since that's a cover song).
    
    "Metal can be bright. It as simple as that. And it's not news that musicians don't answer the questions. He has written only four songs so maybe he doesn't know yet what the result will be. The only thing we can do for now is to wait. "
    
    You didn't answer my question - why did he say that it's still going to be Metal in connection with the fact it's going to be brighter, if that isn't a contradiction in his opinion?
    And yes, it happens musicians don't answer some questions. But they always have a reason for that. And the reason can't be that he doesn't know, because even though he says now that that's still preliminary, he already stated in other interviews that he has a very accurate concept by now and that he has all the song titles and so on. So he DOES know whether it's going to be more or less poppy, at the very least.
    
    "I find CC more mainstream than DPP. There are at least five songs that sound very light. Musically. Lyrics are just one part of the song and they don't make it so much harder that music does. Tarja sings also much more poppy way than she did in Wishmaster and Oceanborn. Atmosphere is dark but not heavy. "
    
    A I said, I didn't want to start a discussion about that. But I want to answer to two things you wrote: You said lyrics don't make music harder, and that's true. But they can make it less mainstream. And I also can't believe you criticise Tarja's poppy singing while comparing CC to DPP, since Anette's singing on DPP is much more poppy than Tarja's on Century Child.
    
    But at least we agree about the dark atmosphere, and so we also agree he won't make a second CC since it isn't bright, right?
    
    "I have understood that Emppu has very dirty sense of humour. I would not be surprised if it was his idea. Or Marco's. None of us fans really knows the band members well so it's impossible to say for sure who's idea it was. "
    
    I don't think Emppu would come up with such a joke, because he is the one who said he didn't like the way they fired Tarja. So why should he of all people be the one who is now joking about that?
    And if you read my comments, you'll see I never excluded Marco. I also think it might have been his idea.
    
    "No, I don't think it would have been a good idea. It would have been more like inside joke. We don't know *how* seriously they considered the joke. If Marco had told about the joke first and said he considered it, would you have thought it was his idea? "
    
    I don't really understand what you're talking about, I never said it was Tuomas' idea, all I said was that I didn't think it were Emppu, Jukka or Anette. It might have been Ewo's idea, too.
    
    Again: I never criticised Tuomas for having that idea, but for considering to do it, and we KNOW he did. I don't know how serious they considered it, but Tuomas doesn't seem to be disgusted by the thought, all he says is that it's "a bit tasteless", and there's also the fact he even talks about that in an interview thinking it's funny. I criticised THAT, and I still think I was right to do that.
    
    If Marco had told about that in an interview, I would have criticised him, too, and I also would have said that it MIGHT have been his idea. I did the same here. Nothing more.
    
    "Well, my point was that it's not nice to call someone a copycat if he has same hobby (which he apparently started earlier). It's not very from adult. "
    
    You know that copycat thing came from a NNW-fan and that it was a joke? I agree it's not adult. But it wasn't meant as an insult.
    
    "He has admitted that he can satisfy all his musical perversions in Nightwish. I haven't heard he really has got pissed when someone has called DPP poppy. There are two or three lighter songs and the rest are harder. "
    
    I can give you the link to the interview, if you want to have it. It's on youtube, or at least it was some time ago, I can try to find it. And by the way, many NNW-fans were furious about the moderator who says he thinks it's quite poppy, they called him a stupid idiot who doesn't know anything about music.
    
    "I'm not offending anyone. I just don't get why people are still so agry at Tuomas and the rest of the band. Especially at Anette. She has done nothing wrong. She is just doing her best and if it's not enough you can always stop listening Nightwish. You are free to choose. Saying bad things just for fun is childish. I can't say I'm and adult, I'm only 19, but sometimes I feel very adult when I read comments like the very first message written by mermaid."
    
    You say you don't get why people are still angry, so I guess you understand why people were angry back then. Then tell me, why should we stop being angry? They never apologised. They never admitted that what was written in the letter was wrong. They still sell albums with MPG and BBB. The letter's still online, and many people who are new to NW read it, and consider Tarja as a stupid diva. I read a comment in the NW-forum just about a week ago where some fan wrote that whenever he/she introduces someone to NW's music he shows them the letter because they should know Tarja is a greedy diva!
    So, the other side is still allowed to spread lies and ruin Tarja's reputation without regret, but we aren't allowed to be angry about it for longer than a certain amount of time?
    
    About Anette: I'm not angry with her, but I don't think she does nothing wrong, I don't think she's perfect. What she's writing in her blog is stupid - well, I only read it once or twice, but that was more than enough and I didn't hear that it's getting better there. I'm not a fan of her singing, too, and I don't think she should haver her own website/merchandise/blog/solo album after just one album with NW. We're allowed to say that, aren't we?
    
    Of course nothing about the split is her fault, but nobody said that. I agree nobody should insult her meanly and I don't think you'll find a comment where I did that.

    Earwen wrote on 06.11.2009 at 16:47

72. @JesseFinn
    
    "The letter was given to Tarja FOUR years ago and you are still mad about that?"
    
    As a response,i will only post here what Earwen said,which is extremely true:
    
    "The letter's still online, and many people who are new to NW read it, and consider Tarja as a stupid diva. I read a comment in the NW-forum just about a week ago where some fan wrote that whenever he/she introduces someone to NW's music he shows them the letter because they should know Tarja is a greedy diva!
    So, the other side is still allowed to spread lies and ruin Tarja's reputation without regret, but we aren't allowed to be angry about it for longer than a certain amount of time? "

    Legeon wrote on 06.11.2009 at 18:36

73. Oh, I just saw I misunderstood this part:
    "When the band kicked Tarja out, haters see Tuomas as an asshole. When they were fans of the band they didn't see him as an asshole. This is very interesting phenomenon. "
    
    Well, why should we call him an asshole when there's no proof he is one? He proved it with that letter. Everything he did wrong before that - and we didn't even know everything, did we? - could just go as mistakes. That letter crossed the line and opened our eyes.

    Earwen wrote on 06.11.2009 at 18:59

74. @ Earwen
    
    Great comment!!!! I can agree with everything you said.
    Whenever I meet a Nightwish-fan in my daily life (doesn't happen that much XD ) and we talk about which "era" we like more (don't get me wrong. :D I'm not going straight to them and ask them directly which singer they prefer. But when you talk about NW you get to a certain point where this question appears :P )., they always they:
    "The new one with Anette!!!".
    When I ask them why they prefer the new one, they say something like "because Tarja was a greedy diva". And guess what?! They say it just because it is written in that fucking stupid letter.
    
    We still can be angry about NW.
    - They still perform "Bye Bye Beautiful". That's clearly an offence to Tarja.
    - They still make a fuss about their ex-singer, telling the whole world what a greedy bitch she was, etc. .

    Franziska wrote on 06.11.2009 at 19:04

75. Legeon. Tarja is no greedy diva anymore. Nightwish get payed in dollars and euros, wherever they play. Tarja get payed in rubels and other east european currencys. After all that´s where her main market is. I´ve read she couldn´t even sell out a small rock club in her native Finland. That proves she´s nobody without Nightwish. Exept for the romainians,,,,and perhaps for the serbs.

    Wrathchild wrote on 06.11.2009 at 19:44

76. @Legeon
    
    If that fan does it... than in my opinion he/she is silly !
    But the fact that you use that as an excuse to pursue the same
    behavior doesn't make you better. I think you you are an informed and intelligent guy , so i think you can do better than that.
    We should rise above all this crap between members and formers members of NW and just enjoy the music we love.
    You love Iron Maiden...well i respect you for that even though i dont like them . The fact i dont like Iron Maiden doesnt make them crap, and doesnt make you stupid... it just another kind of music and makes you an person with different tastes. In fact that can be the only difference between us two...who knows ? Right ?
    We can have different tastes and get along, can we ?
    
    We should all be happy that they keep on recording.
    People keep on bashing NW for doing an non metal album.
    But whats the problem with that ? No one it forced to listen to it. We can listen Iron Maiden or another band like Britney Spears right ?
    Some keep bashing Tuomas for not making metal music. But what about Tarja ? Is it metal ? NO ! But still love her for doing what the music she loves...
    Well lets us love all musicians for doing the music they love !
    Brighter , darker, pink, green,.... who cares ....there's enough for everyone.
    I read some comments like"whore","bitch" ,"ass" about Tarja, Anette, Tuomas, ...
    That kind of comments dont make you (those who use these kind of words) look cool, but childish.
    
    Sami said in this thread :
    "The comments here are getting more pathetic each day. :)"
    
    Well he is 100% correct in my opinion !
    Both sides, Tarja fan's+Old NW fans vs. Tuomas fan's+New NW fans are getting more pathetic each day.
    
    

    lmcb wrote on 06.11.2009 at 19:48

77. JesseFinn: It is NW and their fans who are dwelling in the past. They keep bashing Tarja. They keep playing and selling Tarja-bashing song(s) and have NEVER TAKEN BACK SQUAT that was claimed in her letter. There are still plenty of people who claim that Tarja is an arrogant diva and was spoiled by an evil Argentinian. The damage done to her reputation and possibly, career is permanent.
    
    I, too, am aware that the letter keeps being referenced when Tarja comes up in conversations with people who don't know her.

    Almagest wrote on 06.11.2009 at 20:28

78. Every tarja fan knows zit about music. When Anette says " more comfortable to my voice" tarja asslicker believes she means more "poppier" when she actually means a key closer to her natural voice. When Tuomas says the new album will be more "brighter" the Tarja assuckers believes he means more"easy listning". To all you Tarjas asswipers, learn about music before you make a comment. Fucking bunglers.

    Wrathchild wrote on 06.11.2009 at 21:31

79. Actually, the link to the open letter is lost in the news archive of nightwish.com, but their official bio is a piece of shit on that matter :
    
    "After the last concert, Tuomas, Emppu, Marco and Jukka fired Tarja Turunen, and her manager Marcelo Cabuli. The reason for this was because during the Once Tour their attitude and actions had turned out to be against almost all that Nightwish represents. As one may guess, the news of the firing was followed by an incredible sensation and hullabaloo. Once the nearly ridiculous fuss was finally starting to calm down in the end of 2005, Nightwish was able to look to the future and wait for an adequate singer to be found."
    
    Maybe someone should remove the links on wiki pages, a bit late though.... I'm not worry, Tuomas will find on his doorstep the pile of crap he put on Tarja's back....
    

    TT wrote on 06.11.2009 at 21:54

80. I think there's a deficit of maturity in certain people that keep on bashing Tarja, her husband,Tuomas,Anette, ...for no fair reason.
    
    Everybody is greedy at an certain point....
    I care about money who doesn't ?
    
    Does anyone work for no money at all ?
    Who wouldn't like to get a million Euros/Dollars yearly wage ?
    
    Does anyone here spread his wealth ?
    My wallet is a little bit light . Does anyone help me ? :))
    
    Tarja cares about money,Tuomas cares about money,
    Anette cares about money,...
    If they didnt should only get enough for their concert production needs. Do they ? NO . NONE OF THEM. They all love their new houses, their new cars, watches , gold necklaces, diamond rings, nice and fancy clothes,trips to foreign countrys,...
    Is there anyone who doesnt ?
    I am here waiting for them (Tarja ,Tuomas, Anette,...)to post my bank account number....
    
    If anyone here as a good heart i can post my bank account number.
    
    Now you should probably say that there's someone that was fired for supposedly beeing greedy...
    
    There's a letter from the band, and there's a response from Tarja's husband/manager...
    There are different facts on them. Who knows where is the truth ? Maybe halfway....
    
    "The damage done to her reputation and possibly, career is permanent." - MAYBE....but if she has talent as i believe she has she will be successfull in her new career.Whatever style she chooses to sing...even pop :))
    The letter was a bad move ? YES
    They should have keep things between them ? YES
    (There should have been confidenciality on her dismissal reasons.The letter and the later response only brought gossip,
    resentment, clash between fans, fans wars, hateful youtube videos,and half of the hateful comments here at MFF)
    Are some people here trying to do the same thing that they repudiate (damaging someone's reputation) ? YES
    
    Before looking at others faults we should first look at
    ourselves.

    lmcb wrote on 06.11.2009 at 22:49

81. @JesseFin
    
    You are pathetic and childish. But hey, you can't get upset by that, it's only my opinion, right?
    
    Please try to make some sense.
    
    @Wrathchild
    
    What is it with you not being able to write decent comments without dissing other people off and calling them names and saying that they don't understand anything about music and you understand everything? We actually have proof that you know nothing about metal. When you basicly said in some article that only big heavy metal names from the 80s are metal, and nothing else is, not word for word, but that's exactly what you meant. You are the one who doesn't understand anything about music here. And PLEASE grow up and start backing your comments up with facts, logical deduction and non biassed thinking, instead of by calling us asslickers and bunglers. If you are unable to do that, then you should just stfu and grow up.

    Jaussi wrote on 06.11.2009 at 23:20

82. @lmcb
    
    No, wrong place dude and failed point.
    Besides Tuomas wants that his music is still seen as metal, cause he didn't like when DPP was called poppy. :) So that's why people bash him, cause he is doing metal less and less, but wants to be thought about like true metal :)
    Turunen doesn't pretend she does 100% metal :)
    
    Wrathchild,
    we all know you are an idiot, but Tarja actually sold out London club during her last gig :)
    
    And don't you lecture other people about knowing music. You proved yourself several times you don't know anything about music at all :)

    Terry wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:00

83. @lmcb
    "Everybody is greedy at an certain point.... "
    
    How touching...only NW blamed another person in greediness very hard and bashed her for that in public! And now you, NNF fan try to pretend that there is nothing wrong, everybody is greedy, it is ok, don't touch them.
    Then if it is ok why the fuck NW tried to pose it like an awful awful deed? Lol, pathetic.
    Maybe you should write to your fav NW and tell them that it is totally ok when everybody is greedy and they should apologise in public for making drama out of someone's greediness, ah?
    
    

    Selma wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:06

84. lmbc, people here are only pointing out the obvious that other people seem to miss. The only one who is destroying the reputation of Tuomas, Marco Anette, and the band Nightwish are they themselves.

    Almagest wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:12

85. lmcb said: "Before looking at others faults we should first look at
    ourselves."
    
    Yep. And that's exactly what people here criticise in Tuomas et al.

    Almagest wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:14

86. Lol, nice joke Tuomas, did you and Co come up with it after your regular skull crumps from lots of booze? LOL

    Oceansold wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:16

87. @Wrathchild
    
    And perhaps you should change your source of info.
    
    Do you think that NW had been touring only in EU and USA?
    
    Let me remind you(or inform you,since you know nothing)that England doesn't have euros.

    Legeon wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:19

88. @lmcb
    
    It's different to just "work for money" than to do anything for money,and hunting only money,and being after only money.
    
    Think about it.
    
    Clothing sponsors,water contracts,selling old stage clothes(at least considering to).

    Legeon wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:22

89. Nightwish is degrading, alas. They became too mainstream and poppy and cheesy.

    Black Beauty wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:40

90. @lmcb
    
    "But the fact that you use that as an excuse to pursue the same behavior doesn't make you better."
    
    Please,understand what i was saying.I didn't try to excuse myself with this stupid guy's behavior.What i meant is that it isn't is that don't let go of the past,it's actually NW fans.And how can we forget it when Tuomas comes back in that,saying things like "we were planning to, you know before the last song, hire a postal officer or somebody dressed-up to bring a letter on stage to Anette and then she would open it on the stage, but we thought it would be a bit of tasteless joke".
    
    Or saying that he doesn't regret for what he did.How can we forget?
    
    
    "The fact i dont like Iron Maiden doesnt make them crap, and doesnt make you stupid.."
    
    No one calls people here "stupid" for what they listen to(except Wrathchild).We don't think NewNightwish Fans are stupid for liking NW or Anette,but for what they say and how they behave.
    What you say doesn't make much sense,you know.Anette for example is being mocked for not liking metal but in the same time getting rich and famous from being in a metal band,she is mocked for talking 24-7 about her clothes,showing off her new clothes and how much she spends on clothes.She is mocked for taking endless pics every day of herself(did i mention clothes?)in the mirror and posting them,she is mocked for showing things like flowers and her toe-nails in her blog,and of course for her endless superficial rants about peace and love when she actually spends all her money on clothes and not something more serious,and for not allowing "hate comments" on her blog but in the same time allows "hate comments" from her fans for the people that posted the above said "hate comments" about her.
    So,the people that support her are being called "stupid" for supporting such a person,not for liking her voice.
    
    Some keep bashing Tuomas for not making metal music. But what about Tarja ? Is it metal ? NO !"
    
    Well,Tuomas says that he makes metal.
    And yes,Tarja is metal.Not heavy metal,but is metal.
    And it seems that her next album will be more metal than the next NW album.
    
    "I read some comments like"whore","bitch" ,"ass" about Tarja, Anette, Tuomas, ...
    That kind of comments dont make you (those who use these kind of words) look cool, but childish. "
    
    I have never used such words.I am an intelligent woman(not guy :P),i can come up with better and more suitable words for these persons.I actually said that i don't agree with this kind of comments,like the "burn in hell" one.

    Legeon wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:41

91. Minna: Indeed, I don't like the Century Child album as much as their older albums, and I don't really like the way Tarja sings there (although part of the reason is that she had a cold and therefore does a lot of breathing and sniffing, which sounds pretty awful, and that not only does she restrain her voice, but also the production takes away much of her power, as on Once, which the much more operatic live performances prove). It was the beginning of the downfall. There are some good songs, but overall the album is far too safe and feels forcedly streamlined, especially in contrast with the dark atmosphere.
    
    If the album following OTHAFA had been along the lines of Amberian Dawn's The Clouds of Northland Thunder, I think everybody would have felt it to be real development. But this way, it was a watered-down, mushy, sweetened version of "dark" music without the edges of truly "dark" music.
    
    However, the superficially "harder"/"heavier", more Rammstein-inspired riffs and more "drama" and orchestra as well as "darker" themes don't make Once and DPP darker. If anything, the music becomes even MORE superficial and fluffy. "Wish I Had an Angel" may sound "hard", but it's also easy and has little substance. It is like a huge, impressive cannon firing pink cotton candy.
    
    As an aside, I don't believe when Tuomas says that epic longtracks are easier to do. In an interview, he said that doing Ghost Love Score felt like sticking several different songs together. But I can imagine that because they are more challenging, they are more fun to do as well, and the hard work that goes into them feels easier, especially when you get into a "flow", while he feels more frustration and agony with singles because writing them is something he is forced to do and which is boring. On the other hand, if he was forced to do six epic longtracks for the next album and wasn't allowed to do any other kind of songs, he might become bored with them, too. But the insinuation that a "poppier" style is a bigger challenge for an accomplished, experienced songwriter is bullshit, in my opinion. The freedom that epic longtracks offer and the relatively strict format of the radio single are both advantages and disadvantages.

    Almagest wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:44

92. "Are some people here trying to do the same thing that they repudiate (damaging someone's reputation) ? YES "
    
    If you mean people here bashing Anette,you will allow me to ask you something:
    
    ARE YOU INSANE?
    
    You try to say that some nicknames in a site saying things about Anette is the same thing with famous people repeat again and again for years that a woman is a greedy diva?
    
    btw,people here bash Anette based on what she does/says/posts.Based on facts.
    Actually Anette is the one that damages her own reputation.Every day,approximately 4-5 times per day.

    Legeon wrote on 07.11.2009 at 01:45

93. "Your beloved Maestro did it for you already ... he was so afraid that we would be missing all "privacy"of his life that he produced one hour long documentary.. with al details (maybe except of one) :-P"
    
    I'm not Minna but I'll answer anyways. I watched the document from tv. Twice. I recall it was year of 2006 or 2007. Tuomas did not have his house yet. Besides, his house is made of log wood and his parets' house is not made of log wood. You can see it from the documentary. And you can find his childhood home's address from the cover of Angels Fall First. That's why there was nothing to hide anymore since some weird fans have already visited his childhood home.
    
    "You are wrong.Tuomas recently said that he regrets nothing."
    
    Maybe he regretted it during the media circus but not anymore. Who knows?
    
    "What?!Only Emppu said that. Tuomas, Marco and Jukka never apologized for that. And why should we forgive them before they ask for it? I'm not Jesus.
    Show me your source where they APOLOGIZE for it openly - and not just something like "we're not proud of it", they already said that in the letter but they published it anyway - and admit that not everything in the letter was the truth, and I will forgive them. No problem."
    
    Calm down. I don't remember anymore which Finnish magazine it was that told the band said it was wrong. And I don't have the magazine anymore. I'm not asking you to forgive them but to stop whining. It doesn't change anything or make you sound wise. How do you know what is true in the letter and what is not?
    
    "It doesn't exist. Most of us were fans when we read the letter. We became haters some timer AFTER we read it."
    
    That's what I wrote. Haters see him as an asshole and when they were fans they did not see him as an asshole.
    
    "I don't really understand you, sorry. You say that Anette's voice is breaking when she sings higher notes, but you still call that singing?!A singer's voice shouldn't break."
    
    She did not call it singing.
    
    "shouldn't NW's new singer be able to sing ALL of their old songs? "
    
    There was time when Tarja could not sing Oceanborn songs. They were too high for her. And during Once tour she did not sing Dead Boy's Poem's ending (not at least in Romania). And in 2002 she did not sing the ending of Slaying the Dreamer (not at least in Summer Breeze festival). I don't know why but I find this very interesting. :)
    
    "You didn't answer my question - why did he say that it's still going to be Metal in connection with the fact it's going to be brighter, if that isn't a contradiction in his opinion?"
    
    None of us can see inside Tuomas' head so no one can answer your question.
    
    "A I said, I didn't want to start a discussion about that. But I want to answer to two things you wrote: You said lyrics don't make music harder, and that's true. But they can make it less mainstream. And I also can't believe you criticise Tarja's poppy singing while comparing CC to DPP, since Anette's singing on DPP is much more poppy than Tarja's on Century Child."
    
    Although you don't want to start a dicussion I can still write an answer. But anyways, I don't think that DPP is lyrically more maintream than CC. There are so many themes; desert, running away, school mocking, harem, islader, Stephen King, chidhood home, killig yourself etc. How many music albums has so many themes? CC is mainly about lost innocence.
    
    "I don't think Emppu would come up with such a joke, because he is the one who said he didn't like the way they fired Tarja. So why should he of all people be the one who is now joking about that?"
    
    Human mind can be veery strange. Especially a mind that you don't know personally.
    
    "You know that copycat thing came from a NNW-fan and that it was a joke? I agree it's not adult. But it wasn't meant as an insult."
    
    I saw it as a stupid joke.
    
    "I can give you the link to the interview, if you want to have it. It's on youtube, or at least it was some time ago, I can try to find it. And by the way, many NNW-fans were furious about the moderator who says he thinks it's quite poppy, they called him a stupid idiot who doesn't know anything about music."
    
    If you are talking about the Echo Awards interview, you don't have to give me the link. I have seen it and I did not see him get pissed (even though the interviewer was very irritating). If it's another, the please.
    
    "You say you don't get why people are still angry, so I guess you understand why people were angry back then. Then tell me, why should we stop being angry? They never apologised. They never admitted that what was written in the letter was wrong."
    
    I don't ask you to stop being angry but to stop whining. We don't know what happened inside the band. Everybody has picked their side and believe only those who they believe. The others are complitely wrong. Thatäs how I have understood.
    
    "They still sell albums with MPG and BBB. The letter's still online, and many people who are new to NW read it, and consider Tarja as a stupid diva. I read a comment in the NW-forum just about a week ago where some fan wrote that whenever he/she introduces someone to NW's music he shows them the letter because they should know Tarja is a greedy diva!"
    
    Of course they sell DPP. And it's not easy to remove songs from the album and I don't think it's necessary. Those songs tell how they feel. It doesn't mean they are truths. There might have been huge misunderstandings inside the band and no-one has never corrected them. Not even by now. Don't know why.
    
    "About Anette: I'm not angry with her, but I don't think she does nothing wrong, I don't think she's perfect. What she's writing in her blog is stupid - well, I only read it once or twice, but that was more than enough and I didn't hear that it's getting better there. I'm not a fan of her singing, too, and I don't think she should haver her own website/merchandise/blog/solo album after just one album with NW. We're allowed to say that, aren't we?"
    
    No one is forcing you to like her or her blog. There are still people who DO like her and what he writes. You have the right to have opinions.
    
    "Well, why should we call him an asshole when there's no proof he is one? He proved it with that letter. Everything he did wrong before that - and we didn't even know everything, did we? - could just go as mistakes. That letter crossed the line and opened our eyes."
    
    When I became a Nightwish fan in 2006 I was only 16 and read everything there was to read about the band and their history. Of course I read the letter and the book. After that I did not see anyone as an asshole, not the band or Tarja. Only humans. Everybody do mistakes and some of them cause deeper scars than you could have imagined.
    
    "When I ask them why they prefer the new one, they say something like "because Tarja was a greedy diva". And guess what?! They say it just because it is written in that fucking stupid letter."
    
    That is their problem if they don't think before judging.
    
    "We still can be angry about NW.
    - They still perform "Bye Bye Beautiful". That's clearly an offence to Tarja.
    - They still make a fuss about their ex-singer, telling the whole world what a greedy bitch she was, etc. ."
    
    - They haven't performed BBB since last December.
    - Show me your source about fussing about their ex-singer on nowadays. Please.
    
    "It is NW and their fans who are dwelling in the past. They keep bashing Tarja. They keep playing and selling Tarja-bashing song(s) and have NEVER TAKEN BACK SQUAT that was claimed in her letter. There are still plenty of people who claim that Tarja is an arrogant diva and was spoiled by an evil Argentinian. The damage done to her reputation and possibly, career is permanent."
    
    If some NW fans dwell in the past by bashing Tarja, so do some Tarja fans by bashing Nightwish.
    
    "Actually, the link to the open letter is lost in the news archive of nightwish.com, but their official bio is a piece of shit on that matter"
    
    I think this is the shit sentence of the text: 'The reason for this was because during the Once Tour their attitude and actions had turned out to be against almost all that Nightwish represents.' Am I right?
    
    "You are pathetic and childish. But hey, you can't get upset by that, it's only my opinion, right?"
    
    No, I don't get upset. I'm happy to get your feedback. I'll print that and put it on my wall so I can read it every morning. :)

    JesseFinn wrote on 07.11.2009 at 02:21

94. Okay.. why are you guys even here if you all hate this band?? I mean, can't any of you just MOVE ON??? I mean, you all just waste your time day after day here ranting on something that is just ridiculus! I seriously don't care if you hate Nightwish or not, but you guys keep arguing over the same stuff over and over again, and it's getting very old! And no, I am not an "Anette-lover" or "Tuomas-lover" as many of you claim that we are.
    
    It's okay to criticize and have an opinion, but you all are taking it WAY too far!

    Vern wrote on 07.11.2009 at 02:47

95. Ah, the more things change the more they stay the same, eh?
    
    Which in this context that basically means, "same shit, different pile."
    
    *yawns*

    CanuckFan wrote on 07.11.2009 at 02:57

96. Wow, that would have been incredibly tasteless. Makes me lose what shreds of respect I may have had left. I don't buy that whole letter non-sense about Tarja and Marcelo. I see that he still tries to hit back at Tarja in any subtle or not-so-subtle way he can. Wow...he's still stuck on her.
    
    She's doing well on her own and doesn't make remarks about them. That's what a professional does. Leave the past in the past. ^-^
    
    And if people really go on there and take that letter as 100% gospel then they are more lost than ever if they don't do their own bit of research regarding and come to their own conclusions about it. In my opinion Tuomas was/still is the only diva in Nightwish IMO. To me, it seems they were looking to push Tarja out anyway, regardless of that statement so they could become more main-stream and they used that as a reason and Tuomas capitalized on his jealousy of her husband/manager to do so as well.
    
    Anette, well she seems to be stuck on herself and her own thing more than NW. I don't read her blog but I've read enough of it to form that personal opinion of her.
    
    I'm not going to bash anyone here childishly or force my opinions down others throats but I do see that some find respecting differences of opinion to be difficult and feel that name-calling makes their arguments more valid and factual but that is very incorrect.
    

    Derbygirl84 wrote on 07.11.2009 at 05:22

97. Jaussi. Well someone has to make some balance when all you Tarjatalibans run riot.

    Wrathchild wrote on 07.11.2009 at 10:57

98. "No, wrong place dude and failed point.
    Besides Tuomas wants that his music is still seen as metal, cause he didn't like when DPP was called poppy. :) So that's why people bash him, cause he is doing metal less and less, but wants to be thought about like true metal :)
    Turunen doesn't pretend she does 100% metal :)"
    
    Nightwish has never been pure metal and the band has never said it is pure metal. But it's still metal. Every metal band has lighter songs even in the same album but one album doesn't make them less metal band. It's all their music and the music they play live. But this is just my humble opinion. :)
    
    "Wrathchild,
    we all know you are an idiot, but Tarja actually sold out London club during her last gig :)"
    
    The one who is calling someone an idiot it idiot himself/herself. Tarja might have sold out a club in London but not in Helsinki.
    
    "Yep. And that's exactly what people here criticise in Tuomas et al."
    
    Criticising, yes, but without knowing the real truth. No one knows what the truth is except the band, Tarja and the people around them. That's why it's pointless to bash anyone since we don't know what really happened.
    
    "Let me remind you(or inform you,since you know nothing)that England doesn't have euros."
    
    Wow, that was mean. At least the text in brackets.
    
    "Nightwish is degrading, alas. They became too mainstream and poppy and cheesy."
    
    Before of after Anette joined the band. Remember, the songs were almost recorded before the new singer was chosen.
    
    "What you say doesn't make much sense,you know.Anette for example is being mocked for not liking metal but in the same time getting rich and famous from being in a metal band,she is mocked for talking 24-7 about her clothes,showing off her new clothes and how much she spends on clothes."
    
    Only the mockers are stupid because they don't show how wise they are. Mocking is not wise.
    
    "Well,Tuomas says that he makes metal.
    And yes,Tarja is metal.Not heavy metal,but is metal.
    And it seems that her next album will be more metal than the next NW album."
    
    Well, I think DPP was more metal that Tarjas MWS. MWS was more like rock. It didn't have any hard songs. I mean metal hard, more like rock hard.
    
    "I have never used such words.I am an intelligent woman(not guy :P),i can come up with better and more suitable words for these persons.I actually said that i don't agree with this kind of comments,like the "burn in hell" one."
    
    I think the writer was talking in general. He/she didn't mean only you.
    
    "Indeed, I don't like the Century Child album as much as their older albums, and I don't really like the way Tarja sings there (although part of the reason is that she had a cold and therefore does a lot of breathing and sniffing, which sounds pretty awful, and that not only does she restrain her voice, but also the production takes away much of her power, as on Once, which the much more operatic live performances prove). It was the beginning of the downfall. There are some good songs, but overall the album is far too safe and feels forcedly streamlined, especially in contrast with the dark atmosphere."
    
    CC and Once tell the fact that Nightwish was trying to get rid of the opera trade mark. Tuomas mentioned this in a Finnish magazine before they released DPP.
    
    "As an aside, I don't believe when Tuomas says that epic longtracks are easier to do."
    
    I remember him saying that longer songs are easier to write because there is not length limit. Singles must be short and catching and those make them harder to write, I think. Tuomas said he worked with Nemo for months but GLS and TPATP were written in couple of days. That's quite a difference.
    
    "You try to say that some nicknames in a site saying things about Anette is the same thing with famous people repeat again and again for years that a woman is a greedy diva?"
    
    Please, tell me when was the last time the band called Tarja a greedy diva. Because I don't remember I have heard something like that in 3-4 years. That doens't mean they repeat and repeat it for years.

    Minna wrote on 07.11.2009 at 12:57

99. @ Legeon
    
    Nice points. You are right Tuomas indeed pretends that he makes metal. But he ignored that question about pop songs.:)
    
    And as for Tarja I wouldn't call her fully metal, she has elements of metal in her music, as well as classical music and soundtrack ambience. But she doesn't say that she is true metal, and she doesn't try to pose that if you don't like her music you are bad. And Tuomas tries to pose that everyone who doesn't like his mainstreaming and all he does are bad meanies.:)

    Xena wrote on 07.11.2009 at 14:36

100. @Vern
     
     I can't say for the others, but I don't hate this band. I hate Anette being the singer in this band.
     
     @Wrathchild
     
     Yes indeed, there's just too much common sense and intelligent reasoning here, of course we need someone as stupid as you to balance it up, how silly of me to not realize that before.

     Jaussi wrote on 07.11.2009 at 16:42

101. @Franziska: Again, thank you =)
     
     
     
     @Jessefinn:
     "Calm down. I don't remember anymore which Finnish magazine it was that told the band said it was wrong. And I don't have the magazine anymore. I'm not asking you to forgive them but to stop whining. It doesn't change anything or make you sound wise. How do you know what is true in the letter and what is not?"
     
     You said that it "should be enough" for us to stop being angry at them that they said publishing the letter was wrong, and then you can't even say where they said it? Great.
     
     "She did not call it singing."
     
     Yes, she did. She wrote "When Anette SINGS higher notes I can hear her voice break and that is definitely not screaming".
     
     "There was time when Tarja could not sing Oceanborn songs. They were too high for her."
     
     She couldn't even sing them properly when they were new, because she hadn't finished her studies yet, and she was very young back then. You said yourself "there was a time when she etc.". She kept on learning, I'm sure she could sing them now. Anette doesn't study singing and she'll never be able to sing a song like Stargazers with belting, no matter how much she improves.
     
     "None of us can see inside Tuomas' head so no one can answer your question."
     
     Well, I wrote what I think - that brighter will mean more poppy - and I could give you an explanation why I think so. But your only answer it "we don't know for sure", and that's isn't an argument. So that doesn't convince me I'm wrong.
     
     "Although you don't want to start a dicussion I can still write an answer. But anyways, I don't think that DPP is lyrically more maintream than CC. There are so many themes; desert, running away, school mocking, harem, islader, Stephen King, chidhood home, killig yourself etc. How many music albums has so many themes? CC is mainly about lost innocence."
     
     I only said that IN GENERAL lyrics can make music more mainstream. I don't think the lyrics on DPP are mainstream, even though I don't like them.
     
     "Human mind can be very strange. Especially a mind that you don't know personally."
     
     Again, the usual "we don't know for sure". Of course I don't know for sure it wasn't Emppu's idea, did I say so? No! I said that I THINK it wasn't Emppu's idea BECAUSE he was the only one who said he didn't like that they published the letter. I know that's my opinion and not the ultimate truth! If the only thing you can tall me is that, but no FACT that is in contradictory with my opinion, why do you write that at all?
     
     And I don't see why the minds of people I don't know are in general more strange than the ones of those I know.
     
     "I saw it as a stupid joke."
     
     And so did I. I wrote that because Minna complained about the joke. I don't have a problem with you answering to what I wrote to Minna (especially since she didn't answer herself :D) but please see my comment in it's context.
     
     "if you are talking about the Echo Awards interview, you don't have to give me the link. I have seen it and I did not see him get pissed (even though the interviewer was very irritating)."
     
     Yes, I was referring to that one. And if you saw that and didn't think Tuomas was getting pissed, then you're the first person I know who doesn't think so. And I'm not only talking about Anti-Fans, also about Tuomas-lovers.
     
     "I don't ask you to stop being angry but to stop whining. We don't know what happened inside the band. Everybody has picked their side and believe only those who they believe. The others are complitely wrong. Thatäs how I have understood."
     
     So you say basically I'm allowed to be angry as long as I don't express that on websites like this? Thank you very much, but there isn't only freedom of opinion but also freedom of speech, you know? I don't think there is a way I could complain about Tuomas' and Nightwish's behaviour here without people like you calling it "whining".
     
     But I love your sentence "everybody believe's only those who they believe." That's like "I'm writing here because I'm writing here". I'm really sorry I only believe those who I believe :D
     
     "Of course they sell DPP. And it's not easy to remove songs from the album and I don't think it's necessary. Those songs tell how they feel. It doesn't mean they are truths. There might have been huge misunderstandings inside the band and no-one has never corrected them. Not even by now. Don't know why."
     
     Correct me if I'm wrong, but NW published the letter in 2005. They published DPP in 2007. There are two years in between, but they still decided to publish MPG and BBB AND they performed BBB on stage for, I don't know, was it a year? And they never said that what the songs say is wrong and that they shouldn't have published them.
     
     Yes, I'm sure there were huge misunderstandings inside the band. But in my opinion there is NOTHING that gives ANYBODY the right to start a world-wide calumny against another person. And the fact that Tuomas already went to school with that person doesn't make it any better.
     
     "No one is forcing you to like her or her blog. There are still people who DO like her and what he writes. You have the right to have opinions."
     
     That's what I said. Minna wrote that "Anette had done nothing wrong" and I wrote that I don't think so and that I have the right to say so. =)
     
     "When I became a Nightwish fan in 2006 I was only 16 and read everything there was to read about the band and their history. Of course I read the letter and the book. After that I did not see anyone as an asshole, not the band or Tarja. Only humans. Everybody do mistakes and some of them cause deeper scars than you could have imagined."
     
     Nor Marcelo? But alright: Everybody makes mistakes, I agree. And I am willing to forgive anybody who admits a mistake and apologizes for it, as I said. But NW didn't.
     
     But if you are referring to the letter with your last sentence, I disagree: I'm sure Tuomas and Ewo knew what would come from it: Much media coverage that lasts for months and a permanent damage to both Tarja's and Marcelo's reputation. Every child could have told them that was what was going to happen!
     (And what's more, I think that was exactly what they wanted. But that's just an opinion, again.)
     
     "If some NW fans dwell in the past by bashing Tarja, so do some Tarja fans by bashing Nightwish."
     
     True. But again: We are only dwelling in the past because the others do. The day I won't find any Anti-Tarja comments on youtube, the NW-forum, several websites, interviews etc. I'll stop writing comments like this.But they won't stop.
     And your missing another point: our "bashing" is based on FACTS (that's why I wouldn't call it bashing) while Tarja-bashing is mostly based on the letter.

     Earwen wrote on 07.11.2009 at 17:12

102. @Mina
     
     Nice to see an obsessed NNF :) Lol Only it is not NW fan community here.
     
     "Nightwish has never been pure metal and the band has never said it is pure metal. "
     
     Actually Marco himself called NW metal and even ""melodic symphonic gothic metal." So, no they posed it as metal. Tuomas even at one point called it "heavy metal" band.
     So you are wrong.
     
     "The one who is calling someone an idiot it idiot himself/herself. Tarja might have sold out a club in London but not in Helsinki. "
     
     Poor thing. So you protect your fellow friend, support him and approve like he behaves here -and after that you think you can lecture others? Failed. London is more important place, btw, in terms of selling there a venue :)

     Terry wrote on 07.11.2009 at 18:59

103. "Before of after Anette joined the band. Remember, the songs were almost recorded before the new singer was chosen. "
     
     Although their music degradation started a bit earlier, but it progressed a lot and with such mediocre pop-like singer on vocals it only went and goes futher :)Alas :)

     Black Beauty wrote on 07.11.2009 at 19:03

104. @JesseFinn
     
     Privacy? What dicussion of privacy relating to Tuomas can be seriously taken after such picture of him (and some of the band, btw) were made to public knowledge?!
     
     http://uploadpicturesonline.com/viewer.php?file=ddp9biclgdpdlfbbkok6.jpg
     
     Lol, some privacy,lol If you want privacy-don't make such pics public and other stuff as well.
     
     "She did not call it singing "
     
     So then it means that she can't sing those notes at all. :) Well ,that's a fact. That's why she screams :) Screamer.
     
     "Haters see him as an asshole and when they were fans they did not see him as an asshole. "
     
     Well since he started acting publically like one and even recently does-revealing that joke of his - he gets what he gets, people see it. They didn't see him as asshole before, because he didn't act like one at that time in public- so there was no need in it.
     
     "There was time when Tarja could not sing Oceanborn songs. They were too high for her. And during Once tour she did not sing Dead Boy's Poem's ending (not at least in Romania). And in 2002 she did not sing the ending of Slaying the Dreamer (not at least in Summer Breeze festival). I don't know why but I find this very interesting. :) "
     
     Well, later she sang Oceanborn songs, but funny that NW members themselves find NOW it difficult to PLAY Oceanborn songs :) Lol
     BTW, Tarja SANG the ending at Summer Breeze festival in 2002:
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcTGbDzxeko
     And comparing to Olzon who just can't on regular basis sing live old songs at all and not only them, but some songs from DPP even, that really makes a poor picture.
     
     "If you are talking about the Echo Awards interview, you don't have to give me the link. I have seen it and I did not see him get pissed"
     
     No, he was pissed,besides he didn't agree that DPP was poppy while it is and tried to persuade it is metal :)

     Wilska wrote on 07.11.2009 at 19:35

105. Great, make next album even poppier Tuomas - specially with your pop-wannabe-singer it will be easy. :)

     NN wrote on 07.11.2009 at 19:37

106. Moreover, he pretends for the last 11 years, can you believe it ?! O_o What an amazing actor he is ! And he fooled so many people, as well...
     But, of course it was already suspicious, when they got rid, of the "opera trade mark" XD XD XD It was such a non-metal thing to do ! :-P
     
     Thank goodness, we have 15 yrs. old female, metal-experts around here, to tell us the truth. XD XD
     
     I fell blessed, and enlightened now... Peace /

     DeadAndGone wrote on 07.11.2009 at 19:38

107. If Tuomas can't piss on streets as much as he likes, why not piss at concerts on his fans, then? That is good PR besides his fans would be happy to dance under his "golden rain".
     
     And about this joke- poor Tuomas, he is still stuck on this whole thing, if he makes up such jokes in his mind or talks about them in interview.

     *** wrote on 07.11.2009 at 19:45

108. @DeadAndGone
     
     You do have a point in one remark - Tuomas is a great poser and whiner, likes to fake a lot stuff :)

     Wilska wrote on 07.11.2009 at 19:55

109. @DeadAndGone
     
     "the "opera trade mark" XD XD XD It was such a non-metal thing to do !"
     
     Someone has no freakin idea about symphonic metal(and power metal in general),but has the nerve to say that others know nothing...
     Learn your facts first,little kid.And when you learn enough about symphonic metal,come back.

     Legeon wrote on 07.11.2009 at 20:27

110. My God, Anette sounds freaking horrible.
     
     To the one who liked Emppu and Olzon in that video, here is a nice pic for you:
     
     http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5108/x2a23b4f6.jpg
     
     Emppu looks cute here,can't say it about it Anette though.
     
     The interview was great, we learned that Tuomas has a fad on this letter issue . He still talks about it :)

     Lesley wrote on 07.11.2009 at 21:12

111. Mermaid
     
     Quand on est con on est con
     
     I played in a band who played what was considered as gothic rock, I know what I am talking about. What is a Tesco store by the way ? Somethin very clever to say when you have nothing to say...
     
     I never said Nightwish was goth, learn to read...

     Yva wrote on 08.11.2009 at 00:38

112. @Minna
     "Criticising, yes, but without knowing the real truth. No one knows what the truth is except the band, Tarja and the people around them. That's why it's pointless to bash anyone since we don't know what really happened."
     
     I am so agree with you, but it´s hopeless to tell it to this people here...
     
     Because...You forgot some point:
     The NW and anette haters here are knowing ALL the truth story, because they are the wise guys..and can look through walls
     All the other people who are saying , -such both sides can make some mistakes we all didn´t see, because we only knows the official side of the story, and not the INOFFICIAL, and want to hear the old and the new songs from NW -
     All this people are only dump Anettelovers and anette Blog readers(lol, I think only mermaid is reading her uninterestet Blog, because she is a secret anetteFan ;-) )
     and they
     are searching for foul explanations for NW ...so the Tarjalovers says......;-)
     ---
     Some here are trying to look at both sides,(Earwen) and find more mistakes at Tuomas sides, thats ok, because he makes mistakes(the letter was a big one of it)
     But some here are blind Tarjalovers and bitter souls, and they can´t accept the NNW..thats ok , too!
     But why in hell this people coming every day an this thread to read NEWS from a band that is so bad in their opinion??
     Only to stalk and to mock...sad, really sad..
     It´s an endless story..and in all new threads here I read the same words and the same shit since weeks...month...years....
     Booooooring!!!!!!
     Come on people bring some news here..and no old rotten stories...
     
     OH..and some one here said..this thread is not only for NW Fans...
     thats right..but this thread isn´t only for NW mockiers, too!!!
     
     If Tuomas said the new songs will be brighter..Perhaps it can be, that are not so bitter songs like MPG ore TPATP..
     or BBB
     such friendlier ..is this really wrong???
     
     
     I hope this new album comes earlier as they told us...
     I want to hear it...NOW!!! ;-) I am curios of it!!
     
     
     
     
     

     celisajan wrote on 08.11.2009 at 12:08

113. Jaussi. So you admit you´re not so bright. Strong thing to do. Kudos to you.

     Wrathchild wrote on 08.11.2009 at 12:49

114. @celisajan
     
     "But why in hell this people coming every day an this thread to read NEWS from a band that is so bad in their opinion??
     Only to stalk and to mock...sad, really sad..
     It´s an endless story..and in all new threads here I read the same words and the same shit since weeks...month...years.... "
     
     And why do you come to these threads almost every day if you don't like comments here-only to complain and whine that people are not blind NNW fans and don't drool over New NW all the time? Only to stock and to complain? That's really sad, and since you've already revealed yourself as a big NNW fan and Olzon's fan, who start the buzz only when it comes to NNW and Olzon, your attempts to sound SO objective is pointless. You are not better.
     
     "Come on people bring some news here..and no old rotten stories... "
     
     Really? I'd like to remind you that in this interview Mr. Holopainen brought up "old rotten" story" himself, by telling about this stupid souless joke with the letter. So who is bringing up the past? NW themselves.
     
     "If Tuomas said the new songs will be brighter..Perhaps it can be, that are not so bitter songs like MPG ore TPATP..
     or BBB
     such friendlier ..is this really wrong??? "
     
     And he also didn't answer the question about pop songs :) That is very funny indeed.
     
     "All the other people who are saying , -such both sides can make some mistakes we all didn´t see, because we only knows the official side of the story, and not the INOFFICIAL, and want to hear the old and the new songs from NW - "
     
     NW did much more mistakes, in public, starting with the pathetic letter, hiring this kind of singer they have now and so on and so forth :) People understand that.
     
     
     
     
     

     Orion wrote on 08.11.2009 at 13:40

115. @Earwen
     You know, actually even one little mention in some mag that the letter wasn't such a good idea and was wrong, is not a real apology. The real apology would be pubishing a real letter of apology on the offical NW site - then that would count as a real apology. :)

     D'oh wrote on 08.11.2009 at 14:16

116. Man, I'm trying to write in a friendly way but all I get back is truculent answers... Makes me sad.
     
     Anyways.
     
     "I hate Anette being the singer in this band."
     
     You should hate the boys of the band, not Anette.
     
     "Yes indeed, there's just too much common sense and intelligent reasoning here, of course we need someone as stupid as you to balance it up, how silly of me to not realize that before."
     
     This is what I call offending. :)
     
     "You said that it "should be enough" for us to stop being angry at them that they said publishing the letter was wrong, and then you can't even say where they said it? Great."
     
     Listen, you don't have to stop being angry. You have the right. But you can't espect me to remember everything. :)
     
     "Yes, she did. She wrote "When Anette SINGS higher notes I can hear her voice break and that is definitely not screaming"."
     
     Hmm. Interesting. I did'nt know that 'breaking voice = screaming'. I understood you guys mean she screams with meaning. :)
     
     "She couldn't even sing them properly when they were new, because she hadn't finished her studies yet, and she was very young back then. You said yourself "there was a time when she etc.". She kept on learning, I'm sure she could sing them now. Anette doesn't study singing and she'll never be able to sing a song like Stargazers with belting, no matter how much she improves."
     
     Anette is taking singing classes. I don't know if it means in your culture 'no studying'. :) Tarja and the band were still new when Oceanborn came out and now Anette is new. It's quite a same thing. Give her time and she will learn to sing the songs in her own way. I have faith in her since she just a human being. It's not right to espect her to be able to sing everything immediately. Especially when she did not have time to take a lot of singing classes because of touring.
     
     "And I don't see why the minds of people I don't know are in general more strange than the ones of those I know."
     
     They are strange because you don't know for sure how they think. Or how often they change their mind. People can give diffenrent kind of pictures of themselves.
     
     "Yes, I was referring to that one [Echo Awars interview]. And if you saw that and didn't think Tuomas was getting pissed, then you're the first person I know who doesn't think so. And I'm not only talking about Anti-Fans, also about Tuomas-lovers."
     
     I see Tuomas just smiling and saying something like "I have to disangree with that but we all have our opinions". And then he laughs. I don't see from his eyes that he gets pissed. And yes, I watched the interview just a minute ago. ;) But this is how I interpreted the interview.
     
     "So you say basically I'm allowed to be angry as long as I don't express that on websites like this? Thank you very much, but there isn't only freedom of opinion but also freedom of speech, you know? I don't think there is a way I could complain about Tuomas' and Nightwish's behaviour here without people like you calling it "whining"."
     
     Of course you can share you opinions if it makes you feel better. "Letting out some steam", I can understand that. But does it change anything? No. Does it make anyone sound or look better or worse person? No. ^^
     
     "But I love your sentence "everybody believe's only those who they believe." That's like "I'm writing here because I'm writing here". I'm really sorry I only believe those who I believe :D"
     
     Wow, I didn't even notice I wrote like that. Ah well, English is not my first language and my skills suck so I'm not surprised. x)
     
     "Correct me if I'm wrong, but NW published the letter in 2005. They published DPP in 2007. There are two years in between, but they still decided to publish MPG and BBB AND they performed BBB on stage for, I don't know, was it a year? And they never said that what the songs say is wrong and that they shouldn't have published them."
     
     You know Tuomas. He expresses himself by writing songs. Those songs tell how he felt so they don't tell any kind of truths. I'm curious, what do you think is wrong in the songs? What parts of the lyrics? They stopped playing BBB live because Anette and Marco did not want to sing it anymore. They felt it was a bit corny to perfrom it, which I can understand.
     
     "Yes, I'm sure there were huge misunderstandings inside the band. But in my opinion there is NOTHING that gives ANYBODY the right to start a world-wide calumny against another person. And the fact that Tuomas already went to school with that person doesn't make it any better."
     
     I think those misunderstandings happened just because the communication sucked. It's sad. They could have though the of letter over a bit more but even if they did not published it they would have had to talk about it in interviews and tell their pint of view. And people could still find many of those interviews from Internet. A public letter and those inteviews have many things in common. :/
     
     "Nor Marcelo? But alright: Everybody makes mistakes, I agree. And I am willing to forgive anybody who admits a mistake and apologizes for it, as I said. But NW didn't."
     
     Ah, forgive me. :( I forgot the whole man exists.. Anyways, I bet many haters would not have forgiven NW if they had apologized because that doesn't change the fact that the letter still exists and is found from the Internet. I'm not saying you are one of them. There are many kinds of people in the world and if one forgives that doesn't mean someone else forgives. Some people never forgive. I recall Tarja was ready to forgive but not to forget. I understand her.
     
     "But if you are referring to the letter with your last sentence, I disagree: I'm sure Tuomas and Ewo knew what would come from it: Much media coverage that lasts for months and a permanent damage to both Tarja's and Marcelo's reputation. Every child could have told them that was what was going to happen!
     (And what's more, I think that was exactly what they wanted. But that's just an opinion, again.)"
     
     I remember Tuomas talking about "a dagger rain" when one of the first interviewers asked what he is going to do next now that the letter is public. But that's all, I did not care about NW yet when the media circus started and I ignored all news about them. All I though was "what a drama because of one letter and one band". I did not know any details or what was in the letter. But this is just my story.
     
     I don't get why the band would have wanted to cause that kind of media circus. None of the band members have said they hate Tarja.
     
     "True. But again: We are only dwelling in the past because the others do. The day I won't find any Anti-Tarja comments on youtube, the NW-forum, several websites, interviews etc. I'll stop writing comments like this.But they won't stop.
     And your missing another point: our "bashing" is based on FACTS (that's why I wouldn't call it bashing) while Tarja-bashing is mostly based on the letter."
     
     That dwelling is and endless circle, unfortunately. I think it would be smart to be the first one to stop bashing. To start closing the circle. I would pointless, though. Maybe.
     
     "Actually Marco himself called NW metal and even ""melodic symphonic gothic metal." So, no they posed it as metal. Tuomas even at one point called it "heavy metal" band.
     So you are wrong."
     
     I think Marco ment it's hard to categorize Nightwish since their albums include "a wide selection". Every album is different. The biggest difference might happened between Wismaster and CC. Tarja changed her album singing style, Marco joined the band and they started to use real orcestras. I can imagine some fans were shocked.
     
     "Poor thing. So you protect your fellow friend, support him and approve like he behaves here -and after that you think you can lecture others? Failed. London is more important place, btw, in terms of selling there a venue :)"
     
     Nightwish performed three shows in London in 2008. The dates were 25.3, 26.3 and 27.3. Two of them were sold out and the third was almost sold out. Not bad, eh? :) I'm happy that Tarja sold out a club too. She deserves success.
     
     "Although their music degradation started a bit earlier, but it progressed a lot and with such mediocre pop-like singer on vocals it only went and goes futher :)Alas :)"
     
     Well, I think that DPP is a bit more easy-listening compared to older albums. I feel like that. To tell the truth, I have never learnt to like Tarja's voice, alas. I don't know why. I like Tarja as a person, she has such a happy nature and so does Anette. That's why I like them both as persons but I prefer Anette's voice. This is a matter of taste. :)
     
     "Privacy? What dicussion of privacy relating to Tuomas can be seriously taken after such picture of him (and some of the band, btw) were made to public knowledge?!
     
     http://uploadpicturesonline.com/viewer.php?file=ddp9biclgdpdlfbbkok6.jpg
     
     Lol, some privacy,lol If you want privacy-don't make such pics public and other stuff as well."
     
     It seems that picture was taken about 7 years ago since Tuomas doesn't have a beard yet. Posing in pictures by your own will and being surrounded by hungry journalist are two different things. Everyone has a right to domestic peace. I don't know about your country but here in Finland it's against the law to break domestic peace. Please, don't start a fight.
     
     "Well since he started acting publically like one and even recently does-revealing that joke of his - he gets what he gets, people see it. They didn't see him as asshole before, because he didn't act like one at that time in public- so there was no need in it."
     
     That's is your opinion about the joke being his idea. No one in the band has said whose idea it was so it's no use to assume it's Tuomas' just because he tells about it first. He used word "we " so it could have been anyone. :) I heard the letter joke first from Marco in Hartwall Areena gig but I did not think whose idea it was since he used the word "we", too. Oh, and btw, that gig was magical. I cried at the end of the gig because I was just so damn happy.
     
     An asshole would have shouted his opinions about the letter in interviews but Tuomas acted very adult. This is how I see things. I don't think it makes me an asshole.
     
     "Well, later she sang Oceanborn songs, but funny that NW members themselves find NOW it difficult to PLAY Oceanborn songs :) Lol
     BTW, Tarja SANG the ending at Summer Breeze festival in 2002:
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcTGbDzxeko
     And comparing to Olzon who just can't on regular basis sing live old songs at all and not only them, but some songs from DPP even, that really makes a poor picture."
     
     I reacall only Tuomas has admitted he can't play most of Oceanborn songs ans he said it's lack of training. I understand him. After getting home for a vacation from a long tour anyone would like to just rest.
     
     Watch the Summer Breeze again. Tarja turn her head from the microphone when se should be singing. So the "aaaaa" parts came from playback. I believe she sings that part for example in End of an Era by herself, though.
     
     "No, he was pissed,besides he didn't agree that DPP was poppy while it is and tried to persuade it is metal :)"
     
     Like I said earlier, he says that we all have our opinions. He and the rest of the band thinks it's metal and the interviewer, you and some other people think it's poppy. ;)
     
     "Thank goodness, we have 15 yrs. old female, metal-experts around here, to tell us the truth. XD XD"
     
     I'm enjoying my last two moths as a "teenager" before my age starts with a new number. :)
     
     "Really? I'd like to remind you that in this interview Mr. Holopainen brought up "old rotten" story" himself, by telling about this stupid souless joke with the letter. So who is bringing up the past? NW themselves."
     
     If Tuomas brough and old rotten story, why don't you guys want to be better? :)
     
     "And he also didn't answer the question about pop songs :) That is very funny indeed."
     
     Oh, poopy. What a crime. I have done few interviews in my life and every interviewee did the same thing with at least one question. I had to ask the questions again and I wonder why Terrorizer's journalist did not do the same thing.
     
     "NW did much more mistakes, in public, starting with the pathetic letter, hiring this kind of singer they have now and so on and so forth :) People understand that."
     
     Tuomas, Jukka, Marco and Emppu are happy with Anette. That is the most important thing; the band chooses a singer THEY like and with whom they can WORK. Singing comes after. It's no use to have a singer who has a perfect voice but with whom they can't co-operate. Right? :)
     
     ----------
     
     Ah well. We've got snow here in Finland, a bit wet but it's ok, so I'm heading out with my dog. Have fun! <3

     JesseFinn wrote on 08.11.2009 at 17:30

117. it's sad to think many great artists can be true assholes at a human level, it's clear Tuomas & Co. will never apologize, they prefer to rub it in instead, such muddy lost souls...

     :) wrote on 08.11.2009 at 19:13

118. "You should hate the boys of the band, not Anette."
     
     I think I put it up bad. What I meant was, I hate the fact that Anette is a singer in this band.

     Jaussi wrote on 08.11.2009 at 19:54

119. Yahoo, the comments here are funnier to read than the interview itself, honestly! I never knew so much inside things of Nightwish, I'm just a fan who listens t their music and I'd rather remain one - I don't like what I learned about them so far..
     I want to naively believe that a cool rock (or metal) band is just a group friends who are enjoying themselves by making and perfirming their music together but that's obviously not the case with Nightwish..
     
     ...Hm... from what I read here... Should I consider that I'm not the only one who sees as a genius marketinng strategy the fact that Tarja got the sack "by meer coincidence" after the concert that was supposed to be Nightwish's first dvd??

     VIKING wrote on 08.11.2009 at 21:18

120. "I think I put it up bad. What I meant was, I hate the fact that Anette is a singer in this band."
     
     There are people who love Anette and are very happy that the boys chose her. You have the right to hate that she is a singer and they, includin me, have the right to love her. The fact is that it's impossible to please everyone and the boys wanted a singer THEY like and that is the most important thing. ^^

     Talven sydän wrote on 08.11.2009 at 21:26

121. Tuomas,Marco,Anette ..the whole....and Tarja are humans..
     not machines..
     Humans have feelings, emotions, problems, they have good times and they have bad times..and they makes mistakes...
     But in my opinion: Tuomas write and play good musik..Anettes voice is not like Tarjas voice, but she can sing by her way...
     perhaps the new songs are poppier than the old.. i don´t think this is a problem..no one in this band give a promise to create musik only in one way...the first songs from NW wasn´t metal ,too..
     When I like the sound, than its good for me
     and when I dislike it..I stop hearing it..
     I can´t believe , that so much people here are so angry about the privat problems of people who arent their personal friends...
     This thing between Tuomas and Tarja isn´t our problem..
     Tuomas must life with this story..and Tarja must life with it,too..and it seems both of them have a good live...!!
     at 2005 Tarja it was hard for her( I totally agree) and Tuomas make a big mistake with this letter..but now 2009 Tarja has her own solocareer and Tuomas has a new singer!! both of them have their own problems and their own success
     And privacy..is a personal right..for ALL human!!!
     So Tuomas has the right to let people in his privat life, he want´s to let in, and don´t let people in his privat life, he don´t want´s to let in ...
     
     @JesseFinn
     
     In germany its grey and it rains... :-(
     I dream to come to finland :-)
     
     
     

     celisajan wrote on 08.11.2009 at 21:42

122. @ JesseFinn: I agree with some of what you say but I am getting a bit tired of hearing this argument....
     
     You said: ?Anette is taking singing classes. I don't know if it means in your culture 'no studying'. :) Tarja and the band were still new when Oceanborn came out and now Anette is new. It's quite a same thing. Give her time and she will learn to sing the songs in her own way. I have faith in her since she just a human being. It's not right to espect her to be able to sing everything immediately. Especially when she did not have time to take a lot of singing classes because of touring.?
     
     When Marco was asked about the selection of a new singer, here is what he said:
     ?It was really funny because I think we got over 2,000 demoes and we basically listened to all of them. I think I listened to something like 700 myself. What I found out was there were like a lot of potential singers, a lot of good singers, but people who were still wet behind the ears. So, in order to grow into the band they would need like one or two albums and probably would have done well after that. But of course we wanted to have somebody who would have the sounds down immediately.?
     
     Interview... Here --> http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/interviews/marco_hietala_of_nightwish_i_was_a_metal_freak_from_the_beginning.html
     
     So... What exactly are we waiting for? The band apparently expected her to sing well immediately, so why can't we?... If she was supposed to sound good from the beginning, why are we giving her another album to prove herself? Yes, she has been improving, but until she stops screeching her way through the higher notes I'll probably be avoiding the Nightwish concerts and listening to the instrumental version of DPP that the band has so kindly provided.
     
     I'm not sure how much studying she's doing, though. She's mentioned some CD's but I don't think she actually has a singing teacher or goes to any 'classes'. According to the poem that she wrote about herself way back when, she never listened to her teachers when she was growing up. She did her own thing and, in her own words, she continued to scream. Seriously, she said it herself that she screamed. And she still screams and does her own thing now and won't take advice from anyone about her voice. So how can someone, who never bothered to listen and learn from their teachers and elders, be good at what they do? It doesn't really mesh in my mind... And another thing...
     
     "Tuomas, Jukka, Marco and Emppu are happy with Anette. That is the most important thing; the band chooses a singer THEY like and with whom they can WORK. Singing comes after. It's no use to have a singer who has a perfect voice but with whom they can't co-operate. Right? :)"
     
     Bingo! You're absolutely right! :) However... Anette is not easy to work with. I think she even admitted this herself, that she gets bitchy and yells at them to leave her alone when she's having her mood swings and expects them to just deal with it. It was in one of the more recent interviews, if I remember correctly, and she didn't sound sorry about this at all when she was talking about it. Not sure if I'd like to work with someone like that... I have no idea how they put up with this.

     Tainted~ wrote on 08.11.2009 at 22:06

123. @JesseFinn
     "I think Marco ment it's hard to categorize Nightwish since their albums include "a wide selection". Every album is different."
     
     Stil they called it and posed it like "metal", they didn't call it something else. So being hard to categorize has nothing to do with this thing since according to NW themselves it was metal :)
     
     "Nightwish performed three shows in London in 2008. The dates were 25.3, 26.3 and 27.3. Two of them were sold out and the third was almost sold out. Not bad, eh? :) "
     
     Well, New NW also did lots of gigs which according to their web-page (where it is always marked if the concert is sold out or not as I understand) were not sold out at all. :) So such things happen from their side as well:)

     Terry wrote on 08.11.2009 at 22:20

124. "Hmm. Interesting. I did'nt know that 'breaking voice = screaming'. I understood you guys mean she screams with meaning. :) "
     
     Breaking voice=inability to sing properly :). No, she screams without meaning, she screams cause she can't sing those notes and her voice is too weak and flat for it.
     
     "Anette is taking singing classes. I don't know if it means in your culture 'no studying'. :) . "
     
     She is a bit too old to learn to sing properly now, specially the material which doesn't fit her voice and requires more power, cause age (aging) affects the state of the voice (voice cords) as well as the whole body (organism).There won't be really big improvement.
     
     "I see Tuomas just smiling and saying something like "I have to disangree with that but we all have our opinions". And then he laughs. I don't see from his eyes that he gets pissed. "
     
     You don't have to shout and rool eyes when you are pissed :) It is obvious he didn't like it, was pissed and tried to prove something else.
     
     "I think those misunderstandings happened just because the communication sucked. "
     
     Well, it is not good still- since also it ended for their singer in hiring manager, assistant and even a life-coach very fast :)
     
     "I don't get why the band would have wanted to cause that kind of media circus. None of the band members have said they hate Tarja. "
     
     PR is always PR- more attention to the band and it works and PR is always easy, specially a scandal. Besides they wanted to look like victims in that and posed them like it. And don't be naive, they don't to have to say straight that they hate her :) Those things can be done indirectly with hints.
     
     
     "That dwelling is and endless circle, unfortunately. I think it would be smart to be the first one to stop bashing. To start closing the circle. "
     
     Well ,as soon as NNF stop doing that on forums, youtube, fan communities and so on, then we follow their example ;) (That includes stop calling first singer a diva based on letter).
     
     "It seems that picture was taken about 7 years ago since Tuomas doesn't have a beard yet. Posing in pictures by your own will and being surrounded by hungry journalist are two different things. Everyone has a right to domestic peace. "
     
     Well, if such nude pics were taken and made public, if such person once allowed a tour around his home (his first home) no matter if fans already knew about it or not, if in their documentaries band (including this person) is showed heavily drunk all the time, making toilet and fart jokes, his sudden worries about "privacy" are very exaggerated and hardly he should be very surprised that journalist will go for him a lot-cause he himself made everything to be an easy target.
     
     "That's is your opinion about the joke being his idea. No one in the band has said whose idea it was so it's no use to assume it's Tuomas' just because he tells about it first. He used word "we " so it could have been anyone. "
     
     Well, the original letter was his idea surely and he put his signature first to it, so it is logical such joke would be his idea either. Besides, if Marco was the one who refused to sing BBB live cause it was corny, hardly he would be the first in line to come with such joke with letter -cause it is even more corny and stupid ;) Revealing such joke was very immature, also planning it as well - the thing that this joke wasn't performed doesn't make it better, cause Tuomas let know about it out loud.
     My friends were not impressed by Hartwall at all ;)
     
     "I reacall only Tuomas has admitted he can't play most of Oceanborn songs ans he said it's lack of training."
     
     Yeah, that is trully funny, the lowering of musical skills. :) Not good.
     
     "Watch the Summer Breeze again. Tarja turn her head from the microphone when se should be singing. So the "aaaaa" parts came from playback. "
     
     She doesn't turn her head starting 4:02, sings directly to the mic, so it is not playback, sorry.

     Wilska wrote on 08.11.2009 at 22:52

125. Ah, that explains everything- you just never liked the first singer's voice :) So of course you will defend NNW, Olzon, and say how much of perfection they are. The Old era was never appealing to you since you didn't like the voice singing in it , you of course couldn't fully embrace it all.
     Typical NNF, nothing more :)
     
     DPP is not only more easy-listening, but both more mainstream and poppy :)

     Black Beauty wrote on 08.11.2009 at 23:01

126. "If Tuomas brough and old rotten story, why don't you guys want to be better? :) "
     
     So, if Tuomas after 4 years still brings up this story, in the form of such stupid joke and openely tells that to media, we should ignore it , not comment it and pretend that everything is alright ? Maybe we should even thank him for it, lol? Sorry no, that a lame position. If we would be silent about his bringing up the whole story again, that means we give our silent approval of it -and we won't.
     
     "Oh, poopy. What a crime. I have done few interviews in my life and every interviewee did the same thing with at least one question. "
     
     It would be smarter of him to answer it, not to try to avoid it in such manner- if he indeed doesn't plan a more poppy stuff, he would just say that. Simple. But he didn't.
     
     "Tuomas, Jukka, Marco and Emppu are happy with Anette. That is the most important thing; the band chooses a singer THEY like and with whom they can WORK. Singing comes after. It's no use to have a singer who has a perfect voice but with whom they can't co-operate. Right? "
     
     It is better to have singer who is easy to work with and who has a very good voice for this type of singing material.
     But she hasn't that kind of voice and she is not so easy to work with as it turned out, there were already many problems in the band, just withint 2 years :)
     
     @celisajan
     "I can´t believe , that so much people here are so angry about the privat problems of people who arent their personal friends... "
     
     NW via this famous letter exposed their and someone's private things (life) and matters to the whole world, well, mostly their first singer's ones :) They started that machine of digging in someone's personality -so they are getting now the taste of their own medicine.

     Orion wrote on 08.11.2009 at 23:18

127. JesseFinn wrote: "Hmm. Interesting. I did'nt know that 'breaking voice = screaming'. I understood you guys mean she screams with meaning. :) "
     
     I didn't say that "breaking voice" means screaming. I said that in my opinion she screams higher notes, and independent from that I answered to Minna who wrote that Anette's voice breaks at higher notes and still called that singing, while in my opinion a singer's voice shouldn't break, as I wrote.
     
     "Anette is taking singing classes. I don't know if it means in your culture 'no studying'. :) Tarja and the band were still new when Oceanborn came out and now Anette is new. It's quite a same thing. Give her time and she will learn to sing the songs in her own way. I have faith in her since she just a human being. It's not right to espect her to be able to sing everything immediately. Especially when she did not have time to take a lot of singing classes because of touring. "
     
     In "my culture" there is a difference between "studying" something, like, you know, on university and just "learning" something, like taking singing lessons. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I'm not a native speaker, too ;-)
     But Tarja studied classical singing, while Anette is only learning singing using belting. To that, she is new to NW, but she already sang in other bands for many years. So she is new in a different way than Tarja was back then. I don't think she will improve as much as Tarja did.
     
     To that, the guys said they chose her also because she wouldn't need time. Tainted~ posted the link.
     
     "I see Tuomas just smiling and saying something like "I have to disangree with that but we all have our opinions". And then he laughs. I don't see from his eyes that he gets pissed. And yes, I watched the interview just a minute ago. ;) But this is how I interpreted the interview. "
     
     Well, alright, think whatever you want. I don't think his laugh or his smile is honest and I really don't understand how anybody can think Tuomas doesn't have a problem with those questions, but alright.
     
     "Of course you can share you opinions if it makes you feel better. "Letting out some steam", I can understand that. But does it change anything? No. Does it make anyone sound or look better or worse person? No. ^^ "
     
     I didn't say so, did I? I'm not writing here because I want people to think I'm a good person.
     
     "You know Tuomas. He expresses himself by writing songs. Those songs tell how he felt so they don't tell any kind of truths. I'm curious, what do you think is wrong in the songs? What parts of the lyrics? They stopped playing BBB live because Anette and Marco did not want to sing it anymore. They felt it was a bit corny to perfrom it, which I can understand. "
     
     No, as it happens, I don't know Tuomas. And you reminded me people are very strange so maybe he doesn't only want to express his feelings :D
     Uhm, alright. Yes, Tuomas wrote these songs because he wanted to express his feelings after the split, which was in 2005. But he decided to *publish* these songs two years later. And since they include reproaches against Tarja I think he shouldn't have done it.
     
     And I didn't say something in the lyrics of the songs is wrong. I wrote "what the songs say is wrong", meaning that I think the songs are wrong as a whole. I think to publish songs in which you blame somebody else for something is wrong, especially when everybody knows who they are directed to.
     
     "I think those misunderstandings happened just because the communication sucked. It's sad. They could have though the of letter over a bit more but even if they did not published it they would have had to talk about it in interviews and tell their pint of view. And people could still find many of those interviews from Internet. A public letter and those inteviews have many things in common. :/ "
     
     Yes, I'm sure there were loads of misunderstandings because of a lack of communication. But as I wrote: In my opinion there's nothing that gives anybody the write to start such a calumny, and if you don't think so, if you think there could have been something that gave them the right to publish that letter, then we definitely have different moral concepts.
     
     And NO, they could have just told Tarja in her face that they wanted her to leave - and she would have left, after all, she wanted to leave anyway. And they could have published the news on their website saying that there were personal and musical differences and they wish each other the best and so on. And they could have told the same in interviews or just refuse to answer any question about that - musicians have the right to tell journalists they don't want to be asked about certain things.
     There are thousands of bands who parted without such a mess, in a *professional* way. That's what NW should have done.
     
     "Ah, forgive me. :( I forgot the whole man exists.. Anyways, I bet many haters would not have forgiven NW if they had apologized because that doesn't change the fact that the letter still exists and is found from the Internet. I'm not saying you are one of them. There are many kinds of people in the world and if one forgives that doesn't mean someone else forgives. Some people never forgive. I recall Tarja was ready to forgive but not to forget. I understand her. "
     
     Oh, I think if NW would apologize for the letter and publish that on their website, even most haters would forgive them. But I don't know, of course.
     
     "I don't get why the band would have wanted to cause that kind of media circus. None of the band members have said they hate Tarja. "
     
     Well, of course they wouldn't say that openly. But you're probably right, I don't think they hated her, too. But I do think there was a great amount of bitterness and anger and that they didn't mind ruining both Tarja's and Marcelo's reputation.
     
     But I think there were other reasons they wanted a media circus. They knew they owed much of their success to Tarja, they're not stupid. And I think they were afraid of being less successful. Now imagine just the news on their website that Tarja was going to leave to pursue a solo career. That would make them look like those who are left behind, and even more so since Tuomas often said that NW without Tarja would cease to exist.
     By publishing the letter, they made it look like they didn't want Tarja in the band anymore - which might be true, I don't know - so suddenly she was the one who was kicked out, and they weren't the one who were left behind. They got huge publicity and could tell the whole world that they would go on without her. The split also made everybody curious about the new singer.
     
     Of course all of this is only speculation. You don't need to remind me I don't know for sure ;-)
     
     "That dwelling is and endless circle, unfortunately. I think it would be smart to be the first one to stop bashing. To start closing the circle. I would pointless, though. Maybe. "
     
     No, it's not a circle. We "bash" Nightwish, as you call it, because the others do, but they don't "bash" Tarja because of us. If we stopped that wouldn't make them stop, too. So the only consequence would be that there were only Pro-Nightwish and Anti-Tarja-comments everywhere.
     
     Sorry for my English, I'm a little tired ;-) and now i don't have the time to look my comment over again.

     Earwen wrote on 09.11.2009 at 00:00

128. The "poppy-est" song on DPP, was chosen by the record label, to be their first single. And to include the fancy video. But I don't see anyone, absolutely ANYONE complain about, how much of a greedy bitches, they are.(the record label)
     Instead, it's all thrown upon NW, and Tuomas, 'cause they are the bad people, who posted the bad letter, so it's ALL their fault. Never mind, it was actually intended, as a bonus track.
     The most important, is to post nonsenses around the internet, and to play "philosophers".
     Typical one-dimensional thinking, by typical teen-age retards.
     
     Apropos, there is NO such thing, as pop voice. Pop music - yes, pop culture - yes, but voice is just what it is. It could be weak, or strong, or screechy, or annoying, etc.
     But not pop.

     DeadAndGone wrote on 09.11.2009 at 00:46

129. Great joke Tuomas, great, it is so sweet and humble and nice of you after so much time to return to this letter thing and even in the form of joke, and tell the whole world about that joke :) Great asshole attitude :)

     Paradise seeker wrote on 09.11.2009 at 01:02

130. I am a bit confused with all these angry comments about Nightwish, I wish I had the time to reply to some of them but I'm afraid I don't. Let me just say that, in my opinion, when you are a fan of a band's MUSIC, you follow them on both their good and their bad times. This does not mean you have to blindly like whatever they do, but apart from being human (which gives them the benefit of making missteps too like all of us), they are also ARTISTS, which means they like to experiment and not stagnate just because they have to remain faithful to some random labelling. Said labelling constantly prevents many people from not enjoying music because they are afraid that if they say they like a song that is not metal enough, they will be bashed by metal fans; or if they say that they like a song that is not pop enough, again they will be bashed by pop fans; because they believe that one has to be follower of one genre for a lifetime and disregard all the others.
     
     By the way, when Tuomas says the album is going to be brighter, he doesn't mean it is going to be a pop album. I don't know how you see it, but I always found his music to be quite uplifting anyway, even in songs that were darker (with the exception of certain songs with specific theme - ie, Higher Than Hope, Creek Mary's Blood, The Poet & The Pendulum).
     
     Tuomas has said they won't play Bye Bye Beautiful again live. Which means this song has done its circle and that's it. They can't remove it from the album just like that. OK, it refers to Tarja. And so what? Joan Baez wrote Diamonds and Rust for Bob Dylan, when they were a couple and she was in love with him. Later they split, but does this mean she should stop playing the song? (It's one of the greatest love songs by the way.) Should she stop singing it because Bob Dylan got married and it would be awkward for his wife to listen to a love song written for her husband by another woman? NO. Because this is ART we are talking about. So BBB expresses anger towards another person. So what? Tarja also sings Enough which is clearly an answer/statement to her former band. So what? Artists express themselves via their art.
     
     As for the infamous letter, the band may have made a mistake, but this is old news now. Someone mentioned that when new fans read the letter they immediately hate Tarja because, due to the letter, they characterize her a greedy diva. I'll tell you something - if you are a fan of someone's ART, of their MUSIC, you don't get affected by ANYTHING. What happens between them, even if they decide to go public about it, is not our concern. At least it's not my concern. I don't care if Tarja wants money, or if Tuomas is greedy, or if Anette is a fashion freak. It's their work that interests me ONLY, I don't care about their characters or weaknesses because I can't judge them by just an interview, a letter or a blog post. If I like their songs, I listen to them; if I don't like them, I don't listen to them. I think it's pretty simple. I don't see why wasting so much energy in being angry against five people that have done nothing to me, that I don't know personally and whose only mistake was that they used their PR in a bad way at some point. But it's all ove now. Tarja came to my country twice for a concert and the club was full both times. People don't consider her a greedy diva, and that letter is already forgotten. People love her because she is a great artist no matter what. They don't care about the letter. Same goes for Nightwish. People here love them for their music and they don't give a penny about the rest.
     
     In several years from now when they will have ended their journey as a band (which I hope won't happen soon) it will be their music that will be remembered and nothing of the rest. It's their songs that will remain in music history and not some random phrases in interviews, letters or blongs.
     
     PS, my congratulations to Tero for his patience.

     Dust wrote on 09.11.2009 at 01:13

131. "I'm not sure how much studying she's doing, though. She's mentioned some CD's but I don't think she actually has a singing teacher or goes to any 'classes'."
     
     I recall she has mentioned singing classes or singing teacher somewhere. It was some time ago so I can't remember WHERE I read about that but I'm 100% sure she has mentioned it.
     
     "According to the poem that she wrote about herself way back when, she never listened to her teachers when she was growing up."
     
     Her teachers wanted to make her a classical singer but she didn't want to be one because it would have changed her voice too much and she did not like it.
     
     "Anette is not easy to work with. I think she even admitted this herself, that she gets bitchy and yells at them to leave her alone when she's having her mood swings and expects them to just deal with it."
     
     Everyone has the right to be alone if he/she feels so. The tour was long and the band and the crew were "a mobile marriage of 15 people" like Tuomas said in Made in Hong Kong documentary. Same faces every day, not much privacy or own space so it's only obvious that all the time at least one person had problems. I can understand them. When we Finns get pissed or want to be alone we are just quiet and go somewhere where we can be alone (usually). Anette has more temperament and it's hard for her to be quiet. And when she has something to say she doesn't hide it. Tuomas have said that all "fights" have only cleaned the air.
     
     "Stil they called it and posed it like "metal", they didn't call it something else. So being hard to categorize has nothing to do with this thing since according to NW themselves it was metal :)"
     
     Metal doesn't have to be pure metal. CC is not pure metal. Once is not pure metal. DPP is not pure metal. AFF is not metal at all. Oceanborn is mostly metal and Wishmaster is something between. :)
     
     "Well, New NW also did lots of gigs which according to their web-page (where it is always marked if the concert is sold out or not as I understand) were not sold out at all. :) So such things happen from their side as well:)"
     
     I don't think anyone espects that all the gigs can be sold out. It was just a comparison though we don't know if Tarja would have sold out another gig too on the next day.
     
     "She is a bit too old to learn to sing properly now, specially the material which doesn't fit her voice and requires more power, cause age (aging) affects the state of the voice (voice cords) as well as the whole body (organism).There won't be really big improvement."
     
     Yap, that's why it's no use to espect her to be able to sing everything. She can try to improve her singing technic so it would not be so painful to try sing higher. Like I said before, I have faith in her. She has a good spirit. :)
     
     "You don't have to shout and rool eyes when you are pissed :) It is obvious he didn't like it, was pissed and tried to prove something else."
     
     Maybe you interpret his body language like that but I don't. I really tried to find something that would prove he gets pissed. The video quality sucks but I don't know does it have anything to do with it. :P
     
     "Well, it is not good still- since also it ended for their singer in hiring manager, assistant and even a life-coach very fast :)"
     
     Those persons take care of Anette's personal things and they don't have anything to do with the band. ;)
     
     "PR is always PR- more attention to the band and it works and PR is always easy, specially a scandal. Besides they wanted to look like victims in that and posed them like it. And don't be naive, they don't to have to say straight that they hate her :) Those things can be done indirectly with hints."
     
     The band was going to have a long break, like now, so PR would have been futile. Once had sold very well so no need for extra money or anything like that.
     
     "Well ,as soon as NNF stop doing that on forums, youtube, fan communities and so on, then we follow their example ;) (That includes stop calling first singer a diva based on letter)."
     
     I'm not happy to read offending messages from YouTube or forums either. It just makes me wonder why people don't want to continue their lives. Mocking and bashing don't do anyone happy. It's no use to call Tarja a diva based on the letter or call Nightwish guys assholes based on the letter. Of course both sides think that they are right and the other side is wrong. I can imagine how you guys feel and I can imagine how New Nightwish fans feel. I consider myself somewhere between since I like both eras.
     
     "Well, if such nude pics were taken and made public, if such person once allowed a tour around his home (his first home) no matter if fans already knew about it or not, if in their documentaries band (including this person) is showed heavily drunk all the time, making toilet and fart jokes, his sudden worries about "privacy" are very exaggerated and hardly he should be very surprised that journalist will go for him a lot-cause he himself made everything to be an easy target."
     
     Like I said, giving interviews or posing in pictures by one's own will is much different thing compared to breaking domestic peace, which is against the law here in Finland. We all have the right to decide what we want people to know about ourselves, right? :) First two DVDs were made when the band members were 23-25 (Marco 37). Young men do stupid things and young rock'n'roll men do even more stupid things.
     
     "My friends were not impressed by Hartwall at all ;)"
     
     Well, I was and so was my boyfriend. :)
     
     "Yeah, that is trully funny, the lowering of musical skills. :) Not good."
     
     If singers voice changes and it's harder for her to learn new things it's obvious that players have problems too. Anette told in an interview that the boys suffered from pain in fingers and arms because of playing so many gigs so often. I understand if they just wanted to let their "tools" rest.
     
     "She doesn't turn her head starting 4:02, sings directly to the mic, so it is not playback, sorry."
     
     I hope this is not going to turn into a fight. Anyways, I expressed myself pretty badly when I talked about last "aaa"s. Watch 3:35-3:37. :)
     
     "Ah, that explains everything- you just never liked the first singer's voice :) So of course you will defend NNW, Olzon, and say how much of perfection they are. The Old era was never appealing to you since you didn't like the voice singing in it , you of course couldn't fully embrace it all.
     Typical NNF, nothing more :)"
     
     Singer is much more than just a voice. I'm grateful to Tarja what she did in the band and I like her personality but it doesn't mean I like her voice or I have to like it. I became a fan after listening to Dead Boy's Poem and I was impressed because of the music and the lyrics. Tarja's voice just hurt my ears even when I tried to like it. I'm just not made to listen classical singing. I'm a bit sad. She sure deserves that people like what she does. I'm glad she has a lot of fans.
     
     I have heard about Old Nightwish fans who liked the music but didn't like singer's voice. I am not alone.
     
     I'm not trying to force people to like Anette or Nightwish. If there are things that I think need to be corrected, I try it. If I want to tell about my own thoughts I try to do it without being offending. If I have failed, you have my apologies.
     
     "It would be smarter of him to answer it, not to try to avoid it in such manner- if he indeed doesn't plan a more poppy stuff, he would just say that. Simple. But he didn't."
     
     Why did you ignore the rest I wrote?
     
     "It is better to have singer who is easy to work with and who has a very good voice for this type of singing material.
     But she hasn't that kind of voice and she is not so easy to work with as it turned out, there were already many problems in the band, just withint 2 years :)"
     
     They just did not find that kind of person. It's as simple as that. ;) There are not any problems anymore and the whole band is very happy. It's not only because of the break.
     
     "NW via this famous letter exposed their and someone's private things (life) and matters to the whole world, well, mostly their first singer's ones :) They started that machine of digging in someone's personality -so they are getting now the taste of their own medicine."
     
     What personal things have come out because of the media circus? I got curious.
     
     "I didn't say that "breaking voice" means screaming. I said that in my opinion she screams higher notes, and independent from that I answered to Minna who wrote that Anette's voice breaks at higher notes and still called that singing, while in my opinion a singer's voice shouldn't break, as I wrote."
     
     I understood you meant like that. My apologies. :)
     
     "But Tarja studied classical singing, while Anette is only learning singing using belting. To that, she is new to NW, but she already sang in other bands for many years. So she is new in a different way than Tarja was back then. I don't think she will improve as much as Tarja did."
     
     Anette studied classical singing for three years but she quit when her voice was changing. Singing in other bands is not a good school since their music was way more different compared to NW. I believe she will improve in her own way. :)
     
     "Well, of course they wouldn't say that openly. But you're probably right, I don't think they hated her, too. But I do think there was a great amount of bitterness and anger and that they didn't mind ruining both Tarja's and Marcelo's reputation."
     
     The band called Tarja in the letter "an old friend" and I don't think they mean ex-friend. The boys were sad they had to fire Tarja. I think most of the bitterness was because of Marcelo, that's what I have understood from interviews. But of course, we don't know what happened behind the curtains and the whole bitterness might have been just because of bunch of misunderstandings, which is very sad.. :/
     
     "No, it's not a circle. We "bash" Nightwish, as you call it, because the others do, but they don't "bash" Tarja because of us. If we stopped that wouldn't make them stop, too. So the only consequence would be that there were only Pro-Nightwish and Anti-Tarja-comments everywhere."
     
     Bashing Nightwish because of the fans sounds funny. :) I'm quite sure there are people who bash Tarja just because you do. And I'm sure that some bashers think the same way you do. I have seen bashers who bash only because they think it's entertaining and some bashers do their thing because the others do too and they get courage to follow them. This happenes on both side. It doesn't matter why people bash the other side because bashing happens whatever the reasons are and that's what I meant by endless circle.
     
     Damn, I should learn to express myself better. :/

     JesseFinn wrote on 09.11.2009 at 01:41

132. @DeadAndGone
     
     There are too many poppy songs on DPP- hardly label chose all of them :) And of course label won't complain - poppy stuff brings more audience and cash :)
     
     And yes, it was bad to post such letter, including other things, and they are getting what they are getting. And no, it is not nonsense, but of course hardcore NNF would find it as nonsense. And since you can't do anything more but only call people who are not blinded fans as you teenage retards that really is 'smartest' thing. In fact you are acting as teenager here.
     And her voice is called pop in the meaning that she uses that singing technique that is widely applied in pop, also the manner of singing counts and attitude to the singing material :)

     Orion wrote on 09.11.2009 at 09:10

133. @Dust
     "Let me just say that, in my opinion, when you are a fan of a band's MUSIC, you follow them on both their good and their bad times. This does not mean you have to blindly like whatever they do, but apart from being human (which gives them the benefit of making missteps too like all of us), they are also ARTISTS, which means they like to experiment and not stagnate just because they have to remain faithful to some random labelling. "
     
     No, you don't follow it no matter what. Unless you are blind follower. And if the music starts heading just to commercial mainstream direction, being more generic, it doesn't called experimenting, cause actually you can experiment without becoming just more mainstreamish.
     
     "By the way, when Tuomas says the album is going to be brighter, he doesn't mean it is going to be a pop album. I don't know how you see it, but I always found his music to be quite uplifting anyway"
     
     He didn't say that he is not going to do more poppy songs, as he didn't really answer that question. And in total his songs, including both music and lyrics, are not so cheery and uplifting by their meaning.
     
     "Tuomas has said they won't play Bye Bye Beautiful again live. Which means this song has done its circle and that's it. They can't remove it from the album just like that. OK, it refers to Tarja. And so what? "
     
     Yes, they played it for about a year, it did its trick already:) No matter if they won't play it anymore. Besides there is no real guarantee that they won't. And it wasn't about art only, it was just another PR and flaming up the drama. Not to mention that there is also song about her husband even on the album- great exploitation of the whole drama thing which was started by them.
     
     "Tarja also sings Enough which is clearly an answer/statement to her former band. So what? Artists express themselves via their art. "
     
     It is her answer to songs like BBB, MPG and the whole drama created by publishing those songs on album and playing BBB live.
     
     "As for the infamous letter, the band may have made a mistake, but this is old news now. "
     
     Not so old, since Holopainen brings it up again in that interview- only in this brainless joke form :)
     
     "I'll tell you something - if you are a fan of someone's ART, of their MUSIC, you don't get affected by ANYTHING. What happens between them, even if they decide to go public about it, is not our concern. At least it's not my concern."
     
     But new fans get affected by letter. Period. Harm is done. NW themselves made this important what happened in the band through pubic letter. Made important those personal matters.
     If you are not affected, good for you, but lots of people are, and since hardly you will go around internet telling your conception to each and everyone of them, don't bother to spread it here also. That won't work.
     
     "personally and whose only mistake was that they used their PR in a bad way at some point. But it's all ove now. "
     
     Yeah, just little cute mistake - bad PR at someone else's expense, aimed at ruining someone else's reputation. Let's give them a medal for it!
     And it is not over - until Holopainen and other NW would bring up that storty in any way, it is not over.
     
     
     "Tarja came to my country twice for a concert and the club was full both times. People don't consider her a greedy diva, and that letter is already forgotten. People love her because she is a great artist no matter what. They don't care about the letter. Same goes for Nightwish. People here love them for their music and they don't give a penny about the rest. "
     
     I know other examples, and letter is not forgotten.
     
     "In several years from now when they will have ended their journey as a band (which I hope won't happen soon) it will be their music that will be remembered and nothing of the rest. It's their songs that will remain in music history and not some random phrases in interviews, letters or blongs. "
     
     No, it will be remembered in whole- not only music, but the attitude, "bad PR" and everything they cause by it :)

     Orion wrote on 09.11.2009 at 09:34

134. "Metal doesn't have to be pure metal. CC is not pure metal. Once is not pure metal. DPP is not pure metal. AFF is not metal at all. Oceanborn is mostly metal and Wishmaster is something between. :) "
     
     Metal has to be metal. Specially when band itself tried to pose for a long time that they were metal, not just partly-something with just some elements. :)
     And yeah, that's fact that NW began to become less and less metal on previous albums (specially Once), and that lead to DPP - the most poppy album, with shifts to pop-rock, no matter if there is puffed-up orchestra or the band still try to pretend that DPP is so metal, while it is not :) Period.
     
     "I don't think anyone espects that all the gigs can be sold out. It was just a comparison though we don't know if Tarja would have sold out another gig too on the next day. "
     
     Actually that other person tried to pose it this way- that every gig must be sold out to prove that you are something. :)
     Well, we know that NW wasn't able to sell out gigs in some countries where they haven't been for a very long time and where gig after such break on the contrary was supposed to bring lots of audience.

     Terry wrote on 09.11.2009 at 09:53

135. @JesseFinn
     "Yap, that's why it's no use to espect her to be able to sing everything. She can try to improve her singing technic so it would not be so painful to try sing higher. Like I said before, I have faith in her. She has a good spirit. :) "
     
     She was supposed to be ready and able to sing everything, that was requirement as already mentioned. But she can't and she is not a young person and beginner in singing. Now it turns out that she needs to improve, and to improve a lot. She can try, but it's too late for her to make any real huge leap.
     Spirit has nothing to do with it, lol, don't mix those things, it has to do with natural given voice and its qualities, state of voice at present time (present age of singer), power of the voice, etc. Spirit won't help it here.
     
     "Maybe you interpret his body language like that but I don't. I really tried to find something that would prove he gets pissed. The video quality sucks but I don't know does it have anything to do with it. :P "
     
     Not only I, but also lots and lots of his own fans interpret it like that :). Pissed person doesn't have to cough blood and swear, sometimes such person can give a smile-actually sometimes smile is scarier than shouting :) Since he is introvert, he acts like ordinary pissed introvert :)
     
     "Those persons take care of Anette's personal things and they don't have anything to do with the band. ;) "
     
     No they have to do, they have not only to care of her personal things (including the ones connected with her activities in the band), but also to support her in terms of having good communication with her, since she didn't get that in the band a lot :)
     
     "The band was going to have a long break, like now, so PR would have been futile. Once had sold very well so no need for extra money or anything like that. "
     
     As you see it didn't turn out futile for them - on the contrary more drama, more media attention, both to the band and new singer, thus more interest- they wouldn't get that amount of media attention if it was just another routine working on new album with same singer. "Once" sold well, but to get a fast and wider burst in terms of embracing wider new musical market (US) and get more listeners at once and fast, and thus getting more money, such PR action was really worth it :)
     
     "I'm not happy to read offending messages from YouTube or forums either."
     
     Like I already said, if NNF will stop doing it everywhere, then others probably will follow their example. But only then :) But if you a realist you understand that this won't never happen.
     
     "Like I said, giving interviews or posing in pictures by one's own will is much different thing compared to breaking domestic peace, which is against the law here in Finland. "
     
     So if it is so hard for Tuomas he will sue them, that will get more media PR for him and so on, if not he won't bring this matter never again, but since he did so many things that exposed him a lot, his complains about his "privacy" now are a bit too much. :)
     
     "Well, I was and so was my boyfriend. :) "
     
     Some of my acquaintances actually even left the gig earlier-cause it wasn't very impressing :)
     
     " Anette told in an interview that the boys suffered from pain in fingers and arms because of playing so many gigs so often. I understand if they just wanted to let their "tools" rest. "
     
     Well, they can't play those songs cuase they are a bit harder than stuff the play now mostly, that's why they lost their training and skills :) Not to mention, now they also use a lot of playback tracks-which they don't have to play personally.
     BTW, it was also Jukka who said about being hard to play their old songs :)
     
     "I hope this is not going to turn into a fight. Anyways, I expressed myself pretty badly when I talked about last "aaa"s. Watch 3:35-3:37. :) "
     
     Yeah, I watched it, there is also such thing as sound editing and sounds echos,caused by equipment musicians use, specially sometimes when prof. video is edited to make it availabe :) Not to mention that there is also a difference between live voice and playback and it is heard as live voice :)
     So sad, now the ending of this song live is completely missing, they just play instrumental part of it.

     Wilska wrote on 09.11.2009 at 10:38

136. Yva said:
     
     "I played in a band who played what was considered as gothic rock, I know what I am talking about. What is a Tesco store by the way ? "
     _______________________________________________________
     
     OK, now I understand - DPP is inspires by band you played in, and you think that music you did was a goth rock... Nah, that makes some sense I think...
     
     DPP sounds as if it was inspired by some unknown band... but whether that unknown band played goth rock... that is another question. Neither me, nor Almagest - and if there is somebody who does know what goth rock is - well such a person would also agree with us that
     
     DPP is as much goth rock as "O, Tahnenbaum, Oh Tahnebaum"... or "Should all acquitances be forgot" ...
     
     or simply as any other folk music.
     
     So, the same question again: what GOTH ROCK band was DPP influenced by according to you? Except of that noname band you played in..?
     
     As for your question about Tesco - maybe you know Kaufland? Or another such a store? I believe there are in any country ... well, maybe not in Africa... but Yva, if you would give us your nationality, there certainly will be something to be used an an understandable example for you..

     mermaid wrote on 09.11.2009 at 10:43

137. "Why did you ignore the rest I wrote? "
     
     Your personal experience in interviews have nothing to do with Tuomas's deliberately ignoring such question ,when it is easier to give an answer to it, specially if he doesn't going to write poppy/poppier stuff :)
     
     "They just did not find that kind of person. It's as simple as that. ;) There are not any problems anymore and the whole band is very happy. It's not only because of the break."
     
     It is their problem, that they didn't it. We mustn't give them discount for that :) About no problems- questionable and not believable, since in the beginning they also tried to say everything was ideal and they were happy, when there were many,many problems and it was seen they were not happy anymore, though at some point they tried to deny it and fake happiness,and now again "happy,happy" attitude. There is to much posing in this band :)

     Orion wrote on 09.11.2009 at 10:52

138. "What personal things have come out because of the media circus? I got curious. "
     
     The whole letter was "exposing" the personality of their singer, and her supposedly personal qualities like being greedy, cold, diva-bitchy and so on. Thanks to this very letter the first singer is being labeled with those words on regulasr basis. Media circus replicated this whole things-now the first usual thing I hear from new NW listeners, that " I heard of this band, they used to kick out their singer cause she was diva" :)
     

     Orion wrote on 09.11.2009 at 11:03

139. JessFinn
     
     Oph, now I see the problem.
     
     First of all the singer is a voice (singing)- a good singer is the singer who sings good or at least properly, not a singer who fails to do it properly on regular basis, but who gives people baloons, candies and warm fuzzy feeling ,whatever in that vein :) And if you judge a singer and try to say that you like this singer than it means that you like her voice. If not, that means that you actually don't like such person as a singer at all, and likes her only as a person. And you don't like Tarja's voice, you even say it hurts your ears, so you don't like her as singer.
     
     Another point in that is that you are not a classical singer's listener at all, you don't like that either. That is even bigger problem, cause it is obvious that since you just don't dig in any classical singing, your musical taste is narrowed by the certain type of singing - as we see,totally non-classical, much more poppy one:)
     To give more feedback, many people here, who are not NNW's fans or Olzon's fans, are in fact fans of both classical and non-classical singing, they have broader musical taste when it comes to this matter, but they are fans of good or proper singing, not of singers who are not able to cope with their jobs and with stuff they should sing on proper level, as requiered. So they don't like Anette not because she is not classical singer, they don't like her cause she is pretty much mediorce, weak and iffy for that kind of music she perfroms in NW. Easier music in the vein of usual pop-rock suits her far better as seen from some of her side-projects.
     
     
     So now we came to this conclusion:
     
     Let's be honest, you are not a real Old NW fan, cause in order to be it you need to like all that was in Old NW era (music+lyrics+voice). Not every and each song -as there were some weak songs, with weak vocals performances in Old Era, specially last album, but still as a whole you need to be a fan of the voice as well, cause the voice in Old NW played quite a big importance, was very dominant. Since you didn't like the voice at all, you only tolerated it as it seems from your words, even with effort, you can't be real fan of that period. The same goes for other people who pretends to be Old NW fans while completely disliking the voice which sang all those songs on all 5 albums, one EP and a couple of DVDs :)
     
     So that's why you are a fan of NW music in toto and NNW fan in particular, but you are definately not fan of ONW :), so basically not a real fan of both eras. That is cleared, but in that frame your whole point here isn't quite valid, since it has different perspective :)
     
     
     I am glad you are not trying to force people to like Anette or New NW, cause it is pointless, actually the more you would try the more you would fail in that. But all in all your attempt to correct the whole thing here won't bring really anything, cause this whole process was started long ago and not by people here, and there won't be any changes, until people who really stared that mess will try to clean it up a bit. :)
     

     Black Beauty wrote on 09.11.2009 at 13:38

140. @mermaid
     
     Here in Greece we don't have Tesco or Kaufland stores either...

     Legeon wrote on 09.11.2009 at 15:52

141. @celisajan :
     "Tuomas,Marco,Anette ..the whole....and Tarja are humans..
     not machines..
     Humans have..."
     
     @Dust :
     "I am a bit confused with all these angry comments about Nightwish, I wish I had the time to ..."
     
     Great posts you 2 ! Good job...
     People should read these 2 posts.
     
     One thing i can see is that people are getting tired of all this mocking (NNW fans and ONW fans).
     Of course there will always be some childish people that didn't had enough like Wrathchild and others.
     We should stop it. And we shouldn't try to get an excuse for not stoping it, like :"i'll stop if you stop"... we all had this kind of behavior when we were children.
     Lets just Refresh (F5) our comments and make them more appropriate to our age.
     

     lmcb wrote on 09.11.2009 at 16:16

142. "Great posts you 2 ! Good job...
     People should read these 2 posts.
     
     One thing i can see is that people are getting tired of all this mocking (NNW fans and ONW fans). "
     
     @lmcb
     
     Actually, about human and not machines- their first singer wasn't treated like real human being with feelings when she was fired like that through that letter :) Her husband wasn't treated very much like human being with feelings when he also was fired/blamed through letter, song,etc.
     NNF surprisingly only remeber to call Tarja also "human" from time to time only in the line with their fav Tuomas and Anette, just to make people start to go mild on them and close eyes on their actions.:)
     
     "One thing i can see is that people are getting tired of all this mocking (NNW fans and ONW fans).
     We should stop it. And we shouldn't try to get an excuse for not stoping it, like :"i'll stop if you stop"... we all had this kind of behavior when we were children. "
     
     People (ONW fans) are getting tired that NW after so many years still bring up this issue in different ways-this time in the recent interview via pathetic joke.
     We (ONW fans and just metal fans) will stop it as soon as NW stop bringing up the whole story over and over again. And a real official apology from NW also would be something really human to do.

     Iris wrote on 09.11.2009 at 17:11

143. Tuomas you have money, please, buy yourself a real human heart, cause jokes of that kind are really heartless :(

     Gigy wrote on 09.11.2009 at 17:28

144. Legeon,
     
     there certainly are some chain stores in Greece, are not they? Where are you doing your BIG shopping?

     mermaid wrote on 09.11.2009 at 18:24

145. Gigy said:
     
     "Tuomas you have money, please, buy yourself a real human heart, cause jokes of that kind are really heartless :("
     ___________________________________________
     Or at least half of a brain. So he would act adequatly his own age.
     

     mermaid wrote on 09.11.2009 at 18:59

146. @Iris
     "Actually, about human and not machines- their first singer wasn't treated like real human being with feelings when she was fired like that through that letter :) Her husband wasn't treated very much like human being with feelings when he also was fired/blamed through letter, song,etc."
     
     Did you know really to 100% that Tarja didn´t play with Tuomas feelings???
     Did you know all the words they are spoken behind the closen door??
     NO you all see only this letter..
     It was a big mistake to write an open letter..thats a fakt
     but who knows how long Tarja and Marcello make dirty games with Tuomas behind the walls, so the fans can´t see or hear this , nobody here knows it.. i don´t know , too...but its possible that there are much problems and Tuomas was feeling treatend really unfair..and at least he makes this mistake....all is possible ..you all talk about the things you can see( your super fakts) ..and not about this things you can´t see...
     It´s so superficial..
     Ok your win! Orion Legeon and all the others here are so intelligent and so right people..near to god,
     all the others who are trying to be so fair to say it was a mistake of Tuomas but he still makes good musik and anette is no monster..we are the bad ones... its ok...
     This discusion is so hopeless because some people are ever in right, because they knows it better..
     
     written words is one thing...but the feelings behind words...is another thing...
     You can talk about fakts..and you can listen to your hearts..
     
     a example
     A woman , who murderd her man is a murder..thats a fakt...
     but if this woman was treat bad by her man years over years..and she can´t fight against him, so she murderd him at least, this woman do this , because she is desperate...
     
     So now..I hope you can sleep well and have nice dreams...about right and judging and about feelings and fakts...
     
     

     celisajan wrote on 09.11.2009 at 21:14

147. JesseFinn: Whether NW sold out the London shows is totally beside the point.
     
     Erm, it's easy now to be "adult" and just make hints about the letter to rub it in and pour oil into the flames now that it has already done its effect. There's no need to do so.
     
     Jukka also admitted he couldn't play the Oceanborn songs anymore on Nightmail.
     
     You also forget that Anette is much older than Tarja. The fact that Marco now has to support her in songs is an indirect admittance that she can't handle the songs.
     
     Metal or not - that's not an opinion.
     
     By the way, the lyrics on DPP are really more mainstream, more alternative rock like. Negative lyrics are mainstream nowadays, it's not the 80s anymore.
     
     Are Tuomas and Marco really happy with Anette? They pretend it, but I have heard other things. Also the reasons Tainted~ gave.
     
     Talven sydän: As I said, I have reasons to doubt that. Certainly she doesn't fit her profile of a "likeable singer" anymore.
     
     Earwen: Actually "everyone knows" that BBB and MPG are about Tarja and Marcelo respectively because they've admitted it publicly in interviews.
     
     DeadAndGone: I wouldn't even say that Amaranth is the poppiest song on DPP. There are several songs that are at least as poppy.
     
     Dust: Again: EXPERIMENTING AND CHANGING YOUR STYLE ISN'T THE SAME AS GOING COMMERCIAL. There are bands like Ulver who have experimented from album to album and radically changed their style each time, but they have not been accused by anyone for selling out, because they've never dumbed their music down.
     
     For example, if a successful English neo-progressive rock band (such as Marillion) in the 80s had switched to gothic rock that would surely have been seen as selling out, as that was a time when gothic rock was mainstram in England (it never was anywhere else really), so they would just have been perceived as trying to make more money by jumping on a bandwagon. NW is jumping on the bandwagon of Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil, Evanescence and the like. Film soundtracks sell better than classical symphonies or even chamber music, pop vocals better than classical vocals, and light, generic pop/alternative rock better than power metal with relatively difficult guitar/keyboard/drum parts - because that kind of music requires more dedication of the listener and cannot be listened once in the background and loved immediately. Well-written demanding music is not love at first listen - even for people used to that sort of music - you need to dedicate more attention to it to appreciate it, and you need more experience.
     
     Also, it wasn't "elitist" fans aren't the ones who have accused anyone for not being "metal", it was NW themselves who did that.
     
     Also, Joan Baez didn't attack Bob Dylan, so the comparison is nonsense. Enough is a reaction, not an attack, and it doesn't refer to anyone in particular, and sure it does not excuse the original songs. Tarja doesn't exploit anything by that song.
     
     NW have told is that the characters and weaknesses of artists DO count. Even to you, since you prefer Anette because of her personality, not because she is the better singer. Nobody judges them by ONLY a single interview or blog post, by the way.
     
     People do feel personally affected by people they used to be fans of who give them, essentially, their finger. What's so hard to understand about that?
     
     Nothing is over. People who consider Tarja a greedy diva just don't come to her concerts.
     
     Why are you so sure that those things won't be remembered? The letter is still remembered and dug up constantly by new NW fans who hate Tarja just because of it.
     
     Sorry, try again.
     
     JesseFinn: Anette has said something about Copenhagen academy, but I don't see her mentioning anything about getting actual lessons anymore. Perhaps they saw that it was no good :P
     
     No, Anette just didn't want to learn ANYTHING. She just wanted to do what she wanted.
     
     Everyone has a right to be alone? But Tarja was fired and her desire to be alone was brought up negatively in that respect (even if it may not have been the real reason).
     
     There have been fights between Tuomas and Tarja, too, but obviously the have cleared nothing because the problems remained.
     
     You don't understand what metal is. It's like pregnancy. Either music is based on the structure of metal (as opposed to, say, hardcore punk or funk music), or it is not. It is the structure of the music that makes metal what it is. Just check what Wikipedia has to say about it, they describe it pretty well:
     
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music#Musical_language
     
     and also this contribution by someone who has studied music on an academic level and brings many examples with notes:
     
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Avant-garde_metal#Difference_with_alternative
     
     You say you like both "eras" equally. Obviously you do not, as Tarja's voice is central to the music, unlike, for example, Marco's bass tone, which I don't like but can easily ignore.
     
     It's not equally easy to impress everyone. If you are already a big fan and you are impressed, that's not remarkable. It is more remarkable if fans are disappointed, or people who don't like a band are impressed by a live gig, as has repeatedly happened with people who were not impressed by the songs on MWS but by Tarja and her band's live performances of the songs, and started to like the songs more.
     
     You claim that there are no problems anymore and the whole band is very happy because they claim it. But they have been caught lying before.
     
     Studying classical singing does change your voice, irrevocably. (But aging does, too.) Anette should have realised that before she started.
     
     Tarja said that the guys never acted like friends to her.
     
     A smile is actually an aggressive sign, because you show your teeth. Lots of people smile in contempt and anger.
     
     They sure need lots of PR now so that people won't forget them until the next album ;-) They still sell records and merchandise, even in breaks, remember?
     
     I for myself don't "bash", just criticise NW for what they do and say.
     
     You seem to believe you were more mature and objective than the so-called "haters", but you are every bit as biased.
     
     Orion: "Pubic letter" is a good misspelling. :-D
     
     Black Beauty: Indeed, I don't think that JesseFinn is a "true fan" either (by the way, it was Tuomas and JesseFinn himself who brought that concept up, not arrogant, elitist Tarja fans). Because a "true fan" likes the music (which the vocals form a central part of), as Tuomas said, not just elements of it ;-)
     
     If I liked the music on DPP but couldn't bear the vocals I wouldn't consider myself a fan of the album. Another example: I don't really like the guitar tone and guitar parts on MWS but I don't find them intolerable and they are not central to the music. But I've read many times of people complaining about Kimberly's vocals on Sinergy and several times about Tarja's vocals on Nightwish being intolerable although they love the instrumental part of the music. People who constantly need to mentally blank the vocals out of music to enjoy it because they find them intolerable must be really sad. They suffer through things they find absolutely intolerable. I think they totally miss the point of listening to music, because listening to music should not mean suffering. Perhaps you should try to cut the vocals out of the music with some kind of software ;-)
     
     Now I'd really find it funny if NW re-recorded all their old albums with Anette on vocals. I wouldn't listen to them because unlike JesseFinn et al., I'm not THAT masochist, but it would be funny to have all those NNF pretending how much they enjoy Anette's incompetent renditions that have nothing to do with the music that Tuomas wrote in the first place XD

     Almagest wrote on 09.11.2009 at 21:37

148. lmcb: "Lets just Refresh (F5) our comments and make them more appropriate to our age."
     
     Well, I do encourage you to do so (since you obviously included yourself in your exhortation by saying "Let[']s" and "our"), but I feel my comments are perfectly appropriate to my age. :-)
     
     Gigy: "Tuomas you have money, please, buy yourself a real human heart, cause jokes of that kind are really heartless :("
     
     I'm sure he knows that his heart has been replaced by money since he wrote a song "For the Heart I Once Had", after all. Perhaps organ transplantation would indeed be the solution. :-)

     Almagest wrote on 09.11.2009 at 21:45

149. @Iris
     "People (ONW fans) are getting tired that NW after so many years still bring up this issue in different ways-this time in the recent interview via pathetic joke.
     We (ONW fans and just metal fans) will stop it as soon as NW stop bringing up the whole story over and over again. And a real official apology from NW also would be something really human to do. "
     
     So write them a letter an make your point.
     
     www.nightwish.com/en/contact
     tuomas@nightwish.com
     
     I think , after reading this forum , that only one person
     loved that joke...Wrathchild... well its just a kid or a childish adult (you can pick one!) that is trying to flame every thread here on Nightwish news and Tarja news at MFF.
     
     I didnt see the interview (readinf is quite different) and dont know with which intentions Tuomas said it. Was he serious ? joking ? being sarcastic ?
     Why did the interviewer asked : "You didn't think to give her a 'letter'?"
     He was flamming things up, dont you agree ?
     Could he (tuomas) just making fun of him ?
     
     In every case he was wrong in saying that.
     Everybody agrees with you on that point.
     At least he reckons that it would be a tasteless joke.
     
     Tuomas just added wood to the fire.
     Like some fans here, he should first think before saying anything.
     
     The fact that he an excellent composer doesnt make him an Intelligent and sensitive person.

     lmcb wrote on 09.11.2009 at 21:54

150. Oh, and I find it schizophrenic how some Tuomas fans complain about Tarja's "technical" vocals when all she is doing is (get this) *singing the vocal lines that Tuomas actually wrote the way they were intended to*, and how they enjoy Anette's renditions so much more when they *strongly differ from Tuomas's intentions*. Tarja *respects* Tuomas's compositions, Anette does not. So I'd say that those "Tuomas fans" actually are fans of *Anette's vocal lines* and complain about *Tuomas's vocal lines*, because he wrote those annoyingly technical and difficult vocal lines.

     Almagest wrote on 09.11.2009 at 21:55

151. Also, Tuomas praised Tarja for always getting his intention and singing with so much passion and emotion, which those "Tuomas fans" claim she lacks.
     
     The conclusion is that those "Tuomas fans" do not actually like the music, at least not the vocal lines that he writes (except vocal lines such as those for other classical vocalists such as the boy sopranos), and therefore are not "true Nightwish fans" in Tuomas's sense, because that would require liking EVERYTHING in the music that he has written, INCLUDING vocal lines. At least when it comes to vocals, those "Tuomas fans" are Anette's fans and emphatically NOT Tuomas's fans. They think that Anette has to "correct" his compositions, and this means that to them, Tuomas is NOT a good composer, at least when it comes to vocal lines, and Anette is better at that.

     Almagest wrote on 09.11.2009 at 22:04

152. @celisajan
     "Did you know really to 100% that Tarja didn´t play with Tuomas feelings???
     Did you know all the words they are spoken behind the closen door?? but who knows how long Tarja and Marcello make dirty games with Tuomas behind the walls, so the fans can´t see or hear this , nobody here knows it.. i don´t know , too..."
     
     Played with his feelings? A married woman who clearly loved her husband would play with feelings of her bandmate? Right, like she needed that a lot :) Besides, if he had love for her or something like it, it isn't also a noble way to revange the person just because this person didn't return your feelings.
     Oh, so you mean that they did such horrible things with helpless Tuomas that there was only one good way to treat them-to get rid of them via such letter, ruining their reputation in public through media? I know it wasn't a rose garden period for him but he found very fast great scapegoats for all it -just to put all the blame on them.
     You know in order to deserve such treatment,which they got in the end from Maestro, both Diva and Mafioso needed to kill somebody in the band, maybe Tuomas himself :)
     
     "are so intelligent and so right people..near to god, "
     
     And you aslo act like that, lecturing us about how we should behave according to you. This isn't any better, frankly speaking. This discusion is hopeless indeed, if you still think that you can say to us that we are in fact are so wrong, cause we don't act and say things as you would like us to or whatever.

     Iris wrote on 09.11.2009 at 22:04

153. So according to some "Tuomas fans", it would be preferrable if Anette wrote the lead vocals, at least her own parts, on the next album, and they can be expected to love the vocal lines on Anette's solo album, even though Tuomas (the mastermind, remember) didn't write them, but Anette together with a bunch of hired guns. So my conclusion is that Anette is exposing Tuomas's weaknesses in writing vocal lines for female leads (although Tuomas's critics already claimed that earlier on), and undermining his authority as a genius who writes perfect music.

     Almagest wrote on 09.11.2009 at 22:10

154. Interesting :
     
     about 148 Comments so far
     about 115 words "letter"
     
     lol
     

     lmcb wrote on 09.11.2009 at 22:30

155. @celisajan
     
     "So now..I hope you can sleep well and have nice dreams...about right and judging and about feelings and fakts..."
     
     Dear Lord...How many times do we have to say this in order to GET IT IN YOUR TEENAGE BRAIN?
     
     We don't judge by their feelings!We don't know their feelings!
     We judge by their ACTIONS,and posting a letter like this and reproducing it for years is an ACTION,a public one.
     
     "all the others who are trying to be so fair to say it was a mistake of Tuomas"
     
     It was a mistake,and the whole world can see that except for NNW fans.
     You know,it's ridiculous how NNW fans accuse Tarja for everything,including Tuomas' hypothetical suicidal tendencies,but they find NOTHING BAD in Tuomas talking like that about a woman.WHO'S NOT A MURDERER FOR CRYING OUT!
     
     @mermaid
     
     The fact that there are big chains doesn't mean that these chains HAVE TO BE the same that there are in other countries too.
     Actually all our big chain markets are Greek companies.
     I still have no clue what Tesco is.

     Legeon wrote on 10.11.2009 at 00:48

156. lmcb, the fact that he was AWARE that the joke was tasteless makes things even worse ... lack of sensitivity or intelligence isn't the point; I don't think that he lacks either. I'd rather chalk it up to pure malice.

     Almagest wrote on 10.11.2009 at 01:31

157. @lmcb
     "So write them a letter an make your point.
     www.nightwish.com/en/contact
     tuomas@nightwish.com "
     
     Gladly :) Only as you also indicated that you want to "refresh" comments and situation and also want to stop bringing up the whole story again and again, and this can be done only if NW themselves would stop doing that, I think it would be even more effective if you also write them a letter with such point :) The more the better :) Though it is a bit strange that being adults (with their bodies at least) and after several years from 2005 they still bring it up in media :( Would our points actually influence them if they don't (or don't want to)understand it themselves?! ;)
     
     "and dont know with which intentions Tuomas said it. Was he serious ? joking ? being sarcastic ?
     Why did the interviewer asked : "You didn't think to give her a 'letter'?"
     He was flamming things up, dont you agree ?
     Could he (tuomas) just making fun of him ?"
     
     No matter what his intentions were- bringing up the whole story once again, in this form of such joke is totally wrong and kinda lame. To such question of interviewer he could answer simple thing: "no, we didn't" or at least "you know we wanted to joke about it but decided not to do it", without describing the joke in full, without going into details. Besides, if he himself thinks and says the joke is tasteless why then telling it and make it public in interview at all? Just to boast or something?
     
     As you said it: he just added more wood to the fire.

     Iris wrote on 10.11.2009 at 10:33

158. "We don't judge by their feelings!We don't know their feelings!"
     If you don´t know the real background of their actions..you don´t have the right to judge over their actions.. Oh but it´s okay YOU have the right...;-)
     
     Teenage brain...hhhmm I think Iam a grown up wife!!
     But its only my opinion , you have the right for your own opinion ;-)
     
     And if others can say my opinion is wrong, and I don´t think that Iam soooo wrong, so I can say what I think about the opinions from people like Legeon , Orion ,mermaid(the anette Blog reader haha)
     I know you think you got more rights than others here...but sorry, we´ve got rights too..this is an oficial site here and we all can talk here.. Tarja Fans, NW Fans, NNW Fans, Teenager,older generations,Anette Fans, and secret Anette Fans(mermaid ;-) ) and people like me who likes Tarjas and NW and NNWs Musik!!!!
     The second NW album with Anette...let us see how many people will buy it and hear it.. maybe it will be good maybe not so good...we will wait and we will see :-)
     When the new album is out, I will come back to this site here , hopefull to find you here again, to talk, to stalk, to mock and to discuss... bye see you in 2010-11
     have a nice time...!!
     

     celisajan wrote on 10.11.2009 at 11:27

159. .. one thing to say..
     about the letter "joke"
     I think, he want´s to blame the interviewer..because to ask some disrespektfull and dump question ,needs a sarkasm answer..
     It was sarcasm against the interviewer , and nothing else!!
     
     (but only my opinion...lol )
     
     

     celisajan wrote on 10.11.2009 at 11:35

160. celisajan said:
     
     "And if others can say my opinion is wrong, and I don´t think that Iam soooo wrong, so I can say what I think about the opinions from people like Legeon , Orion ,mermaid(the anette Blog reader haha)
     I know you think you got more rights than others here...but sorry, we´ve got rights too..this is an oficial site here and we all can talk here.. Tarja Fans, NW Fans, NNW Fans, Teenager,older generations,Anette Fans, and secret Anette Fans(mermaid ;-) ) and people like me who likes Tarjas and NW and NNWs Musik!!!! "
     __________________________________________________
     OK, I have NO IDEA what you wanted to say, Celisajan,
     
     But I have never ever said that you can not talk here... talk as much as you can!
     
     The fact is that I do not read these stuff so much... but that is my right - not to read.
     
     You have a right to type 100 messages here... and I have a right not to read them.
     
     What is so pecial about the fact that I read Princess blog? I almost stopped when it was SO boring... one week with cats!
     
     But yes, I do read it, because it is so FUNNY!
     
     And as for secret Princess fan... there is no secret! I was the only one from DC who wanted Princess to stay in NW... because asI said Princess is the best God´s punishment NW could ever receive!
     
     Long live the princess! Long should she stay with her support band!

     mermaid wrote on 10.11.2009 at 12:21

161. OK, looksto me that there si some confusion regarding Tesco stores I mentioned.
     
     So, here where I live, we have such places called "SHOPS". We go there, pick up some food, DVDs, fruites, mineral water, etc...
     
     then we pay for things we picked up with our money to a cashier.
     
     In these shops they tend to play some music for us... to put us into some mood, I guess. On Christmass time is use to be a Christmass kind of music,
     
     but generally it is really very commercial music, often even folk music or songs for kids.
     
     When I said that DPP is as metal asmusic in these shops - it was a joke - I can not even imagine metal music to be ever played in SHOPS.
     
     When I said that DPP is as goth metal as music in these shops, then it was also a joke. In fact goth metal (OR Goth Rock) is very probably the very last choice for a music in these SHOPS. Even funeral music is more probable.
     
     If you do not know what are MONEY, or what I mean by BYUING... well, then I am lost. I guess you should learn on your own. :-P

     mermaid wrote on 10.11.2009 at 12:47

162. Almagest,
     
     Princess is not studying anything, wake up!
     if she wouldshe did mention it on her blog - she mentioned there everything, every massage, every gym... so we know that she was not there for two weeks...
     
     off course NOT because she is lazy, but she had a COLD. Very terriblecold.No doubt she will have it for 4 more months... so, unfortunatelly NO GYM. :-((
     
     And yes, I am sarcastic, because in the same time she did do more then one song per day, so she has like 10 songs ready already,
     and she did SING, daily! for weeks...!
     
     How specialized are her illnesses!
     
     But back to topic:no, she has no time to study, Almagest.

     mermaid wrote on 10.11.2009 at 12:59

163. something interesting for a change:
     
     DEB:
     "Tuesday, 10 November 2009
     Pilates and rain
     Hi all;=)
     
     Tomorrow I am going to see a personal trainer at a pilates/yoga studio here in the city. I feel that I want some new inspiration and development with my exercising and pilates and yoga are great forms both for shaping the body as getting the mind to relax. I will of course tell you everything after the meeting tomorrow;=)
     
     Today its so grey outside again and I just wanna take a walk, but quite boring when its raining...I know that there´s no bad weather if you dress properly so I guess I just need to do it;=)
     In the afternoon we are going to play bowling;=) Its a fun thing to do and even if I am no good at it, I think its fun.
     Now, some rain celebration for us all;=) Enjoy!
     Posted by Anette Olzon at 11:45 8 comments
     
     Monday, 9 November 2009
     A christmas carol
     Tonight we went to the movies to see "A christmas carol" from Disney. It was really good and with a good pointer to be nicer towards others and embrace the x-mas spirit.
     Posted by Anette Olzon at 21:20 18 comments
     
     Bik bok
     
     Yesterday we took a little walk in the big mall we have outside the city. I checked some stores and one that has nice clothes at the moment is Bik Bok. I love jeans and the jeans are cool and different. I want all of these. Then the Michael Jackson inspired jackets and cardigans are on my wishing list. The corset top is also available in red and that one I am thinking of having with my leather pants.
     Posted by Anette Olzon at 12:34 25 comments
     
     Long sleep
     
     Today we woke up at 12;=) hehe...guess sleep was needed. And since its the only day we dont need to go up early and drive my son to school it was just ok to sleep.
     
     Now just chilling with some coffee and then it´ll be a long walk cause I am still not free from the long and hard cold I have so the gym cant be done in some more days. I havent exercised in 2 weeks now and it sucks! But this cold is a very long one and I know that if I would go and run for 30 min it would be worse again. I dont have any time for that.
     
     This week is off from the studio and that is just fine., cause next week and the week after that we are gonna be there. I also have two performances with the Rasmus coming up. One in the Dome at nov 20 and then a tv-show in Finland nov 26.
     
     Enjoy the day;=)
     Posted by Anette Olzon at 12:19"

     mermaid wrote on 10.11.2009 at 15:12

164. this one used to be such a beautifull song, myfavourite one, actually.. all these years
     
     and now I realized only when 3:08... what they are singing.
     
     :-((
     
     

     mermaid wrote on 10.11.2009 at 15:18

165. @mermaid
     
     I didn't say we don't have "SHOPS".On the contrary,i said that our "SHOPS" aren't called that,and that most of our "SHOPS" here are of Greek owners.
     
     I can give you some names of the "SHOPS" we have here,the places we buy food and all those things you mentioned:
     
     Sklavenitis
     Masoutis
     AB Vasilopoulos
     Veropoulos
     Larisa
     Kangaroo(yes i'm serious)
     
     These are the big chain markets we have in Greece.As you can see,all of them are Greek(even the Kangaroo one).
     
     And of course we have two(only two)foreign markets:Aldi and Lidl.
     
     If Sleeping Sun was here,he could tell you that we don't have markets called Tesco.
     But we have other markets.

     Legeon wrote on 10.11.2009 at 15:30

166. Dear Lord,this woman is sooooo busy...I almost feel sorry for her...All those walks,and that exercise,all this shopping,all these coffee breaks...
     
     You know what the funny thing is?That me,will all this studying and working and not spending that much money because i have other things to spend them on(food,books) and all this stress about my life,
     i still feel sorry for her.Really.I do.
     
     I mean,i like talking walks too,i like shopping and i like coffee breaks,but not every day!It's boring to death!

     Legeon wrote on 10.11.2009 at 15:35

167. Mmmh, the brain fairy didn't pass yet around here!!!
     

     OceanWithin wrote on 10.11.2009 at 16:23

168. @Iris
     "I think it would be even more effective if you also write them a letter with such point :) The more the better :)"
     You are absolutely right.
     
     "Though it is a bit strange that being adults (with their bodies at least) and after several years from 2005 they still bring it up in media :( Would our points actually influence them if they don't (or don't want to)understand it themselves?! ;) "
     
     If the band members or former members can't/don't wanna be be adults, we (the fans) should at least show them that we can be adults, and that WE DESERVE a band that appears in media because of music (bad or not) and not for these kind of news.
     If we became childish, we get what we deserve... a childish band !

     lmcb wrote on 10.11.2009 at 16:51

169. celisajan: I've given up to try and get something into your self-righteous brain, too.
     
     Everyone else is able to understand that some actions are simply WRONG ... regardless of the background. Whether someone "deserves" it or not (and let's not forget that accusations of greed or arrogance are subjective, they cannot be proven factually in order to make them exempt from punishment) ... character assassination (technically: libel) IS wrong. Self-defence (Notwehr)? Hahahahaha. Not applicable in this case. If anything, it would be self-administered justice (Selbstjustiz). Tuomas acted like the plaintiff (Ankläger), judge and hangman in one person. The purely theoretical possibility that his accusations MAY have been correct (insofar as such statements can be considered factually correct at all) excuses NOTHING. Character assassination is NEVER an adequate instrument. As I said, the suspicion of arrogance (or hubris) and greed falls right back on Tuomas, and in my opinion, would be a more likely explanation for his actions. (I'm not CLAIMING that this is what he is, by the way, just stating my personal, tentative assessment of his motivations, tentative since I do not know him personally, and it may be noticed that the effect of my statements is far smaller as I am not considered an authority or reliable informant about his personality or actions by the geeral public, or anyone else.) It seems to me rather as if his claims are mere projection: people have noticed repeatedly that he could have been "spoiled" by Ewo the same way he claims Tarja was "spoiled" by Marcelo.
     
     mermaid: I have never claimed that Princess studies at this point and I agree that it is improbable to the highest degree.
     
     By the way, notice how I have taken care to avoid the word mentioned by lmcb here. :-p
     

     Almagest wrote on 10.11.2009 at 17:19

170. @ Orion
     "Your personal experience in interviews have nothing to do with Tuomas's deliberately ignoring such question ,when it is easier to give an answer to it, specially if he doesn't going to write poppy/poppier stuff :)"
     
     The question was quite long, if I remember right, and Tuomas commented first about song lenghts. It's possible that he just forgot the poppy question and that's why the journalist should have asked it again.
     
     You ignored my opinion about the journalist, not my personal experience. ;)
     
     "It is their problem, that they didn't it [to find a perfect singer]."
     
     They received 2000 CDs and Anette was best of them in their opinion. I don't think the band sees it as a problem.
     
     "The whole letter was "exposing" the personality of their singer, and her supposedly personal qualities like being greedy, cold, diva-bitchy and so on. Thanks to this very letter the first singer is being labeled with those words on regulasr basis. Media circus replicated this whole things-now the first usual thing I hear from new NW listeners, that " I heard of this band, they used to kick out their singer cause she was diva" :)"
     
     We can't help if stupid people don't think before judging.
     
     @Almagest
     "No, Anette just didn't want to learn ANYTHING. She just wanted to do what she wanted."
     
     Where did you hear or read about it? From the poem she wrote? That's a lame proof since poetry can be interpreted in many ways.
     
     "Everyone has a right to be alone? But Tarja was fired and her desire to be alone was brought up negatively in that respect (even if it may not have been the real reason)."
     
     What kind of desire to be alone?
     
     "They sure need lots of PR now so that people won't forget them until the next album ;-) They still sell records and merchandise, even in breaks, remember?"
     
     They are going to have media silence for the next year and it has started already. Tuomas told about that in Finnish radio interview.
     
     "Black Beauty: Indeed, I don't think that JesseFinn is a "true fan" either (by the way, it was Tuomas and JesseFinn himself who brought that concept up, not arrogant, elitist Tarja fans). Because a "true fan" likes the music (which the vocals form a central part of), as Tuomas said, not just elements of it ;-)"
     
     I have never said I am a "true fan" of old era. I'm just a fan and fan doesn't have to like everything. :) But this is just an opinion. If you like to, you can concider me as a fan of old era's music and lyrics. Doesn't matter.
     
     @Iris
     "Oh, so you mean that they did such horrible things with helpless Tuomas that there was only one good way to treat them-to get rid of them via such letter, ruining their reputation in public through media? I know it wasn't a rose garden period for him but he found very fast great scapegoats for all it -just to put all the blame on them."
     
     Tuomas commented DPP lyrics in Finnish newspaper that everyone in the band are whipped but most of the whipping Tuomas gives to himself.
     
     ----------
     
     I think it would be pointless from the band to apologize for the letter and some misunderstandings in it. Why should they apologize for something that has not been corrected? Tarja commented in an interview something like "I'm sorry the boys understood us so wrong". That's why Tarja and the band should meet someday in the future and talk about the misunderstandings. After that the band could have something to apologize for.

     JesseFinn wrote on 10.11.2009 at 19:03

171. @Almagest
     
     I've seen both of them,Marcelo and Ewo.
     
     In Tarja's concert,Marcelo was helping the roadies with setting up the stage and everything.
     In Nightwish concert,Ewo was beating up some kids that tried to go a little closer to the stage and the backstage room,before the show.
     
     THIS is not "biased".This is what i saw.

     Legeon wrote on 10.11.2009 at 19:56

172. @celisajan
     
     Your "last" comment is great and I agree with you!"Bla Bla" continues here by few same people and nothing gonna change.I have not read for a long time their comments because they are so fucking stupid and I really don't care about that kind of talk.
     Let's see what kind of album Nightwish gonna make but I will wait that with a big interest.There will be always people who enjoy their music and nothing else matters!
     Let's keep on Rocking!

     Jimmie wrote on 10.11.2009 at 20:34

173. "I think, he want´s to blame the interviewer..because to ask some disrespektfull and dump question ,needs a sarkasm answer..
     It was sarcasm against the interviewer , and nothing else!! "
     
     Nope, actually if person doesn't want to add more wood to the flames through media and to leave the past in the past, such kind of question would be met with short answer like "no", for example, not with the full tale about the joke with details in order to show supposed sarcasm or whatever.
     It was just another lame official bringing up of the whole story. Period. No excuse for that.
     
     "should at least show them that we can be adults, and that WE DESERVE a band that appears in media because of music (bad or not) and not for these kind of news.
     If we became childish, we get what we deserve... a childish band !"
     
     This band also appears in media with bringing up the same story over and over again and we won't give our silent approval of it and ignore it. You can ignore if you like and approve, but others won't :)
     Because it would have been fainthearted. And this band became childish a while back already :)
     
     "Tuomas commented DPP lyrics in Finnish newspaper that everyone in the band are whipped but most of the whipping Tuomas gives to himself. "
     
     Ha,ha, yeah, it is much easier to say such words afterwords, after the deed was done, since it wasn't him who was fired via such letter, wasn't him who through media was labeled like greedy diva with evil husband, and so on, and so forth. That's the difference: he made public scapegoats out of them, but he made anguished half-repentant victim ( with sweet touch of sinner) out of himself- very good pose actually and very nice PR for DPP :)

     Iris wrote on 10.11.2009 at 20:50

174. @JesseFinn
     "The question was quite long, if I remember right, and Tuomas commented first about song lenghts. It's possible that he just forgot the poppy question and that's why the journalist should have asked it again. "
     
     No, that's silly :). The question wasn't that long and Tuomas is a bit too young to have such instant sclerosis. He didn't forget that, he just didn't give straight answer to a not so hard question, that's all, almost ignored it and never really answered. That makes it very funny. That's all.
     
     "You ignored my opinion about the journalist, not my personal experience. ;) "
     
     I read your opinion, don't worry, but not every journalist has lots of time at each interview and if he sees that person gives such evasive vague-like answer, he would more likely prefer to ask all of his other prepared questions, to get it all in time, rather to ask it again and again and waste precious time on the same question :)

     Orion wrote on 10.11.2009 at 21:10

175. "I have not read for a long time their comments because they are so fucking stupid and I really don't care about that kind of talk. "
     
     What a "smart", "mature" and "reasoned" comment from NNF :) Well, what else can you expect from NNF :)
     

     Xena wrote on 10.11.2009 at 21:12

176. Oh my god, I didn't have time to come here for a few days and now there are like 50 new comments :D I'm starting to get lost here...
     
     @Almagest: I completely agree with your last post. Everybody is free to try and find arguments for Tuomas, but to think there could be something that actually justifies the letter is just stupid.
     
     @JesseFinn: "We can't help if stupid people don't think before judging. "
     
     No, we can't. But NW could, because their fans judge because of what NW told everybody.It is both their and the fan's fault.
     
     "Tuomas commented DPP lyrics in Finnish newspaper that everyone in the band are whipped but most of the whipping Tuomas gives to himself."
     
     And he has the right to "bash" himself openly. He doesn't have the right to do that to others.
     To that, if someone talks bad about himself, that also gets him sympathy. Not necessary, but it happens.
     
     "I think it would be pointless from the band to apologize for the letter and some misunderstandings in it. Why should they apologize for something that has not been corrected? Tarja commented in an interview something like "I'm sorry the boys understood us so wrong". That's why Tarja and the band should meet someday in the future and talk about the misunderstandings. After that the band could have something to apologize for."
     
     They don't need to apologize for what was in the letter, if they still believe the content is correct (though I wouldn't object if they did, of course) - which is the part of it that could be caused by misunderstandings. But as a start, I'd be satisfied if they apologized only for the way they fired her on their website.
     Something like "We want to express our regret for firing Tarja via open letter, we understand now it was wrong to handle everything in this way and wish we had come up with a better solution." etc.
     
     oh,and I just found your last post where you directed something to me - guess most of it was already answered by others, but I'll add one or two things.
     
     "Anette studied classical singing for three years but she quit when her voice was changing. Singing in other bands is not a good school since their music was way more different compared to NW. I believe she will improve in her own way. :)"
     
     I didn't hear she studied classical singing, I heard she studied music and also had some singing lessons. Where did you get this?
     But if it's correct, that's of no use, because she doesn't USE classical technique. So the fact she studied it can't improve her singing *now*, especially since she doesn't study it anymore. Tarja still did when she sang with Nightwish at the beginning.
     
     "The band called Tarja in the letter "an old friend" and I don't think they mean ex-friend. The boys were sad they had to fire Tarja. I think most of the bitterness was because of Marcelo, that's what I have understood from interviews. But of course, we don't know what happened behind the curtains and the whole bitterness might have been just because of bunch of misunderstandings, which is very sad.. :/ "
     
     If you think that firing you through an open letter that includes several reproaches against you and that the whole world is going to read is an action a friend of yours could do and still be your friend, you have a very different view of what friendship is than practically everybody else. And so have the Nightwish guys, if they still consider themselves as Tarja's friends. In my opinion, that's something a friend would NEVER do.
     Maybe they were friends before the letter, I don't think so, but I don't know. But they weren't friends anymore when they published it.
     
     "Bashing Nightwish because of the fans sounds funny. :) I'm quite sure there are people who bash Tarja just because you do. And I'm sure that some bashers think the same way you do. I have seen bashers who bash only because they think it's entertaining and some bashers do their thing because the others do too and they get courage to follow them. This happenes on both side. It doesn't matter why people bash the other side because bashing happens whatever the reasons are and that's what I meant by endless circle. "
     
     You misunderstood me. I'm not "bashing" NW because of their fans, I do that because their fans bash Tarja which is based on the band's behavior, actions and quotes. It is basically the band's fault that their fans bash Tarja, and therefore I can criticize them for that - until they apologize and so distance themselves from what their fans do.
     And if you think what I'm doing here is bashing - while I don't think I'm insulting anyone or stuff like that - then what you're doing here is bashing, too - you bash ONW-Fans who criticize Nightwish here. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with your comments, but why do you tell us to stop, but don't do it yourself?

     Earwen wrote on 10.11.2009 at 21:18

177. JesseFinn
     
     "They received 2000 CDs and Anette was best of them in their opinion. I don't think the band sees it as a problem. "
     
     Well, somebody used to post here links of singing of those other competitors, some of them were clearly better than Anette :) In their opinion Anette was clearly more suitable (in reality doesn't actually mean "best") especially she was very persevering to get this job, actually another person already explained it well on MFF before.
     Band is known to change their opinions a lot, mostly Tuomas - and from one side to completely another in short period of time :) And there were already problems on her account in the band within 2 years :) So far from perfect all in all:)

     Orion wrote on 10.11.2009 at 21:26

178. @JesseFinn
     
     "I have never said I am a "true fan" of old era. I'm just a fan and fan doesn't have to like everything. :) But this is just an opinion. If you like to, you can concider me as a fan of old era's music and lyrics. Doesn't matter. "
     
     You tried to say that you a fan of Old Era, and you are not, you are a fan of NW music and lyrics in toto and a fan of New Era's voice in particular, thus a full fan of NNW. And no, in order to be a fan of Old era really, you need to like whole thing in it, including the voice (which was as already said quite dominant in OE ). But you don't like the voice and singing in Old Era, so you are not really a fan of Old Era:). Just to make things clear.

     Black Beauty wrote on 10.11.2009 at 21:35

179. @JesseFinn
     
     "I think it would be pointless from the band to apologize for the letter and some misunderstandings in it. Why should they apologize for something that has not been corrected? That's why Tarja and the band should meet someday in the future and talk about the misunderstandings. After that the band could have something to apologize for."
     
     No, it wouldn't be pointless to apologize for "getting rid" of those people in such low and cowardly form - I mean publishing this open letter on website and creating this media chaos - they really should apologize for making it like that, for such action. And after that they could meet, discuss misunderstandings, comment on them and so on :)

     Iris wrote on 10.11.2009 at 21:40

180. @Iris
     "they really should apologize for making it like that, for such action. And after that they could meet, discuss misunderstandings, comment on them and so on :) "
     
     I agree.

     lmcb wrote on 10.11.2009 at 22:26

181. JesseFinn: Anette was best in their opinion? Perhaps in Ewo's opinion ...
     
     You may be a fan of the instrumental parts and the lyrics, but obviously you are not a fan of the vocal lines, even though Tuomas wrote them, too, not Tarja. Kind of strange. And not liking a central and characteristic element of the music at all is not just "not liking everything".
     
     It's like claiming to love your girlfriend when you can't stand her looks, or her whole behaviour, at all ... that would be quite strange, even if you love everything else about her.
     
     Earwen: Tarja actually studied from 1996 in Sibelius Academy (though increasingly neglected her studies after AFF came out), and again from 2001 to 2003 or 2004 at least. Not only at the beginning.
     

     Almagest wrote on 10.11.2009 at 23:00

182. i really think that Tuomas made the joke about sending a letter through the post to Anette on stage was aimed at the interviewer and sarcasm. Ever get sick of having to having to hear about or get asked about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over AGAIN?
     
     And furthermore, ever THINK that he made the comment about pissing in the street as " god, i can't do anything without someone watching or taking things I SAID the wrong way! Doesn't he have the right to invite who he wants in his home and show it off?
     
     Further more and more and more... he has REPEATEDly said that he likes the diversity he can take his band in whatever direction he chooses. Not just metal, ballads or if he wants poppy!
     
     Seems funny that the shittiest album with the SHITTiest singer did better than any of the other ones selling more than the previous 6. hmmmm....funny isn't it?
     
     How about some cheese with all the wine in here?

     two cents wrote on 11.11.2009 at 09:41

183. "and people like me who likes Tarjas and NW and NNWs Musik!!!! "
     
     Says the person who started and starts the buzz when it comes to NNW, Tuomas, Anette, but who never started it when it came directly to Tarja :)
     
     @Almagest
     Nice point.
     And about Tarja's studies, yeah, since she was a beginner in music studying when she started in NW, and still quite young when studing and continue studying,it is good she made effort to finsih her studies at that time :) I read she studied till 2003.

     Orion wrote on 11.11.2009 at 11:48

184. OceanWithin wrote:
     
     "Mmmh, the brain fairy didn't pass yet around here!!! "
     _________________________________
     OceanWithin,
     
     what would any brain fairy do around NW?
     This is clearly not their teritory... I would say that within 50 km around NW you certainly can not find any brain fairy .... ever.
     
     
     

     mermaid wrote on 11.11.2009 at 11:49

185. "Seems funny that the shittiest album with the SHITTiest singer did better than any of the other ones selling more than the previous 6. hmmmm....funny isn't it?"
     
     What's even funnier is some people's stupidity.
     
     And no,it's not strange.After all these years of recognition and very successful PR,after LOADS of advertisements and after making the MOST MAINSTREAM metal album of the decade,it's quite natural it was so successful.
     
     And i don't think that it "did better",if we consider that some previous album did very good without NW being world-known and without having that much advertisement.I remind you that the album that became platinum first was Century Child.
     
     And since when the amount of sold copies distinguishes quality of an album(or a singer)?

     Legeon wrote on 11.11.2009 at 12:32

186. "Says the person who started and starts the buzz when it comes to NNW, Tuomas, Anette, but who never started it when it came directly to Tarja :) "
     
     Ok I try explain it again, only for you Orion, because it seems you are to... ??? to understand my opinion...
     
     Lets start:
     Here in THIS THREAD i don´t read many bad words for Tarja... but I read a lot of offends against Tuomas ,Anette and the people who likes them!!
     I talk HERE WITH YOU and the others who are writing and reading HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     When Iam somewere out there and there is one who says about Tarja, she is a fat and ugly person, Iwould say , to this who talks so, that he/ she is unfair, too!!!
     Because in my opinion Tarja is a beauty and succesful woman.. and Iam not one of them who are laughing about her and say she is the bad one in this story...
     In my opinion : when you never know the real story behind the walls, you never got the right to judge over the situation. Thats MY point! And people who offend others , without knowing the whole story , are superficial!!!
     
     But HERE the most people are mocking and offending Anette and Tuomas... God, if this people (Tuomas and Anette) are soooo shitty, why you spend the time for them???? Some people maybe thinking Iam brainless...ok...but the same people are talking big shit here..Orion you are one of them..!!
     Know understanding???..I hope so, because Iam tired of this bullshit here!!
     
     
     @Jimmie
     Thanks for your words
     keep on rocking :-)
     Turn the musik on and lets go!!!
     Today I will hear Metallica and ACDC... my feelings tell me so....
     Bye Jimmie , have a great day, without dump words from frustrated people ... ;-)

     celisajan wrote on 11.11.2009 at 12:39

187. @ two cents
     
     "really think that Tuomas made the joke about sending a letter through the post to Anette on stage was aimed at the interviewer and sarcasm. Ever get sick of having to having to hear about or get asked about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over AGAIN? "
     
     If he just can't give short answer without going into details with supposed sarcasm (witch is very questionable and doesn't look like sarcasm actually) and without bring up the whole story again, it is really lame of him.
     Besides, if you are asked about the same thing over and over again, the smartest way to give short answer like "no", not start the whole act which ends in bringing up story over again and flaming up the thing.
     
     "Further more and more and more... he has REPEATEDly said that he likes the diversity he can take his band in whatever direction he chooses. Not just metal, ballads or if he wants poppy! "
     
     It's already been pointed out that becoming generic commercial mainstreamish is not what diversity is about. If he likes he can take the band to pop or pop-rock to say best, of course. He already is doing that actually:)
     
     "Seems funny that the shittiest album with the SHITTiest singer did better than any of the other ones selling more than the previous 6. hmmmm....funny isn't it? "
     
     Well, since a lot of mainstream pop crap is sold very good, even far better than DPP there is nothing funny about it- mainstream poppy stuff sells very good :)

     Iris wrote on 11.11.2009 at 13:20

188. i can not resist but to comment one more on this
     RESPONSIBILITY of interviewer and
     Tero´s RESPONSIBILITY.
     
     So, if Maestro will next time show his naked ass ... or, OK, his little Maestro to interviewer... and photo will be published here afterwords..
     
     WHO´S fault it will be?
     
     - Maestro´s, for showing his dick?
     - Interviewer´s because he did the interview.... and poor maestro maybe did not like his questions/hair/voice/mic/hands/smile/morning... etc... simply maestro was not in a proper mood to behave
     - OR Tero´s , for publishing such stuff here?
     - or weather should be responsible?, or goverment?, or Marcelo, etc..?
     ______________________________________
     
     When I am reading your posts... I am not so sure. Untill now I always believed that an adult person should be capable to behave... if not all the time, then at least when on TV, or with camera taking his pictures...
     
     but now I am not so sure. On the other hand there are interesting pictures to be expected... sure. :-))

     mermaid wrote on 11.11.2009 at 13:54

189. @two cents
     
     "And furthermore, ever THINK that he made the comment about pissing in the street as " god, i can't do anything without someone watching or taking things I SAID the wrong way! Doesn't he have the right to invite who he wants in his home and show it off? "
     
     
     If he really meant that, than there are far better words and expressions he could use to tell this. But he of all things chose "pissing in the street" thing. :)) Such choice of wording is really LOL Well, maybe "pissing" bothers him for some reasons :D
     Yes, he has the right to invite whom he wants. But since he already invited journalists to his other home and showed it off in every way,so it is even on youtube now, making now fuss in interview and finding it unexpectedly strange that other journalists now take interest in his new home is kinda overboard thing. :)
     

     Polly wrote on 11.11.2009 at 14:08

190. @Almagest: Yes, you're right. Thanks =)
     
     two cents wrote: "i really think that Tuomas made the joke about sending a letter through the post to Anette on stage was aimed at the interviewer and sarcasm. Ever get sick of having to having to hear about or get asked about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over AGAIN?"
     
     You forget it's his own fault he's asked about it over and over again. He was the one who decided to part with Tarja in that public way, and he knew that there would be a big media circus. If there hadn't been an open letter, but simply something like "we part because of personal and musical differences" nobody would talk about it by now. And he wouldn't be bothered with questions like that and wouldn't "have to" bring up such a tasteless joke.
     
     "Further more and more and more... he has REPEATEDly said that he likes the diversity he can take his band in whatever direction he chooses. Not just metal, ballads or if he wants poppy!"
     
     Of course he has the right to do it. And we have the right to criticize it. And we also criticize the fact he doesn't admit it.
     
     "Seems funny that the shittiest album with the SHITTiest singer did better than any of the other ones selling more than the previous 6. hmmmm....funny isn't it? "
     
     Since when does commercial success mean something's good? Do you consider Britney Spears the most talented singer of all times?
     To that, there were many people who pre-ordered it because they were curious about New NW, so they bought it without knowing the music (well, maybe Eva, but that's all). I'm sure many of the people who write here against NW bought it, too.
     
     I won't deny that DPP was a very successful album. But that doesn't mean it's good.

     Earwen wrote on 11.11.2009 at 14:10

191. Yacky interview, the joke in it is really ugly :(

     Fenrir wrote on 11.11.2009 at 15:00

192. Anette hired a "personal trainer"... that's all she needed now. But why isn't she hiring a music professor? That's what she really needs :-D

     Kiri wrote on 11.11.2009 at 15:04

193. @celisajan
     
     "Here in THIS THREAD i don´t read many bad words for Tarja... but I read a lot of offends against Tuomas ,Anette and the people who likes them!!
     
     I talk HERE WITH YOU and the others who are writing and reading HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
     
     
     Here also were bad words about Tarja as well and about people who like her or ONW- but it seems you need certain amount of bad words regarding Tarja to decide that it is finally enough to start saying that it is also bad to bash her here :) Really "great" position. Hardly honest at all and very biased. And btw, most people who criticize Olzon here or NNW do not pretend to be their fans, unlike you do regarding Tarja :)
     
     
     "Some people maybe thinking Iam brainless...ok...but the same people are talking big shit here..Orion you are one of them..!! "
     
     Well, most people do not talk shit here, including me, they give arguements based on public actions of NNW, and all you give is just general whining that we don't close eyes on really nasty things NNW does openely, do not approve them and criticize them. And if you think that criticizing such is "talking shit", then you should wake-up from your fanatism.
     
     And actually it is you and your fellow friends, whose best position is that people who criticize NNW are talking shit and are stupid. :) So basically it is you who are talking shit here. :)
     
     And it is really even more funny to see your complains about dump words from frustrated people , when you have to be really frustrated yourself if you come here daily, read all the comments here and comment them, knowing at the same time that most of them won't be pinky drooling ones, since it is not a NW fan thread from their offical forum here :)

     Orion wrote on 11.11.2009 at 16:03

194. "And actually it is you and your fellow friends, whose best position is that people who criticize NNW are talking shit and are stupid. :) So basically it is you who are talking shit here. :)
     
     And it is really even more funny to see your complains about dump words from frustrated people , when you have to be really frustrated yourself if you come here daily, read all the comments here and comment them, knowing at the same time that most of them won't be pinky drooling ones, since it is not a NW fan thread from their offical forum here :)"
     
     I come daily, because for me its funny to read this shit, know I can see whats the problem is, you WANT to see it so and nothing else..
     But Iam sitting here and have a big smile in my face... You see me as a frustrate woman??? thats wrong!! Sorry you can´t look through walls..I tell you before..lol!! Bye I must leave this great talk for a while ..I want come back , when NW comes back, with their new album...SMILE...no...FAT-SMILE

     celisajan wrote on 11.11.2009 at 18:00

195. @celisajan
     
     "I talk HERE WITH YOU and the others who are writing and reading HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "
     
     Funny,you said the same thing in the OTHER thread too.So,you defend Anette and Tuomas in the previous or this thread?
     
     And let me ask you a question.Since you respect sooo much Tarja and you are so just and fair,why don't you GO to her threads and defend her?
     I'm not saying to defend her here,but why don't you go THERE to defend her?
     
     "But HERE the most people are mocking and offending Anette and Tuomas... God, if this people (Tuomas and Anette) are soooo shitty, why you spend the time for them????"
     
     We spend time to criticize them.People spend time also to criticize things they don't like or approve,that why there is such thing,as "critique".
     
     "Some people maybe thinking Iam brainless...ok...but the same people are talking big shit here..Orion you are one of them..!!"
     
     Let me tell this one more time,and i hope it will be the last one:
     The difference between you and people like me or Orion is that we criticize Anette and Tuomas(and Tarja) based on FACTS.But what you do,is answering back based on you personal opinion about us,and your thoughts about how bitter or brainless we are.
     Well newsflash for you:WE don't give a shit about what you think about us or our brains or our lives.As long as we talk about facts,we expect people to answer about these facts,with other facts,not pseudo-psychoanalysis.
     If of course you have no other argument than that,save it for yourself.
     
     "Know understanding???..I hope so, because Iam tired of this bullshit here!!"
     
     Then it's pretty weird you come back here everyday and read all those comments and still answer back with the same lame opinions about us and no real argument.
     
     "In my opinion : when you never know the real story behind the walls, you never got the right to judge over the situation. Thats MY point! And people who offend others , without knowing the whole story , are superficial!!!"
     
     We don't need to know the full story in order to see that NW decided to humiliate Tarja and make every NW fan believe that she's an evil bitch.
     And no matter how bad things were or how bad tarja(may) treated them,they still had no right to humiliate her like that.
     And don't even get me started about their lies.We know that they lied from a very simple and obvious fact:
     Anette is doing the same things they accused Tarja for,in the 1/5 of time,but they have no problem with that.
     
     "but who knows how long Tarja and Marcello make dirty games with Tuomas behind the walls, so the fans can´t see or hear this , nobody here knows it.. i don´t know , too...but its possible that there are much problems and Tuomas was feeling treatend really unfair"
     
     It's interesting how you say you are fair and just but in the same time you find excuses for what Tuomas did to Tarja...And just so it happens,these excuses make Tuomas look like he's the poor victim,the martyr.
     No,you're not fooling anyone you know.
     And it's more easy for everyone to believe that they just were annoyed that everyone paid attention to Tarja and that she demanded the money she deserved,than to believe that Tarja is an evil witch that had so much free time on her hands and so much bitterness inside her for the man that made her famous,that she decided to play with his feelings.
     See how stupid your theory is?
     
     "a example
     A woman , who murderd her man is a murder..thats a fakt...
     but if this woman was treat bad by her man years over years..and she can´t fight against him, so she murderd him at least, this woman do this , because she is desperate... "
     
     I agree with that BUT it's because this woman had no other choice.
     NW had a choice.They had a choice NOT to humiliate her like that.

     Legeon wrote on 11.11.2009 at 20:43

196. "In my opinion : when you never know the real story behind the walls, you never got the right to judge over the situation. Thats MY point! And people who offend others , without knowing the whole story , are superficial!!!"
     
     Congratulations for your behaviour, celisajan. I really like it, but dislike the fact that you are kinda late. Actually 4 years late. You should have had shown up when a letter was published in a certain website. :)

     Mwaha wrote on 11.11.2009 at 20:48

197. "I come daily, because for me its funny to read this shit, know I can see whats the problem is, you WANT to see it so and nothing else.. "
     
     Well, hardly a person who enjoys to read daily a "shit" (as you call it) and spends so many time on it, can be really adequate. Such thing can be done really only out of frustration :) Cause a devoted fan of "shit reading" is nothing more than a "shit reader" then. ;)
     I do not want to see it like that and don't make any efforts to do so.
     I just see it, because it is what it is, that's all. Stating the obvious.
     Nothing else.
     
     "But Iam sitting here and have a big smile in my face... You see me as a frustrate woman???"
     
     Well, sometimes frustrated people really need something to get them out of their frustration and they try their best to put smiles on their face by using all kind of stimulations (drinking alchohol, smoking, consuming drugs, being "shit readers" etc)
     
     "Bye I must leave this great talk for a while ..I want come back , when NW comes back, with their new album...SMILE...no...FAT-SMILE"
     
     Well, you talk about it for a third time already I suppose, it seems you just don't have the guts to leave :)
     

     Orion wrote on 11.11.2009 at 20:54

198. Sorry, but some moments of this interview just sucks :(

     Karen wrote on 11.11.2009 at 20:56

199. No, really.... More than 200 comments!!! I
     If firing Tarja right before the dvd in 2005 and then hiring one of the worst singers that may be were meant for the attracting of media and public attention, mission accomplished SUCCESSFULLY!
     (despite how much I dislike Annette, it's not her fault that she can't sing, and deffinitely it's not her fault the fact that she was chosen to sing in the band)
     
     lol Maestro's holy piss has caused such fuss... (man, I have to read this forum more often, it's so funny) The only thing I don't get is does he relly consider himself so big and famous that can't can't even afford to piss on the street?! Oh, come on, Tommi Boy, give me a break, who do you think you are?..
     
     ...and for some reason I'm still gonna buy their next album (and hear it once, just like DPP).
     Peace!
     p.p. think I was happier when the only thing I knew about Nightwish was the members' names and that they're from Finland.

     vikingsoul wrote on 12.11.2009 at 00:06

200. Dust...nice comment. I couldn't agree more with understanding the pitfalls, mistakes and choices a band makes during their time playing, it is after all about the music, enjoying it and not about their personal lives.
     
     I admit, I was courious as to why they let her go with such a letter and read the 'book' by Mape Orililla and got a better understanding of how this band tolertated the last year with Tarja and her husband. Concerts were cancelled, sometimes twice because her husband didn't want her to play small venues even though they commited to play with them until DDP was completed. He didn't even tell her about some of the gigs, just made the decision himself because they couldn't be bothered.
     
     Tarja wanted to leave the band and yes, it was going to happen because she wanted her solo career and certainly not in tune with the rest of the band. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even Tarja wanted to move on. She matured faster in their younger days and was annoyed with their antics. I would be too, she was their singer and needed to be in a more sutle environment to protect her voice. But, the band lost money, exposure and fans because of cancelled tours and were virtually held hostage to those two's demands out of fear of more cancelled concerts back in 2005. Many people were affected by those cancellations. Tech guys, people working for the venues, lots of people other than the band, and neither of them even gave a thought about it. Sickness and serious stuff to cancel yes, people understand that but for their reasons...Tuomas and Tarja both agreed that NW was going to be the primary focus for 2005.
     
     Oh, it was definately about the money, and money produces greed, divas and the worst in people. There was no lying about it in the letter.
     
     NW lost, Tarja lost and so did the fans. I felt sorry for the woman in the beginning because of the way the letter was released and what was said, but not anymore. They tolerated the last of the concert run because they had no other choice. If it were me, I would have wrote in big fat letters in laser beam on the arenas wall after the 2005 show, "Tarja, you and your greedy husband now ARE FIRED!"
     
     I view Tarja herself as a victim somewhat, because of her choice in a husband. I'm not saying he's a horrible guy. I have lots of nice friends I hang out with, but their scruples suck and I wouldn't trust them with 50 cents. Besides, some people loved to be controlled, isolated and told what to do.
     
     The band made no money from the book, only the author who I would think would have remained objective. He only printed what everyone in the band had to say, not just Tuomas Holopainen. They all wanted her out. Even Marco threatened to quit the band because of her. Just what the hell was Tuomas supposed to do?
     
     Tuomas Holopainen is by no means a saint, but evil, no. Just a person forced to make a no win decision in a difficult situation along with the rest of the band and then get shit on, blamed and deemed evil for firing the ìnnocient queen of `Nightwish.
     
     How foolish to fall for a pretty face!
     
     I like Maestro, his lyics and music methods, but he is not my fav.

     two cents wrote on 12.11.2009 at 00:14

201. "Well, you talk about it for a third time already I suppose, it seems you just don't have the guts to leave :) "
     
     .....because
     I can´t life without you.... your the most important human in my life ;-) thats why I come back again and again!!! Its hard for me to leave you.... :-)but now...: Kisses and bye

     celisajan wrote on 12.11.2009 at 01:48

202. "Just a person forced to make a no win decision in a difficult situation along with the rest of the band and then get shit on, blamed and deemed evil for firing the ìnnocient queen of `Nightwish"
     
     Do you live in another universe or something?Because in this universe,this "no win decision" gave them extreme fame that still goes on,made them look like innocent victims,and made Tarja look like "evil" and got shit on.
     
     "Oh, it was definately about the money, and money produces greed, divas and the worst in people. There was no lying about it in the letter."
     
     That's one wonderful story you created there,but seriously,don't be so naive.Don't believe and interpret things in the way NW say them.
     Let me explain you what i mean:
     Of course Tarja asked for more money,for the very simple reason that she deserved them.Everyone knows that the reason Tuomas insists on writing songs only by himself is loyalties.I have no doubt that this was one of the reasons for not paying Tarja as much as she deserved.
     I also believe the "canceled US shows" stuff,but not because they are "small venues with small fees".Tarja toured these places the last two years.
     The problem with NW was that she was paid less,and that when you're in a band,you can't demand things you need,and if you demand them,it makes you look like a diva.The dressing room,for example.
     

     Legeon wrote on 12.11.2009 at 12:07

203. two cents wrote: "I admit, I was courious as to why they let her go with such a letter and read the 'book' by Mape Orililla and got a better understanding of how this band tolertated the last year with Tarja and her husband. Concerts were cancelled, sometimes twice because her husband didn't want her to play small venues even though they commited to play with them until DDP was completed. He didn't even tell her about some of the gigs, just made the decision himself because they couldn't be bothered. "
     
     You got ALL this information from the book or the letter, which were both influenced only by NW and not by Tarja or Marcelo, and yet you take everything as facts without knowing the other side and judge Tarja and Marcelo because of it. That's just stupid.
     
     "Tarja wanted to leave the band and yes, it was going to happen because she wanted her solo career and certainly not in tune with the rest of the band. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even Tarja wanted to move on. She matured faster in their younger days and was annoyed with their antics. I would be too, she was their singer and needed to be in a more sutle environment to protect her voice."
     
     I agree on that.
     
     " But, the band lost money, exposure and fans because of cancelled tours and were virtually held hostage to those two's demands out of fear of more cancelled concerts back in 2005. "
     
     No, they didn't. The concerts were either cancelled because of Tarja's sickness - which you say is justified - or because they *didn't* bring money - call that greed if you like - so the band would have lost money if they hadn't cancelled the shows.
     
     "Many people were affected by those cancellations. Tech guys, people working for the venues, lots of people other than the band, and neither of them even gave a thought about it. Sickness and serious stuff to cancel yes, people understand that but for their reasons...Tuomas and Tarja both agreed that NW was going to be the primary focus for 2005. "
     
     And you know their reasons because they told you? Or because you believe everything that comes from Tuomas and Co.?
     
     "Oh, it was definately about the money, and money produces greed, divas and the worst in people. There was no lying about it in the letter. "
     
     Yes, it does. Doesn't mean that happened to Tarja,nor does it mean it happened only to Tarja and not to the other members (and Tuomas earned a lot more money than Tarja!)
     
     "NW lost, Tarja lost and so did the fans. I felt sorry for the woman in the beginning because of the way the letter was released and what was said, but not anymore. They tolerated the last of the concert run because they had no other choice. If it were me, I would have wrote in big fat letters in laser beam on the arenas wall after the 2005 show, "Tarja, you and your greedy husband now ARE FIRED!"
     
     Wow. Really. I haven't yet found somebody who said that their way to fire Tarja was to kind, even most NNW-Fans agree the letter was wrong. You really seem to be either a blind and fanatic fangirl/fanboy or incredibly heartless or incredibly stupid. I can't decide.
     
     Sorry, I don't usually talk this way, not even to people who disagree with me, but this text is simply horrible.
     
     "I view Tarja herself as a victim somewhat, because of her choice in a husband. I'm not saying he's a horrible guy. I have lots of nice friends I hang out with, but their scruples suck and I wouldn't trust them with 50 cents. Besides, some people loved to be controlled, isolated and told what to do. "
     
     Again: Any FACT you blame Marcelo for? Instead of just parroting what the band said and spread their lies?
     
     "The band made no money from the book, only the author who I would think would have remained objective. He only printed what everyone in the band had to say, not just Tuomas Holopainen. "
     
     Oh, the band made no money from the book? I'd like to see your source. I didn't hear that, but I'm not that informed about the book, and if you say something like that, I'm sure you have your reason for that. I'd like to see it.
     
     And the author remained objective and printed what everybody in the band had to say?! Then explain: Why didn't he make a long interview with Tarja AFTER Hartwall, as it was planned, but instead called her in the middle of the night and insisted she should do the interview now - BEFORE the split?!
     
     "They all wanted her out. Even Marco threatened to quit the band because of her. Just what the hell was Tuomas supposed to do? "
     
     Fire her. Why not? He had every right to do that. But he should have just told her to leave *in her face* and handle everything in a *professional* and *adult* way!
     
     "Tuomas Holopainen is by no means a saint, but evil, no. Just a person forced to make a no win decision in a difficult situation along with the rest of the band and then get shit on, blamed and deemed evil for firing the ìnnocient queen of `Nightwish. "
     
     Tuomas wasn't FORCED to do that, what are you talking about? He could decide IF he would fire her and HOW he would fire her. And he did!
     
     "How foolish to fall for a pretty face! "
     
     Says the person who blames Tarja and especially Marcelo for everything and defends poor Tuomas who was forced to publish that letter, but hasn't even one ARGUMENT or FACT!

     Earwen wrote on 12.11.2009 at 13:34

204. "it is after all about the music, enjoying it and not about their personal lives."
     
     Well, thanks to this letter NW showed that when it comes to NW it is more about scandals, drama, speculations and digging in someone's personalities and their lives and make it public, so NW is not only about music anymore :)
     
     "Tarja wanted to leave the band and yes, it was going to happen because she wanted her solo career and certainly not in tune with the rest of the band. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even Tarja wanted to move on. She matured faster in their younger days and was annoyed with their antics."
     
     And she announced it to them in advance by the way, and there was no excuse for them to fire her like that in such manner like they did and started that media circus around her and her husband.
     
     The NW book is very biased, mostly aimed to show one side of the story -NW's part that is - at large and portrait them as suffering party. That's mostly their point of view.
     And NW did get profit from this book- not in cash form, they got it an image profit, a PR profit- cause they through book obtained image of victims and strees it, making Turunen and her husband the ultimate "bad guys".
     
     Cancelled concerts are also blamed only on one party, while there is also another side to it, their side and Ewo's side, who by the way is clearly not a top manager. Besides, the reasons for those speculated concert cancellations of Turunen and Cabuli were posed by NW only as monetary, while they excluded other factors, ones important for female singer's comfort at least - but it all was suprisingly served as a sign of divishness, while it wasn't.
     
     "Oh, it was definately about the money, and money produces greed, divas and the worst in people. There was no lying about it in the letter. "
     
     The same goes for NW themselves, they surprisingly excluded themselves out of this circle, while they clearly do not like to give charity for free and also cancel gigs if there are some question with money and are also obviously keen on money and a lot :) So the "greed" and "diva" thing apply a lot to them, while in the letter they tried to put it all on other persons.
     So it was twisting the situation , which caused lying in the letter. :)
     
     "They tolerated the last of the concert run because they had no other choice."
     
     Because they didn't want to loose money - by cancelling this concert and no release of planned DVD, they would have lost lots of cash :)))
     
     "Just what the hell was Tuomas supposed to do?
     Tuomas Holopainen is by no means a saint, but evil, no. Just a person forced to make a no win decision in a difficult situation along with the rest of the band and then get shit on, blamed and deemed evil for firing the ìnnocient queen of `Nightwish. "
     
     He wasn't forced to make it cowardly through publishing open letter on offical site and thus produce large media circus.
     He wasn't forced to make it such way so to try to look innocent victim or saint, while he wasn't,and to ruin other's people reputation, starting calamity against them.
     There is nothing to justify his actions (the form of his action) and his following actions.
     He is not evil in the meaning of devil, lol, too much honour really, but he is obviously gets and deserves all that blaming for his actions, real actions, not actions twisted, given or fabricated in some letter :)

     Orion wrote on 12.11.2009 at 14:38

205. @celisajan
     
     ".....because
     I can´t life without you.... your the most important human in my life ;-) thats why I come back again and again!!! Its hard for me to leave you.... :-)but now...: Kisses and bye"
     
     Ah, nope, I can't be so cruel and replace Maestro himself in your heart :) So you can save all your loyalty and feelings to him :)
     So, if it is real final bye than bye :)

     Orion wrote on 12.11.2009 at 14:44

206. @Earwen
     
     "If it were me, I would have wrote in big fat letters in laser beam on the arenas wall after the 2005 show, "Tarja, you and your greedy husband now ARE FIRED!"
     
     Wow. Really. I haven't yet found somebody who said that their way to fire Tarja was to kind, even most NNW-Fans agree the letter was wrong. You really seem to be either a blind and fanatic fangirl/fanboy or incredibly heartless or incredibly stupid. I can't decide.
     
     Sorry, I don't usually talk this way, not even to people who disagree with me, but this text is simply horrible.
     
     
     AGREED.

     lmcb wrote on 12.11.2009 at 21:03

207. @Orion and @celisajan
     
     ".....because
     I can´t life without you.... your the most important human in my life ;-) thats why I come back again and again!!! Its hard for me to leave you.... :-)but now...: Kisses and bye"
     
     Ah, nope, I can't be so cruel and replace Maestro himself in your heart :) So you can save all your loyalty and feelings to him :)
     So, if it is real final bye than bye :) "
     
     ------
     
     I'M happy to see that in the middle of all this, we can still love one another.
     Peace !!!
     :))
     
     

     lmcb wrote on 12.11.2009 at 21:07

208. "I'M happy to see that in the middle of all this, we can still love one another.
     Peace !!!
     :))"
     
     Like a big lovely familiy....;-))
     

     celisajan wrote on 12.11.2009 at 23:32

209. I got it now. NNW fans are REALLY masochists. Some unknown reason (Mafioso?) forces them to listen to NW's old albums even though they hate (at least) a central part of the music (I wouldn't be surprised if in reality, they didn't like the music that much either because it is too technical and not catchy enough but won't admit it because it's, after all, written by MAESTRO, and MAESTRO is GOD). Some unknown reason forces them to read threads even when they KNOW there are lots of negative comments, forces them not only to READ those negative comments instead of skipping them, but even REPLY to them and COMPLAIN about them. Some unknown entity reason them to pretend something they don't even believe themselves. Some unknown reason forces them to suffer horribly, even though they could easily avoid the cause of the suffering. Some unknown reason also FORCES Maestro to suffer through interviews and especially questions he doesn't want to answer, FORCES him to answer them with stupid jokes that make him look like an ass, instead of simply stating previously that certain subjects are TABOO. Some unknown reason FORCES Maestro to pretend that Princess can sing all his compositions and to pretend that he is HAPPY with her. Oh, and of course he was FORCED to fire Diva in the most cowardly possible way. He was also FORCED to keep denigrating Mafioso and fighting against hime even though Mafioso was acting IN HIS OWN INTEREST. He was also FORCED to choose Princess out of the 2000. That explains everything. Really, poor Maestro.
     
     I doubt Maestro and his fans know REAL suffering.

     Almagest wrote on 12.11.2009 at 23:52

210. "No, that's silly :). The question wasn't that long and Tuomas is a bit too young to have such instant sclerosis. He didn't forget that, he just didn't give straight answer to a not so hard question, that's all, almost ignored it and never really answered. That makes it very funny. That's all."
     
     You can believe what you want. But I still wonder why the journalist didn't ask the question again since it was the main question.
     
     "What a "smart", "mature" and "reasoned" comment from NNF :) Well, what else can you expect from NNF :)"
     
     You are judging all 'NNFs'. That's not adult since not all of us written here.
     
     "And he has the right to "bash" himself openly. He doesn't have the right to do that to others."
     
     If he feels that the others were guilty too (and they were, everybody), he has the right to tell how he feels. Telling feeling is not bashing.
     
     "I didn't hear she studied classical singing, I heard she studied music and also had some singing lessons. Where did you get this?"
     
     From an interview long time ago.
     
     "If you think that firing you through an open letter that includes several reproaches against you and that the whole world is going to read is an action a friend of yours could do and still be your friend, you have a very different view of what friendship is than practically everybody else. And so have the Nightwish guys, if they still consider themselves as Tarja's friends. In my opinion, that's something a friend would NEVER do.
     Maybe they were friends before the letter, I don't think so, but I don't know. But they weren't friends anymore when they published it."
     
     Nobody has concidered Tarja and the boys as friends in the letter and after publishing it. I think the boys meant "an old friend" as "long-time friend" and the friendship just had started to vanish long before they made the decision to fire Tarja.
     
     "Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with your comments, but why do you tell us to stop, but don't do it yourself?"
     
     Because it's pointless since the band is not reading your comments here in MFF. But be my guest, you can continue your... hobby as long as you want. :)
     
     "And there were already problems on her account in the band within 2 years :) So far from perfect all in all:)"
     
     What did you expect? The band and the crew is travelling together for weeks and weeks, they are a "mobile marriage of 15 people" like Tuomas said in Made in Hong Kong documentary. If you see same faces every single day and you don't have much private etc., it's not unexpected that there are some fights between people. Think. Imagine. It's not hard. :)
     
     "You tried to say that you a fan of Old Era, and you are not, you are a fan of NW music and lyrics in toto and a fan of New Era's voice in particular, thus a full fan of NNW. And no, in order to be a fan of Old era really, you need to like whole thing in it, including the voice (which was as already said quite dominant in OE ). But you don't like the voice and singing in Old Era, so you are not really a fan of Old Era:). Just to make things clear."
     
     These are just opinions. There have never been "rules" or whatever in the world that you have to "obey" in order to be concidered as a fan of a band. I consider myself as a fan and I don't need your "permission" to do so. ;)
     
     "Anette was best in their opinion? Perhaps in Ewo's opinion ..."
     
     It was the band who chose her. Ewo is not a dictator, just their manager.
     
     "It's already been pointed out that becoming generic commercial mainstreamish is not what diversity is about. If he likes he can take the band to pop or pop-rock to say best, of course. He already is doing that actually:)"
     
     Brother Firetribe is pop-rock.
     
     "but now I am not so sure. On the other hand there are interesting pictures to be expected... sure. :-))"
     
     One nudity picture taken 7 years ago and still you are expecting to see more?
     
     "But since he already invited journalists to his other home and showed it off in every way,so it is even on youtube now, making now fuss in interview and finding it unexpectedly strange that other journalists now take interest in his new home is kinda overboard thing. :)"
     
     He has the right to choose who he wants to invite to his OWN home (he surely had his parents's permission to Maan mainiot). And I'm repeating myself: Breaking domestic peace is illegal.
     
     "And let me ask you a question.Since you respect sooo much Tarja and you are so just and fair,why don't you GO to her threads and defend her?
     I'm not saying to defend her here,but why don't you go THERE to defend her?"
     
     You guys are already doing it with a great success. You don't need her. :)
     
     "As long as we talk about facts,we expect people to answer about these facts,with other facts,not pseudo-psychoanalysis."
     
     What are your facts? I have noticed just one: the famous letter and it's publishing. :)
     
     "We don't need to know the full story in order to see that NW decided to humiliate Tarja and make every NW fan believe that she's an evil bitch."
     
     Why would they do that since the only person they really hated was Marcelo? o_O
     
     "It's interesting how you say you are fair and just but in the same time you find excuses for what Tuomas did to Tarja...And just so it happens,these excuses make Tuomas look like he's the poor victim,the martyr."
     
     You guys are not fair either because you have not said a thing what Tarja and Marcelo may had done wrong. All you have done is blaming the boys and telling your own opinions and theories. Sorry, but I don't believe that Tarja was a pure innocent angel. But, surprisingly, we fans and haters don't know what happened. Despite of that it's not fair to blame only the boys. :P
     
     "Do you live in another universe or something?Because in this universe,this "no win decision" gave them extreme fame that still goes on,made them look like innocent victims,and made Tarja look like "evil" and got shit on."
     
     Apparently the letter did not make them look like victims since there are a lot of people like you who defend Tarja. :) And Tarja was treated in Finnish media as a victim. This I have been told, I did not follow the news back then when I was not a fan yet.
     
     "Everyone knows that the reason Tuomas insists on writing songs only by himself is loyalties."
     
     Err, no. In DPP there are two songs that were not written by Tuomas except the lyrics. And Tuomas said there will be more if other band members want to write songs.
     
     Emppu composed the chorus of Come Cover Me and had something to do with Sacrament of Wilderness too. Same with Crownless, Slaying the Dreamer, Beauty of the Beast, Bare Grace Misery and the Siren. Marco did something to Beauty of the Beast, 7 Days to the Wolves Higher Than Hope and Romanticide.
     
     "The problem with NW was that she was paid less,and that when you're in a band,you can't demand things you need,and if you demand them,it makes you look like a diva.The dressing room,for example."
     
     I believe all band members were paid equally. Of course Tuomas earns more money since most of the songs are made by him, but not all. And when they were paid for doing gig, everyone got the same money.
     
     "You got ALL this information from the book or the letter, which were both influenced only by NW and not by Tarja or Marcelo, and yet you take everything as facts without knowing the other side and judge Tarja and Marcelo because of it. That's just stupid."
     
     Do you know for sure why there are not Tarja's comments about the letter in the book? Or Marcelo's? If you do, please tell us.
     
     "And you know their reasons because they told you? Or because you believe everything that comes from Tuomas and Co.?"
     
     Do you doubt *everything* the band tells?
     
     "Why didn't he make a long interview with Tarja AFTER Hartwall, as it was planned, but instead called her in the middle of the night and insisted she should do the interview now - BEFORE the split?!"
     
     Maybe she did not *want* to say anything?
     
     "The NW book is very biased, mostly aimed to show one side of the story -NW's part that is - at large and portrait them as suffering party. That's mostly their point of view."
     
     The writer blames the boys, too.
     
     ----------
     
     The world is not black and white. Blaming and judging people for their actions is all good and makes us all look saints. Why? Because we all know better what should have done, we all know what the band and Tarja were thinking about things, we all know how they felt, we all know what's their way to do things, we all know what is right.
     
     I'm talking about NW haters and lovers.

     JesseFinn wrote on 12.11.2009 at 23:57

211. I wrote: "I wouldn't be surprised if in reality, they didn't like"
     
     the rest of
     
     "the music that much either because it is too technical and not catchy enough"
     
     and there is not enough orchestra and too much boring metal stuff.
     
     That said, I already look forward to Bright Cushion Fight by Brightwish, leaving all the pointless metal behind and concentrating on pop songs with Britney Spears. Actually yes, I would like that, because Britney is a LOT more genuine than Princess.

     Almagest wrote on 13.11.2009 at 00:08

212. @JesseFinn
     
     "You guys are already doing it with a great success. You don't need her. "
     
     The question wasn't for you.It was for a person that insists on her justice and fair thoughts but doesn't do the same with tarja.
     
     "You guys are not fair either because you have not said a thing what Tarja and Marcelo may had done wrong."
     
     EXACTLY. "MAY" have done wrong.We blame Tuomas and NW for what they DID wrong.
     
     "Apparently the letter did not make them look like victims since there are a lot of people like you who defend Tarja. :)"
     
     Sorry for not believing the letter and the book.
     
     "And Tarja was treated in Finnish media as a victim."
     
     Speak only for your country.In the rest of the world,Tarja is shown like a greedy diva,and even Finnish magazines have said really bad things about Marcelo.
     
     "Err, no. In DPP there are two songs that were not written by Tuomas except the lyrics. And Tuomas said there will be more if other band members want to write songs."
     
     Yeah right.That's why EVERYONE was credited in AFF,but after that they suddenly decided they didn't want to write songs?
     I;m sorry,but the only thing you do is keep parroting what Tuomas says.I may have to inform you that HE IS NOT KNOWN for telling the truth.
     
     "And when they were paid for doing gig, everyone got the same money. "
     
     I'm not talking about money.I'm talking about things like dressing rooms,that made Tarja look like a huge diva by demanding them.
     
     And finally,in case you didn't notice,i have already said that some things mentioned in the letter are true,but shown in a very wicked and twisted way.
     I believe that it doesn't have to be "good" side or "evil" side.I don't think that they kicked her because she was diva or wanting more money or anything.
     
     What i believe is this:
     
     Tarja announced that she would leave anyway.
     She also got all the attention from the media,especially from Marco,who NW guys want him to be a lead singer of the band,along with the female voice.
     
     So,instead of sitting and watching Tarja leave,and make them seem left behind,they made up a well-done story full of twisted facts and views,which:
     1)released them from Tarja.
     2)made THEM look like victims(and i don't care what Finnish magazines say,because now every NW fan informs people that listen to NW for the first time that "the operatic girl was gone because she was a diva)
     3)Gave them extreme amount of PR and interviews.It's free advertising.
     

     Legeon wrote on 13.11.2009 at 13:58

213. "The world is not black and white."
     
     Thats what i wan´t to say all the time, I am writing here.. ;-)
     There is more... much more we can´t see!!!( or the media will tell us...;-) )
     
     I wish you good luck,JesseFinn..perhaps you can explain what it meens :-)
     
     Tarja is good in her solocareer, und in my opinion, she is strong enough to go her way...and NW is it , too!!
     They don´t need this little fightcoments here, they make it on their own way!!!
     
     
     
     

     celisajan wrote on 13.11.2009 at 14:38

214. @ Almagest
     
     "I got it now. NNW fans are REALLY masochists. Some unknown reason (Mafioso?) forces them to listen to NW's old albums even though they hate (at least) a central part of the music (I wouldn't be surprised if in reality, they didn't like the music that much either because it is too technical and not catchy enough but won't admit it because it's, after all, written by MAESTRO, and MAESTRO is GOD). Some unknown reason forces them to read threads even when they KNOW there are lots of negative comments, forces them not only to READ those negative comments instead of skipping them, but even REPLY to them and COMPLAIN about them. Some unknown entity reason them to pretend something they don't even believe themselves. Some unknown reason forces them to suffer horribly, even though they could easily avoid the cause of the suffering. Some unknown reason also FORCES Maestro to suffer through interviews and especially questions he doesn't want to answer, FORCES him to answer them with stupid jokes that make him look like an ass, instead of simply stating previously that certain subjects are TABOO. Some unknown reason FORCES Maestro to pretend that Princess can sing all his compositions and to pretend that he is HAPPY with her. Oh, and of course he was FORCED to fire Diva in the most cowardly possible way. He was also FORCED to keep denigrating Mafioso and fighting against hime even though Mafioso was acting IN HIS OWN INTEREST. He was also FORCED to choose Princess out of the 2000. That explains everything. Really, poor Maestro.
     
     I doubt Maestro and his fans know REAL suffering."
     
     Thanks for the good laughs. You are such a big joke. ;D
     
     "I wrote: "I wouldn't be surprised if in reality, they didn't like"
     
     the rest of
     
     "the music that much either because it is too technical and not catchy enough"
     
     and there is not enough orchestra and too much boring metal stuff.
     
     That said, I already look forward to Bright Cushion Fight by Brightwish, leaving all the pointless metal behind and concentrating on pop songs with Britney Spears. Actually yes, I would like that, because Britney is a LOT more genuine than Princess."
     
     I bet you would sing and dance if Nightwish members were killed in a plane crash during the next tour. That's the picture I got.

     Alma wrote on 13.11.2009 at 14:51

215. "You can believe what you want. But I still wonder why the journalist didn't ask the question again since it was the main question. "
     
     It is not about believing, it is about simple common logic. The journalist wouldn't want to waste time of the rest of interview on the same question. He had other questions to ask, also important. Besides, since he gave him quite evasive answer, hardly journalist would be sure that if he asked him several times more and wasted the rest of his time, he would really tell him something else. Unless journalist was going to beat this information out of Tuomas with force ;) But that's also would be a waste of time.
     
     "What did you expect? If you see same faces every single day and you don't have much private etc., it's not unexpected that there are some fights between people. Think. Imagine. It's not hard. :)"
     
     Too many problems for a short period, that's all, for a band who tried to show in every way how happy they were now :)
     What a surprise, only the fights between them and their first singer, who they also saw every day during tours, also there wasn't much privacy, also tours were tiresome, were posed mostly on account that it was first singer's fault that there were these fights and it is because of her bad character , while the same stuff with second singer, who spent with them even less time, as she is only two years in the band are totally justified and completely natural :) What a hypocricy.
     
     
     "The writer blames the boys, too."
     
     No, not nearly as much as the other party was blamed.

     Orion wrote on 13.11.2009 at 15:16

216. @JesseFinn
     
     "Brother Firetribe is pop-rock. "
     
     So what? They always been like this and they don't deny that they do that pop-rockish kind of music and described it as easy going rock.
     
     "You guys are already doing it with a great success. You don't need her. :) '
     
     No, what a ridiculous point. If the person pretends to respect such singer a lot but never shows up to defend her in other threads, where this singer gets bashing,that is clear that such person only fakes that respect.
     And the reasons that there are other people who defends her already and that's why there is no need to participate, are totally failed, since people who honsetly have respect for singer will go and defend such singer, no matter if there are already others doing that or not.
     
     
     "You guys are not fair either because you have not said a thing what Tarja and Marcelo may had done wrong. Sorry, but I don't believe that Tarja was a pure innocent angel. "
     
     Actually it was said several times already that in order to get such form of firing through such letter, which started public calamity against them, they both needed to commit murder or something worse. Things they might have done wrong do not lie obviousy in that "murder or worse" category. But since they were treated and shown like that- like such horribel people who can be only fired without telling it all to their faces,while NW tried to stay suffered and harmed in all that, the question about their innocence pops up first. Were they themselves so very innocent to do so (that open letter)? No, they were not, but they did it, made it public, blamed others in that letter. Not evil Tarja and Marcelo did it, but they did. It was clrealy too unproportional to all Diva and Mafioso, as they labeled them, might have done :)
     
     What are your facts? I have noticed just one: the famous letter and it's publishing. :)
     
     You have bad noticing. There were also such songs as BBB, MPG on album, with BBB performed almost a year, then interviews where they mentioned that firing in different ways, instead of giving short answers or not bringing up past at all, and recent stupid joke about it-also in media.
     
     "The world is not black and white."
     
     It was NW which devided world into those categories in that letter: "black-greedy diva and her husband, white - the rest of NW gang, victims, harmed, were forced to do that all, were totally justified to do that".
     And they also blamed others people - in public, making themselves look so right and saint-like.

     Iris wrote on 13.11.2009 at 16:03

217. Orion was right, that celisajan said good byes several times already but doesn't have any nerve or guts to leave. So pathetic.

     Z. wrote on 13.11.2009 at 16:08

218. "If he feels that the others were guilty too (and they were, everybody), he has the right to tell how he feels. Telling feeling is not bashing"
     
     He wasn't just telling feelings in that letter, he made clear accusations(about greediness, coldness and etc.), calling names like "diva" - that is called bashing, and it was public bashing, media bashing. It was aimed to that effect, otherwise he could speak about all that face to face, not through open later.
     
     "Apparently the letter did not make them look like victims since there are a lot of people like you who defend Tarja. :)"
     
     It made them look like victims to lots of people. Those kinds of people who bash now a lot "other party" becuase it is written in that letter. Just some people don't fall easily for a black anti-PR, even if it is well served through open letter or entire book :)
     
     "He has the right to choose who he wants to invite to his OWN home (he surely had his parents's permission to Maan mainiot). And I'm repeating myself: Breaking domestic peace is illegal."
     
     He has right but he gave them (journalists) clear sign by inviting journalist to his old home for a grand tour around it, (no matter that he got his parents permission for it, it wasn't his parents who invited the journalists or suggested that idea of tour, I'm sure, they just agreed with their son's idea) that he is in habbit of showing off his home or he likes to do that (as people who do not want to show off their homes won't expose them for a tour for journalists).
     
     But he now complains about it as if it came out of the blue. Funny. And if it so illegal, then he surely, like it was said here before, could sue them, thus attrackting more attention to his persona-but maybe it is exactly what he wants. :)
     

     Polly wrote on 13.11.2009 at 16:36

219. @imcb: thanks =)
     
     @JesseFinn, who wrote:
     "If he feels that the others were guilty too (and they were, everybody), he has the right to tell how he feels. Telling feeling is not bashing."
     
     He talked publicly bad about other persons, blaming them for almost everything that went wrong in the band and calling them greedy etc. I call that bashing! If he needs to express his feelings, he should talk to friends in private.
     
     "From an interview long time ago. "
     
     Again: No source. Or can you show me that interview? You can't just write sentences like "she studied classical singing for three years" without anything that proves it . Especially when there are other websites that say something completely different.
     
     "Nobody has considered Tarja and the boys as friends in the letter and after publishing it."
     
     You wrote: "The band called Tarja in the letter "an old friend" and I don't think they mean ex-friend." Could you explain me why somebody isn't an "ex-friend" when the friendship ended, just because it lasted or started a long time before that?
     
     "Because it's pointless since the band is not reading your comments here in MFF. But be my guest, you can continue your... hobby as long as you want. :) "
     
     And I will =)
     
     "What are your facts? I have noticed just one: the famous letter and it's publishing. :) "
     
     And that would be enough, but I can start and name you some more:
     
     - Tuomas likes to say that he has many self-doubts and isn't very self-confident, but still, he says sentences like "I guess someone has sabotaged the album's promotion here in Brazil, because the sales haven't been that good." and says that the others wouldn't have become famous without him . Still, he accuses Tarja to be arrogant, and I never saw her saying sentences like that in an interview.
     
     - Tuomas published sentences Tarja said in that letter to prove that she's arrogant and greedy, like "?Remember, Tuomas, that I could leave this band at any time, giving you only one day's warning in advance?" even though he MUST KNOW that she didn't really mean it, because she did tell the band she'd leave YEARS before she actually would have done it
     
     - BBB and MPG - we already talked about that
     
     - Tuomas said that Anette has the same vocal range as Tarja and wouldn't need any time, and by now everyone should know that's a lie
     
     To that: when Tarja defended herself against the reproaches she mentioned for example communication problems, too many concerts, the bad management (that was why she had her own manager) etc.
     By now, Anette has
     
     - a manager, too ( even though Tuomas said the new singer shouldn't have one)
     
     - complained about communication problems
     
     - her own website, merchandise and solo album (while Tuomas said Tarja didn't concentrate on NW)
     
     - complained about bad vibes in the band
     
     - run off the stage in Belo Horizonte, crying, and the band/management gave more than three different explanations
     
     Does anybody want to continue the list?
     
     "You guys are not fair either because you have not said a thing what Tarja and Marcelo may had done wrong. All you have done is blaming the boys and telling your own opinions and theories. Sorry, but I don't believe that Tarja was a pure innocent angel. But, surprisingly, we fans and haters don't know what happened. Despite of that it's not fair to blame only the boys. :P "
     
     Because we don't know bad FACTS about her. Why should we blame her for something when we don't know if it happened? But we know a lot about what Tuomas and Co did wrong
     
     "Apparently the letter did not make them look like victims since there are a lot of people like you who defend Tarja. :) And Tarja was treated in Finnish media as a victim. This I have been told, I did not follow the news back then when I was not a fan yet. "
     
     This is four years later, when many thing that happened by now opened people's eyes. To that, people on this website are more critical than somewhere else, this is an exception. Right after the letter, most people blamed Tarja and Marcelo, and that this is slowly changing now is for sure not what the band expected or wanted.
     And there are still many who think it was Tarja's fault and tell others it was.
     
     "I believe all band members were paid equally. Of course Tuomas earns more money since most of the songs are made by him, but not all. And when they were paid for doing gig, everyone got the same money."
     
     Yes, they were paid equally. And Tarja never asked for more money than the others, she asked for better conditions.
     
     "Do you know for sure why there are not Tarja's comments about the letter in the book? Or Marcelo's? If you do, please tell us. "
     
     I told you, it's because the only interview with Tarja was done before the split.
     
     "Do you doubt *everything* the band tells? "
     
     Again, you're taking my comment out of it's context: I was writing to a person who talked about everything the band says as FACTS.
     
     I doubt NW's words whenever I have a REASON to doubt it. And when there are others who were there and say something different, that's a reason, and then I doubt it and try to find out what seems more probable.
     
     "Maybe she did not *want* to say anything? "
     
     Why do you think so? She wrote that the interview should be done later but then the interviewer called her demanding to do the interview right then.
     Dou you have ANY information that says something different or do you just speculate without any reason because that makes Tarja look less innocent?
     
     "The writer blames the boys, too. "
     
     But mostly Tarja and Marcelo. Again: if the author was NOT biased, then WHY did he reschedule the interview with Tarja? Or do you have any information that says he didn't?
     
     Alma wrote: "I bet you would sing and dance if Nightwish members were killed in a plane crash during the next tour. That's the picture I got."
     
     No, not really. See, that would really make them victims, and everybody would pity them and call that a tragedy, how could we criticize them as hard as we do now, then? :D
     
     Just kidding: I don't wish them to die or anything :D I just wish them to be honest, stop spreading lies and apologize for their mistakes. That's all.

     Earwen wrote on 13.11.2009 at 16:45

220. @JessFinn
     
     No, there are certain and very plain criterias to be considered and to be a fan of band/singer/actor/whoever, and if you fall out of some really major of them, that would be just obvious lying/faking of being a fan as it goes against simple logic and common sense.
     
     Cause if you don't like and can?t bear to listen to the singing of the singer, you can?t be fan of such singer or say that you like that singer as a singer, and if you can?t bear the singing of the singer who sang a lot in certain musical period (which was Old Era), and only tolerated it, you can?t be a fan of that period (since that period included that singer as one of the key parts and was quite forming). Another alternative option in it is being masochistic (disliking singer, but trying to be/ be seen as fan of that musical period she sang in) ? but since it is clearly insane feature that won?t count as a good reason.
     
     I didn?t say you were not a fan of the band (meaning, you are fan of NW?s music and lyrics all in all and in particular NNW?s and New Era?s fan, but you are definitely, not a fan of Old Era, thus not a fan of both eras). And it doesn?t matter that you try to be considered like that - faking is not a reasonable at all, specially when it is obvious, cause facts speaks for themselves. And it doesn?t validate your points you make here, only undermine them. And other people here, who are ONW fans, do not pretend to be NNW fans or both era?s fans equally. They are honest in that at least. As I said just to clear up the things.
     It is quite remarkable that some NNF here tend to pretend to be both era?s fans while they give themselvesf away that they are not.

     Black Beauty wrote on 13.11.2009 at 17:05

221. I said: "and there is not enough orchestra"
     
     And of course, not enough Marco by FAR.
     
     Alma: Of course I wouldn't. That would make them into martyrs, and perhaps even make their fans blame Diva and Mafioso. No, I will sing and dance if the next NW album becomes a commercial and critical disaster. :-p
     
     But thank for acknowledging my sense of humour. :-p
     
     Orion: Funny enough, Tuomas was able to answer in an evasive way the question about the next album being poppier, but not the one about the letter.
     
     Obviously, nothing forces him to answer ALL the questions that interviewers ask him. So there must REALLY be something that forces him to act like a jackass.
     
     Iris: True, it's Tuomas who sees the world in a black-and-white way, as in his beloved Disney films.
     
     We defenders of Tarja and her husband may not have all the facts, but we have SOME facts as well as logical thinking, from which we derive the conclusion that whatever they may have done, nothing can justify what NW have done to them, and their actions ever since have not produced a shred of evidence or even hint that they were really guilty of the accusations in the letter or book, in fact there were many events that make the accusations look downright absurd.
     
     In fact I wonder why, if Marcelo has done so many evil things, why NW have left it to innuendo and finger-pointing. If NW were serious and honest in their accusations and if they had real evidence that he has damaged their cause, they could have sued them. But they haven't, and that implies the conclusion that they have no evidence and that their accusations weren't serious or honest. They probably were only propaganda. Marcelo's misdeeds are only figments of the imagination (and no supporting evidence at all has surfaced in the past four years), while the slander or more precisely libel is real.
     
     Therefore the lawsuit.

     Almagest wrote on 13.11.2009 at 17:11

222. Geez. You people don't have life. Especially the "haters's" group.
     
     Ah well, you can continue your "holy quest" as long as you want but remember: judging someone by what he has said is not always logical. Just think why.
     
     This was my first and last visiting in Metal From Finland. This such a pathetic playground..

     Sade wrote on 13.11.2009 at 18:21

223. @ sade
     
     "judging someone by what he has said is not always logical. Just think why"
     
     uhm..sorry to burst your self-righteous bubble,mr.marquise, but you've just called people "pathetic" and "with no life" (therefore, JUDGING them) on the basis of what they SAID here.
     
     really, I understand your annoyance, but if you want to come here on your high horse and look down on others' logical abilities you really should try to improve YOURS first. Because you know, right now they look pretty crappy.
     
     Take some debate classes, honey, then come back.
     

     me wrote on 13.11.2009 at 19:56

224. @Sade
     
     "Geez. You people don't have life. Especially the "haters's" group. "
     
     Said the person who spent his time to read all the comments here and then lectured others about "having no life".
     
     " judging someone by what he has said is not always logical."
     
     Sure it is more logical not to judge person but what he says or how he acts, but only by some fantasies about this person, it is much more logical:)
     
     " This such a pathetic playground.."
     
     What a smart way to accuse entire MFF site. Well ,nobody forced you to read all this and comment.

     Orion wrote on 13.11.2009 at 20:40

225. Isn't it lovely how NNW fans are annoyed by the things said here,but SURPRISINGLY they find "haters" to be the most stupid and lifeless of all?
     
     
     Cute.
     
     But what pleases me,is that they don't do any better by coming here and saying those things.
     Because,to the comments posted here,they answer with personal attacks and suggestions of "getting a life",but they NEVER answer with arguments about what we say.
     
     Which makes things look like there is nothing to say to defend NW,and that what is said here is true.
     
     
     So,NNW fans,keep answering this way-you only make our work easier!

     Legeon wrote on 13.11.2009 at 22:23

226. I find it very funny that people claim Nightwish for lying about everything but they don't have much material that supports what they say. They say the book is full of lies but they don't offer the truth because they don't know it. That's why it's useless to claim someone a liar.
     
     Someone said that they don't say anything about what Tarja may had done wrong because they don't have facts about that. Well, they don't have facts about Nw and many other people lying in the book, either. It would be so much better to talk about misunderstandings instead of lies.
     
     I wonder how Tarja managed to give so wrong picture about her actions. :/

     Jäävuori wrote on 14.11.2009 at 00:08

227. @Jäävuori
     
     No, they have material that supports what they say. And it was already said and given here, starting with the current actions of the current NW singer.
     
     And about Tarja, they don't have facts, yes, because all those "facts" are given in letter or in book by someone else, that is the difference from real actions which took place and were made directly by some certain persons - and were not given through some letter or book.
     And again, you try to balme Tarja , that it was she who gave some wrong picture of her wrong actions and it turns out to be her fault, huh. Lol No real point at all.

     Orion wrote on 14.11.2009 at 00:45

228. Some parts of interview really suck.

     Miranda wrote on 14.11.2009 at 00:59

229. @Z
     
     "Orion was right, that celisajan said good byes several times already but doesn't have any nerve or guts to leave. So pathetic."
     
     
     Pathetic....is the right word... but not for me..the word for me is just curious..:-)
     
     Pathetic is for the whole and endless Blabla..because, all our words here, aren´t interest for Maestro(TuomASS), Greedy Marcelo, Fat (PMS)Nettie or the greedy Diva named Tarja!!!..
     
     ( I call them Tuomas, Marcelo, Anette and Tarja, because in my opinion no one of them is a really bad human,they are ONLY humans, and no one of us got the right to offend them with such offend names)
     
     And I mean it for BOTH sides!!!!
     

     celisajan wrote on 14.11.2009 at 01:09

230. @Jäävuori
     
     One very simple proof is that Anette is now doing the same things Tarja was accused for,and ever worse things,in only the 1/5 of time,but they have no problem with that.
     
     One other proof is that Anette herself has said that there are serious communication problems in the band,and that it's hard to tour in a bus full of men.
     In case you forgot it,NW accused Tarja of being a diva because she wanted to travel by plane.But it seems that Anette can't stand life on the road with a bus too.
     
     One other proof is that NW accused Tarja for the canceled shows in the USA because she didn't want to play in small venues with small fees,but Tarja has been touring the last 2 years in even smaller venues with smaller fees.
     
     One other proof is that NW accused Tarja for not caring for her fans and ignoring them,but the truth is that there is no proof for that(like a video),but there are many proofs that Anette ignores her fans.Even some of her fans admit that.
     
     One other proof is that NW accused Tarja for caring only about money and not fans,but the truth is that in her last shows,Tarja has been performing in the middle of the audience.Yeah,i suppose you have to be extra-greedy in order to overpass your fears from previous stage attacks,play in the middle of a some times fanatic audience,and ask them to sit down around you and enjoy a ballad.
     
     
     Ummm..enough proof?I can give you more-this was just for starters.

     Legeon wrote on 14.11.2009 at 01:44

231. "I wonder how Tarja managed to give so wrong picture about her actions. :/"
     
     No my friend,it wasn't Tarja that gave such a wrong picture about her actions.
     It was NW that managed to give such a wrong picture about Tarja's actions.
     
     Tarja hasn't done anything wrong in public.What she's supposed to have done is only written in a letter and a book.

     Legeon wrote on 14.11.2009 at 01:58

232. "Pathetic....is the right word... but not for me..the word for me is just curious..:-) "
     
     No, the person who reads all days long comments, which this person thinks to be just blahblah and comes here and complains about so often as you do and then pretends to leave several time, obviously lying, is pathetic, not curios.
     
     "because, all our words here, aren´t interest for Maestro(TuomASS), Greedy Marcelo, Fat (PMS)Nettie or the greedy Diva named Tarja!!!.. "
     
     Since they don't read this and comments are not interest for them, why are you so botherd for them? No reason.
     
     "they are ONLY humans, and no one of us got the right to offend them with such offend names"
     
     Tuomas and NW offended Tarja when they gave her name "diva" with definition greedy, they offended Marcelo, also posing him as mafioso and serpent in interviews and master passion greed (in song). They had no such right to offend them, but they did. Maybe you would be so kind to tell it all to them first. Not to us.

     Z. wrote on 14.11.2009 at 14:33

233. @Orion
     
     "No, they have material that supports what they say. And it was already said and given here, starting with the current actions of the current NW singer."
     
     My main point was that people are calling the book a bunch of lies. Do they have material about that? :)
     
     "And about Tarja, they don't have facts, yes, because all those "facts" are given in letter or in book by someone else, that is the difference from real actions which took place and were made directly by some certain persons - and were not given through some letter or book."
     
     The book tells about things that were told by people outside of the band. Why are those people called liars?
     
     "And again, you try to balme Tarja , that it was she who gave some wrong picture of her wrong actions and it turns out to be her fault, huh. Lol No real point at all."
     
     Well, Tarja told in her press conference that "the boys have understood us so wrong". Doesn't that mean that the boys got the wrong picture about her actions? :)

     Jäävuori wrote on 14.11.2009 at 14:42

234. @ Jäävuori: Did you read my last comment? Somebody asked exactly the same question - what are your facts? - and I started a list of those. If you don't think those are facts, or if you don't think they're bad: no problem, tell me why, and we can discuss it. But if you comment about our comments here, please READ them, first. Honestly...
     
     Now I'll quote myself (sorry!), so you don't even have to look for it:
     
     - they published the letter and the book
     
     - Tuomas likes to say that he has many self-doubts and isn't very self-confident, but still, he says sentences like "I guess someone has sabotaged the album's promotion here in Brazil, because the sales haven't been that good." and says that the others wouldn't have become famous without him . Still, he accuses Tarja to be arrogant, and I never saw her saying sentences like that in an interview.
     
     - Tuomas published sentences Tarja said in that letter to prove that she's arrogant and greedy, like "Remember, Tuomas, that I could leave this band at any time, giving you only one day's warning in advance!" even though he MUST KNOW that she didn't really mean it, because she did tell the band she'd leave YEARS before she actually would have done it
     
     - BBB and MPG on DPP, + touring with BBB for about a year
     
     - Tuomas said that Anette has the same vocal range as Tarja and wouldn't need any time, and by now everyone should know that's a lie.
     
     To that: when Tarja defended herself against the reproaches she mentioned for example communication problems, too many concerts, the bad management (that was why she had her own manager) etc.
     By now, Anette has
     
     - a manager, too ( even though Tuomas said the new singer shouldn't have one)
     
     - complained about communication problems
     
     - her own website, merchandise and solo album (while Tuomas said Tarja didn't concentrate on NW)
     
     - complained about bad vibes in the band
     
     - run off the stage in Belo Horizonte, crying, and the band/management gave more than three different explanations why she did so.
     
     If you want to see where I got those quotes etc., I can try to find them for you. I'm sure I'll find most of them.
     
     And I see Legeon named some facts, too. =)
     
     So, where are yours that prove NW are the innocent ones and Tarja is to blame? I'm very curious.

     Earwen wrote on 14.11.2009 at 14:48

235. @Legeon
     
     "One other proof is that Anette herself has said that there are serious communication problems in the band,and that it's hard to tour in a bus full of men.
     In case you forgot it,NW accused Tarja of being a diva because she wanted to travel by plane.But it seems that Anette can't stand life on the road with a bus too."
     
     As a woman I understand both Tarja and Anette for feeling hard to travel by bus that is full of men. I recall the letter says that it never gave trouble to the boys that Tarja wanted to travel by other plane with her husband. :)
     
     "One other proof is that NW accused Tarja for the canceled shows in the USA because she didn't want to play in small venues with small fees,but Tarja has been touring the last 2 years in even smaller venues with smaller fees."
     
     Does she have a choise to play in bigger places? She is not yet that big star. I hope she gets more fans after the next album and she can start to play in bigger places with bigger audiences. She deserves it. :)
     
     "One other proof is that NW accused Tarja for caring only about money and not fans,but the truth is that in her last shows,Tarja has been performing in the middle of the audience.Yeah,i suppose you have to be extra-greedy in order to overpass your fears from previous stage attacks,play in the middle of a some times fanatic audience,and ask them to sit down around you and enjoy a ballad."
     
     I don't concider it caring fans if you want to cancel a sold-out concert just because you want to train for Christmas concerts, meet friends and go to the movies. This is not mean to be offending. :)

     Jäävuori wrote on 14.11.2009 at 14:57

236. @Legeon
     
     "Tarja hasn't done anything wrong in public.What she's supposed to have done is only written in a letter and a book."
     
     Not in public but what about behind the curtains? She has never corrected so called lies.

     Jäävuori wrote on 14.11.2009 at 15:00

237. @Jäävuori
     
     Yes, they have material for that - read better replies to you, they see current attitude from current singer, but this time about the same attitude such fuss is not created as it was with the first singer, considering that current singer spent less time in the band. Plus, they see the first singer's attitude and behaviour.
     
     "The book tells about things that were told by people outside of the band. Why are those people called liars?"
     
     Cause those people are close to band and would support their position.
     And btw some people who were close to band didn't say bad words or stay with NW, like it was with that staff guy, whom you can see on FWTE doc and who is now in Tarja's band :)
     
     "Doesn't that mean that the boys got the wrong picture about her actions? :)"
     
     They got the wrong picture cause they wanted to see it like this and interpret like this, in fact I think they saw another picture, not the one they presented to everyone in the end, it was more comfy for them to see it like this and which is more important to present it to the public like this and that is called twisting.

     Orion wrote on 14.11.2009 at 19:03

238. "Not in public but what about behind the curtains? She has never corrected so called lies."
     
     Actually she did during conference, telling that the picture given in the letter is wrong and why and then her husband, as her manager, replied to the fans answers.
     Besides, Tuomas never himself corrected and never actually told about his role behind the curtains and what were all his action and his words in all that, he just take some out of the context and gave them out to prove he is innocence.

     Orion wrote on 14.11.2009 at 19:07

239. @Z. Sorry, but whats your reason to talk in this thread with or about so pathetic humans like me????? When your niveau is so much higher than mine????
     hhhmmmm!
     
     
     And If you copy my words , so copy the whole thing and not the part thats perfect for your coments!!!
     At least I wrote:
     "( I call them Tuomas, Marcelo, Anette and Tarja, because in my opinion no one of them is a really bad human,they are ONLY humans, and no one of us got the right to offend them with such offend names)
     
     And I mean it for BOTH sides!!!! "
     
     Read it and than tell me who pathetic are YOU!!!
     
     I talk for BOTH sides, and not only for NNW..and I never, ever said , that I got a problem with Tarja or Marcelo!!
     I have a problem with people who only want to see ONE side of the story!!
     I never said Tuomas is a holy
     or Anette a wonderwoman!!!
     and I never told Tarja a greedy monster( My words are: PERHAPS Tarja makes such mistakes , TOO. I can´t believe that she is sooo innocent in this story, but I didn´t know it, because I can´t look behind the walls..)
     Thats only an(my) opinion and no fact,
     
     I think here in this Thread are some SUPERMANS andWOMEN who can see the whole Story because they can see through walls !!!
     
     And yes I don´t want to come here the next time, but I didn´t said I never come back here...
     The reason why Iam already read and write here is, that Iam curious whats coming up next, its like a daily soap..nobody likes it ,but all here knows the news of it :-)
     
     I think the most of people here have the same reason;-)
     
     

     celisajan wrote on 14.11.2009 at 19:11

240. "Does she have a choise to play in bigger places? She is not yet that big star."
     
     She actually already played gig in 5000 venue and sold it out, in 3000-4500 venue and sold it out, or in some more little 1000-2000 clubs and sold them out. And she is not yet big star :) So she has some choices apparently :)
     
     "I don't concider it caring fans if you want to cancel a sold-out concert just because you want to train for Christmas concerts, meet friends and go to the movies."
     
     Oh, info again from that famous letter- you onyl probably missed the point that she already told that she was informed about that sold-out concert too late, when she already had planned Christmas concerts and band knew that she had those planned Christmas concerts. But again NW didn't mention it in their lovely letter.

     Iris wrote on 14.11.2009 at 19:20

241. @Jäävuori
     
     
     "Not in public but what about behind the curtains? She has never corrected so called lies."
     
     Her husband actually did it, but you obviously didn't bother reading his side of the story. Prejudice anyone?
     
     "I recall the letter says that it never gave trouble to the boys that Tarja wanted to travel by other plane with her husband."
     
     Other plane? Sorry, maybe I didn't understand well. If you are implying that Tarja and her husband wanted to fly with a DIFFERENT plane then you're misinformed. This is something that people who read only NW's side of the story tend to believe. In his answer, Tarja's husband said that when they had to travel long distances he and Tarja preferred to fly while usually the guys wanted to party in the tourbus. They NEVER took DIFFERENT planes.
     
     The letter uses many rhetorical devices mainly to manipulate the reader's opinion. One of these is plain enumeration: whoever wrote the letter said that he was not bothered by the bad things that SUPPOSEDLY Tarja did, and YET he enumerated them thoroughly.The aim is opposite to what it seems to be on a superficial level: it makes the reader actually pay attention to what she SUPPOSEDLY did by negatively EMPHASIZING it.
     One other device is ambiguity: by saying she was flying alone with her husband many people have believed she didn't want to fly with the guys, while in reality they simply preferred to use the tourbus for long-distance travelling.
     
     "I don't concider it caring fans if you want to cancel a sold-out concert just because you want to train for Christmas concerts, meet friends and go to the movies. "
     
     Again, you have not read the other side of the story. Mr. Cabuli (aka the Devil, lol) actually gave a an account of the email exchange between him and Ewo concerning this matter.
     Apparently Mr. Pohjola informed him of the concert only DAYS before it was scheduled. Tarja had already other plans, and Marcelo was upset about it, but of course they agreed to do the concert.
     
     Now, saying that she didn't want to do it because she's EVIIIIIILZ and she woke up one morning saying "Today I am going to cancel a sold-out concert 'cause I'm a bitch yeahh!!" is VERY different from saying they didn't inform her until it was too late and she had other plans. Again, the power of rhetoric and manipulation.
     
     Things are never black and white, and I agree that probably Tarja and her husband made mistakes too, and that fire her was the best solution.
     
     But as an intelligent individual I simply cannot accept the ridiculous, childish WE=GOOD, SHE(AND HUSBAND)=EVIL that NW PR and management tried to sell their fans.
     It's plainly unrealistic, and has already been proved false, not just by Tarja and Marcelo, buy by Emppu's statements in the book and by Anette herself in a couple of interviews.

     tluesi wrote on 14.11.2009 at 19:33

242. "I don't concider it caring fans if you want to cancel a sold-out concert just because you want to train for Christmas concerts, meet friends and go to the movies."
     
     Again,you are only parroting what the band said.Did you take the time to read what Marcelo said about this?
     
     Let me tell you.
     He said that until few days before the show,no one had informed them about the show,so she had arranged her rehearsals and meeting with friends based on the fact that she had free time.
     
     When they were informed about the show,of course they canceled what she had arranged,and the show went on.
     
     Why you have to believe ONLY what the band says?
     
     And let's consider it logically.
     Tarja,a professional singer who has shown that she cares about her fans,would like to cancel a sold out show just to go to the movies???
     And if she was as greedy as they say,it still makes no sense why she would cancel the show,which would give her more money.
     
     
     Still,how can ONE canceled evening fit a whole program of rehearsals,meeting with friends and going to the movies?She's not Superman.
     
     "Not in public but what about behind the curtains? She has never corrected so called lies."
     
     We judge NW based on what they did IN PUBLIC.
     And why would she?Who would believe her?
     But her husband did.How about reading their side of the story?

     Legeon wrote on 14.11.2009 at 19:51

243. "Sorry, but whats your reason to talk in this thread with or about so pathetic humans like me?????"
     
     Because you come here, complain too much about others attitude and comments here/which you don't like, but still come/ and how you don't want to come here and you are leaving and saying goodbyes, but next time you are still here - so naturally people, including me notice that and call it pathetic.
     
     "And I mean it for BOTH sides!!!!
     I talk for BOTH sides, and not only for NNW..and I never, ever said , that I got a problem with Tarja or Marcelo!!
     I have a problem with people who only want to see ONE side of the story!! "
     
     Who started all this - calling names, accusations in public- evil Tarja and evil Marcelo? No, NW started it, by this letter, one-sided letter! NW set this one-side story for everyone out there, for any newcomer to NW music, who will know only this kind of story: Tarja and Marcel were bad, NW were good and victims.
     Even just common metal listeners which are not in particular NW's fan, just from metal comunity when it comes to say something about NW, they know that story only like that and bash Tarja (they not even NNW fans or not NW fans at all).
     
     And then others people see that and understand that and see very good reasons that NW do really shitty things, yes do them in public, they are not described in someone's letter, people who say and stress that suddenly turn out only one-sided and bad, because they do so?
     You know that this kind of discussions helped quite many people already to see the light out there- even some NNF change their opinion knowing about this matter not in NW's one-sided story!
     
     
     "And yes I don´t want to come here the next time, but I didn´t said I never come back here... "
     
     You said you'd come back when NW would release new album or smth like this, but I didn't know that they released it already:)
     
     " that Iam curious whats coming up next, its like a daily soap..nobody likes it ,but all here knows the news of it :-)
     I think the most of people here have the same reason;-) "
     
     Trolls have those reasons, yes, but most people here do not have that hilly-billy's attitude just to watch soap here and make fun out of it, out of being flattly curious.

     Z. wrote on 14.11.2009 at 20:39

244. @Earwen
     
     "they published the letter and the book"
     
     Where's your proof that they are lies?
     
     "BBB and MPG on DPP, + touring with BBB for about a year"
     
     Lies? No.
     
     "- Tuomas said that Anette has the same vocal range as Tarja and wouldn't need any time, and by now everyone should know that's a lie."
     
     Vocal range may be the same but it's different thing how easily she reaches it and how does it sound.
     
     "- a manager, too ( even though Tuomas said the new singer shouldn't have one)"
     
     The boys did not give trouble after Anette discussed about hiring a manager. And Tuomas has said the guy is very nice and doesn't disturb Nightwish.
     
     "- complained about communication problems"
     
     Well, at least Tuomas has admitted that his social skills suck and that's why it's not easy for him to talk about serious things. Understandable, I'm quite the same.
     
     "- her own website, merchandise and solo album (while Tuomas said Tarja didn't concentrate on NW)"
     
     Nightwish is having a break and everybody is doing what they want. Both Marco and Tuomas has said it's ok that Anette is doing her solo album. What should she do until Nw goes to the studio? Sitting on couch and fart? That's a lame way the earn bread to eat.
     
     "- complained about bad vibes in the band"
     
     Not recently. Or have I missed something?
     
     "- run off the stage in Belo Horizonte, crying, and the band/management gave more than three different explanations why she did so."
     
     Which one of these three do you believe?
     
     "So, where are yours that prove NW are the innocent ones and Tarja is to blame? I'm very curious."
     
     I have not said that only Tarja is to blame. If I gave that kind of picture, accidentally, I'm sorry.

     Jäävuori wrote on 14.11.2009 at 23:59

245. @Orion
     
     "Cause those people are close to band and would support their position.
     And btw some people who were close to band didn't say bad words or stay with NW, like it was with that staff guy, whom you can see on FWTE doc and who is now in Tarja's band :)"
     
     Isn't people close to the band the best witnesses because they saw and heard everything? Most of the comments were given when things happened, not after Tarja was fired.
     
     "They got the wrong picture cause they wanted to see it like this and interpret like this, in fact I think they saw another picture, not the one they presented to everyone in the end, it was more comfy for them to see it like this and which is more important to present it to the public like this and that is called twisting."
     
     Proof?

     Jäävuori wrote on 15.11.2009 at 00:03

246. @ Iris
     
     "Oh, info again from that famous letter- you onyl probably missed the point that she already told that she was informed about that sold-out concert too late, when she already had planned Christmas concerts and band knew that she had those planned Christmas concerts. But again NW didn't mention it in their lovely letter."
     
     Sold-out or not, there were people who had bought tickets and were looking forward to the gig.

     Heli wrote on 15.11.2009 at 00:08

247. @tluese
     
     "Her husband actually did it, but you obviously didn't bother reading his side of the story. Prejudice anyone?"
     
     Where can I find Marcelo's story?
     
     "Other plane? Sorry, maybe I didn't understand well. If you are implying that Tarja and her husband wanted to fly with a DIFFERENT plane then you're misinformed. This is something that people who read only NW's side of the story tend to believe. In his answer, Tarja's husband said that when they had to travel long distances he and Tarja preferred to fly while usually the guys wanted to party in the tourbus. They NEVER took DIFFERENT planes."
     
     Ok, my dyslexia won the battle when I was reading the letter. So, when the boys travelled by bus, the Cabulis were sitting in plane. The point is still the same: the boys did not give trouble because of that.
     
     "Now, saying that she didn't want to do it because she's EVIIIIIILZ and she woke up one morning saying "Today I am going to cancel a sold-out concert 'cause I'm a bitch yeahh!!" is VERY different from saying they didn't inform her until it was too late and she had other plans. Again, the power of rhetoric and manipulation."
     
     I never mentioned word 'evil'.
     
     "But as an intelligent individual I simply cannot accept the ridiculous, childish WE=GOOD, SHE(AND HUSBAND)=EVIL that NW PR and management tried to sell their fans."
     
     Now you don't know the other side of the story. Tuomas has commented that he whippes everyone in DPP lyrics but most of the whipping goes to his own back. And many interviews have told that the band blames also themselves.
     
     "It's plainly unrealistic, and has already been proved false, not just by Tarja and Marcelo, buy by Emppu's statements in the book and by Anette herself in a couple of interviews."
     
     That's right, Emppu's comment brings balance to Nw's version of the story.

     Jäävuori wrote on 15.11.2009 at 00:19

248. @Jäävuori
     
     We gave you MANY proofs that most of the accusations were lies.
     
     BUT if you still insist to see and explain everything from the perspective of Tuomas and NW,it's only your fault.
     
     And Anette started to have her own solo sites and blogs and merchandise and studios booked when she still was on tour with NW.
     
     "That's a lame way the earn bread to eat."
     
     Not as lame as spending all the money you earn on incredibly expensive clothing and haircuts and massage sessions.
     So,if you think that she just does her solo stuff "to have money to eat",you're really naive.
     
     That solo album was her goal from the very start-or do you think she joined the band because she suddenly looooooved metal?
     Yes,i think it's pretty natural for a declared pop lover to join metal bands just for the love of it.
     
     "The boys did not give trouble after Anette discussed about hiring a manager."
     
     Again,you only say the official line that Tuomas admitted.He has actually admitted that he was very angry and worried and had that "deja vu" feeling...Or you think that the last tour was named like that just for fun?It's pretty obvious that they now face the same problems with Tarja---and in 1/5 of time.Tarja needed 10 years to wake up,Anette only 2.
     
     "Well, at least Tuomas has admitted that his social skills suck and that's why it's not easy for him to talk about serious things."
     
     That is not the same with communication problems.Communication problems are problems inside the whole band,and difficulties in discussing matters and getting along.
     
     And if that's the case,why didn't Tuomas admitted his lack of social skills BEFORE or even while he said all those things for Tarja?Why weren't his social skills accused for what happened?
     
     "Isn't people close to the band the best witnesses because they saw and heard everything?"
     
     Not when they're employees and in direct relation to the band.
     
     Example:i can go to the court and say that someone did X things to me,but people will believe me if i present INDIVIDUAL and INDEPENDENT people to testify that,not if i bring my fiancee,my friends or my mother.OR any people that is close to me enough to be influenced by the relationship we have.
     
     "Proof?"
     
     I'm sorry,but what you think is more possible?
     
     To have some events twisted and presented in a different way OR Tarja to be an evil witch that ON PURPOSE wanted to cancel a show which would give her money and abandon her fans just to hit the cinemas,when she could just easily re-schedule everything and just go the next day???
     
     What NW said didn't make any sense.
     

     Legeon wrote on 15.11.2009 at 00:26

249. @Heli
     
     What exactly you want to say by that?The freakin show went on as scheduled.
     
     Oh,and now you people remember that there are fans that bought tickets and waited for the show?
     
     And what about abandoning stage for "psychological reasons" and completely abandoning the fans after only 6 songs?Tarja never abandoned her fans like that,not even when she was sexually assaulted on stage.

     Legeon wrote on 15.11.2009 at 00:29

250. "Isn't people close to the band the best witnesses because they saw and heard everything? Most of the comments were given when things happened, not after Tarja was fired. "
     
     If people are so very close to the band, they often depend on/have some friend relations with band/somebody from the band, and they are already not an entirely independent opinion source or witnesses, as they basically just can take some party's side for such simple reason as just stick to my friends position whatever happens/just stick to people thanks to whom I have job and money, etc.
     
     "Proof?"
     
     The letter is written only in one-sided form,NW don't speak of their faults, don't talk about actions from their side and their roles in all that, straightly creating one-sided image that it was only those two people's fault. The letter is very fast published on website, in order to create this one-sided imagerapidly through media and in people's mind. And the fact it self that this letter was made like this also, as they didn't tell it all straight in those people's faces.

     Orion wrote on 15.11.2009 at 01:49

251. @ Heli
     
     "Sold-out or not, there were people who had bought tickets and were looking forward to the gig."
     
     I'm sorry for them.
     But those people first should ask NW why did they inform their singer so late about that gig and why didn't they mention it in this lovely letter when they were accusing other people of that :)
     NW also cancelled gigs, when there were little time before the gig itself already and there were also people who bought tickets and were looking forward to gigs :)

     Iris wrote on 15.11.2009 at 01:56

252. Jäävuori: For what exactly do you demand proof, and what exactly do you consider proof? None of the accusations directed against Tarja or Marcelo was buttressed by anything resembling proof either, by the way.
     
     I think when people use the word "lie" here, they use it in a somewhat loose way. You can lie with statistics and suggestions as well, without any actually factually incorrect assertions. Misrepresenting the facts, omissions, misleading phrasing, rhetorical questions, innuendo, indirect statements, lots of rhetorical tricks are known to twist the truth without ever really breaking it, guiding the impression of the reader or listener and letting the intended picture form in their head, and the NW book is full of such tricks.
     
     One of those tricks was suggesting that concerts did not take place when in fact, they did take place. So much for Heli's objection.
     
     "Vocal range", by the way, is a quite objective issue. If you can reach certain notes only by screaming and only approximately, they are simply not part of your range.

     Almagest wrote on 15.11.2009 at 02:42

253. Oh, and to bring up an older subject, I still find it incredibly dishonest by Tuomas to say (or at least imply) that NW fans who don't like Anette's voice or the songs/lyrics on DPP are not "true fans", while embracing fans who hate Tarja's voice even though he used to praise her a lot for bringing his compositions to life.

     Almagest wrote on 15.11.2009 at 02:51

254. I noticed something - Anette talks about a show called Kuorosota in her blog (http://anette-olzon.blogspot.com/2009/11/slept.html),and Marco did an interview in that show 2 weeks ago (http://www.nelonen.fi/ohjelmat/kuorosota/videot?vt=video&vid=47933),but she does not 'say' anything about that...I don't know why but this seems a lil bit strange to me...
     
     This video is not bad,she sings well.Well,I don't think that her clothes and behaviour are matching but the singing is more important.

     Enkeli wrote on 15.11.2009 at 03:07

255. "BUT if you still insist to see and explain everything from the perspective of Tuomas and NW,it's only your fault."
     
     What else do I have? I'm not a friend of the band.
     
     "And Anette started to have her own solo sites and blogs and merchandise and studios booked when she still was on tour with NW."
     
     So?
     
     "Not as lame as spending all the money you earn on incredibly expensive clothing and haircuts and massage sessions.
     So,if you think that she just does her solo stuff "to have money to eat",you're really naive."
     
     Why do you assume she spends ALL the money to those things you mentioned? Remember that she has a son who she has to feed, too. And massage is very good, wish I had time and money to have one..
     
     "That solo album was her goal from the very start-or do you think she joined the band because she suddenly looooooved metal?
     Yes,i think it's pretty natural for a declared pop lover to join metal bands just for the love of it."
     
     I see you can see only bad things and reasons that you can't prove to be true. Solo album and the other stuff is not good enough. Did the though ever crossed you mind that she wanted to do something different?
     
     "Again,you only say the official line that Tuomas admitted.He has actually admitted that he was very angry and worried and had that "deja vu" feeling...Or you think that the last tour was named like that just for fun?It's pretty obvious that they now face the same problems with Tarja---and in 1/5 of time.Tarja needed 10 years to wake up,Anette only 2."
     
     I remember him saying that she was worried and had that dejá vu thing but not anymore when he had discussed with Anette. I repeat myself: he also said that he likes her manager.
     
     "Not when they're employees and in direct relation to the band."
     
     Note that there were many others who did not get salary from the band.
     
     "I'm sorry,but what you think is more possible?"
     
     To not speculate by claiming that the boys wanted only to hurt Tarja. When I read the letter and the book for the first time with an open mind I sensed sadness.
     
     @ Orion
     
     "If people are so very close to the band, they often depend on/have some friend relations with band/somebody from the band, and they are already not an entirely independent opinion source or witnesses, as they basically just can take some party's side for such simple reason as just stick to my friends position whatever happens/just stick to people thanks to whom I have job and money, etc."
     
     Many people who ere close to the band were also close to Tarja and were her friends too. Dispite of that they did not always praise her or the boys.
     
     "The letter is written only in one-sided form,NW don't speak of their faults, don't talk about actions from their side and their roles in all that, straightly creating one-sided image that it was only those two people's fault. The letter is very fast published on website, in order to create this one-sided imagerapidly through media and in people's mind. And the fact it self that this letter was made like this also, as they didn't tell it all straight in those people's faces."
     
     The letter tells the reasons why the band fired Tarja. The things that the band did wrong were not the reasons. The letter was written for Tarja, not for the public. Nexts two weeks were given for interviews and in the interviews Tuomas also mentioned what the boys did wrong. The book also tells them.

     Jäävuori wrote on 15.11.2009 at 03:29

256. @Iris
     
     Don't be sorry,the bloody show went on just fine.

     Legeon wrote on 15.11.2009 at 03:39

257. @ Jäävuori
     
     Regarding Marcelo's answers, try wikipedia..I don't know where else you can look for them, sorry.
     
     "Now you don't know the other side of the story"
     
     No one knows the "real" story. Nor me, nor you; that's not the point. I have no problem believing everyone was at fault, and I really don't need to know the details. It's not my business anyway.
     I have had enough experiences of life to know human relationships are extremely complex, and that when a mess like this happens more or less everyone is to blame. I don't believe Cabuli is a saint neither that Tarja is an innocent angel.
     I repeat, that is not the point.
     And neither what Tuomas says in interviews is the point: good for him if he says everyone is to blame. that doesn't change the content of the letter.
     
     The point is the letter, and how it is worded.
     
     As I said, it's UNREALISTIC. Why? Because, even though no one knows the details, anyone with at lest a bit of intelligence and conscience KNOWS that when such big personal and professional problems happens NO ONE INVOLVED IS ENTIRELY INNOCENT.
     Does the letter says things as they truly are? Does it say "you made mistakes, we made mistakes, let's part ways"?
     NO.
     
     What the letter does is stereotyping. Good and Evil. Light and Darkness. Black and White.
     And that's exactly what makes the letter FASCINATING: people want to believe that things are black and white, they prefer myths where Good and Evil are totally different and recognizable and the Good always triumphs. Reality is complex. Reality has nuances. And people are AFRAID of nuances.
     
     So, the supposed "facts" presented in the letter are manipulated in a way to make them look far worse than they really are. There are no nuances, just stereotypes.
     
     Look at yourself: you believed she didn't want to fly with the guys in the same plane; while she simply took a plane only for long-distance travelling, mainly in the USA (when they travelled in Europe she was in the bus with them). Also, sometimes the guys decided to travel with her, and in the same plane.
     One day I read on youtube a guy asking why she was fired. Someone else answered : "Because she demanded a private jet to fly alone with her husband!!!" that's a perfect example of manipulation.
     
     you believed that she purposefully wanted to cancel a sold-out concert, and you brought up this topic to prove she doesn't care that much for her fans. While in reality she was just informed late.
     
     You probably believe that one day she came to Tuomas and said out of the blue: "Uhm, you know, I can leave this band with a week's notice." While in reality she said it during an ugly fight where BOTH she and Tuomas were yelling at each other, and probably BOTH of them were deadly wrong in doing so. Not evil diva versus poor shy poet.
     
     As a semiologist and someone who has spent much time analyzing the relationships between power and communication, I can assure you that the letter was worded it very subtle and manipulative way. And your own beliefs about the matter are the proof of that.
     

     tluesi wrote on 15.11.2009 at 12:10

258. @Jäävuori
     
     "Many people who ere close to the band were also close to Tarja and were her friends too. Dispite of that they did not always praise her or the boys.
     
     Yeah, as you said "also" - meaning they were the band's friends, and since Tarja was then in the band, they were also considered her friends, cause she was in the same set. But firstly they were band's friends and naturally would support the band's point of view more.
     
     "The letter tells the reasons why the band fired Tarja. The things that the band did wrong were not the reasons. The letter was written for Tarja, not for the public. Nexts two weeks were given for interviews and in the interviews Tuomas also mentioned what the boys did wrong. The book also tells them."
     
     Ha, the letter tells some specualations why the Tarja should be fired like this, but this specualtions are only one-sided, it only tells things which she according to them did wrong,band excluded their behaviour and actions in all that context. No, the things band did wrong WERE the reasons as well, cause obviously they influenced on Tarja and affected her, but in that letter they made it like this, that they didn't anything wrong and Tarja and he husband were in some kind of vacum, doing bad things, cause they are so bad , while there was no band's fault .
     
     And those interviews were already after that letter, when letter did it effect and it wasn't as big as media PR thing as was that letter, and their self-blaming wasn't that wide and effective as was impression from that letter. Both linterviews and book, not ot mention letter of course, more concentrate on how it was Tarja fault, but mention less their own faults.
     Also that DPP whipping does not count, firstly because in songs like BBB and MPG Maestro didn't whipped himself a lot, he continued to whipe out Tarja and Marcelo, so his pretensious self-whipping in the rest DPP do not show as large and actually is a good pose of himself for his fans who take it as "poor Tuomas, he says he did difficult things for himself cause he was so forced and harmed by those nasty people to do it".
     
     "This video is not bad,she sings well."
     
     Actually she doesn't, though this song, and as a duet, is easier, than other songs she made, but she still doesn't cope with it.

     Orion wrote on 15.11.2009 at 12:57

259. @tluesi
     
     Great point. And isn't is just lovely that this person who even didn't bother himself to read another side of the story, Marcelo's answers, and only bases his opinions on subtle and manipulative letter and this manipulative book, also try to say that it is others who are wrong and only one-sided. But at the same time he excuses and finds reasons for Tuomas and Anette doing nothing wrong, while for Tarja and Marcelo he finds only reasons to blame. Actually he totally failed to sound objective in this one.

     Esme wrote on 15.11.2009 at 13:10

260. Legeon I'l add my answers as well, hope you don't mind :)
     
     "Why do you assume she spends ALL the money to those things you mentioned? "
     
     Cause she talks about it all the time, nostly about only those things and nothing else. If person speaks all the time about the same thing, it is clear that they are prime interests.
     
     "I see you can see only bad things and reasons that you can't prove to be true. Solo album and the other stuff is not good enough. Did the though ever crossed you mind that she wanted to do something different? "
     
     Actually she can prove, Anette's music preferences lie mostly in pop music and she spoke about it several times in her blog.
     Oh, sweet Anette wanted to do something else- she is only two years in the band and she already wants to do something else, but evil Tarja who spent 8 years in the band and wanted also to do something else like a solo album and christmas concerts is bad diva :)))
     
     "I remember him saying that she was worried and had that dejá vu thing but not anymore when he had discussed with Anette. I repeat myself: he also said that he likes her manager. "
     
     
     So first it was said that whoever new singer in NW would be, she must not have personal manager, but ha, she hired personal manager, Tuomas was troubled with that but now it is SO natural. BTW, for your information, before that open letter came out and every NW fanboy and fangirl found out about Marcelo The Devil, nobody knew that Tuomas hated Marcelo so much and that he had SO much trouble with him.:))
     
     "To not speculate by claiming that the boys wanted only to hurt Tarja.
     
     
     And Marcelo as well- he was hurt too, being portraited as almost devil mastermind and later like "mafioso" and "serpent", he is human too with feelings, but suprisingly some people tend to forget that.
     Oh, the whole sadness thing- I felt sadness for people who were put down in dirt so much as if both of them were criminals with several corpses on their hands, so the only thing they desevered is to be fired by open letter behind their backs.
     
     
     
     
     
     

     Iris wrote on 15.11.2009 at 13:22

261. "Did the though ever crossed you mind that she wanted to do something different? "
     
     This is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard of.
     Something different from WHAT?
     Her loooooong career in metal?
     Besides,her first band was playing the exact same music she wants to do for her solo album-and she did more than just 1 album with them.
     
     So,different from WHAT?She got tired from her large career in metal and wants to do something different?
     
     
     "I see you can see only bad things and reasons that you can't prove to be true."
     
     Said the guy who brings as facts whatever Tuomas and the letter said.
     Also said the guy that believes that of course the one to blame is Marcelo entirely.
     

     Legeon wrote on 15.11.2009 at 19:49

262. I'm so looking forward to the next album. Now that Tuomas knows Anette's limits he can compose music and vocals that fit her voice and don't make her suffer. She has a beautiful voice when she sings songs that she can sing without feeling any kind of pain. :)
     
     Nightwish, you have the support of at least one old fan!

     Finnish Lapphund (my top favourite dog breed!) wrote on 15.11.2009 at 22:59

263. "I'm so looking forward to the next album. Now that Tuomas knows Anette's limits he can compose music and vocals that fit her voice and don't make her suffer. ""
     
     Yeah, Anette already said that he would write more in her "comfort zone", and her comfort-zone is obviously more pop, pop-rock :) Pop-rock, here we go. But it wouldn't really matter if she would stop singing old NW songs and would sing only songs from DPP and that new album :) Cause they don't fit her and sounds really bad.

     Wilska wrote on 16.11.2009 at 17:51

264. "Did the though ever crossed you mind that she wanted to do something different?"
     
     Well it's rather obvious that she wants to do something different, otherwise she would either wait until she had to get in the studio for recording the next NW album or if she wanted desperately to go on singing, she would aim at a more metal/rock style.
     
     That is not the issue, IMO, whether she wants to do something different or not. It's her own decision. What IS an issue though is how much she emphasizes on this solo work. Or rather - the way she chooses to emphasize on it. You can pretty much tell from her blog that she desperately wants to be aknowledged as a solo artist first and foremost, and THEN as the singer of Nightwish. This wouldn't be bad in itself if she belonged in a new band; but now that she became famous overnight THANKS to a band that has been around for over a decade, it seems as a bit of bad mockery towards the guys that she promotes her solo work such blatantly. It's as if she tells the guys "OK, you've made me famous, now it's me in the spotlight, you stay back and I will conquer the world with my solo album".
     
     BTW, someone said she's doing the solo album so that she can have bread to eat or something. Honestly, I don't believe her album will be THAT successful, commercial-wise.
     
     And to comment on something on the subject of this topic - I am surely looking forward to the next album, because I am still a fan of the music that Tuomas writes. I don't mind that it's gonna be brighter. I'd love to hear what he has in his mind.
     
     I have a question though. I was listening to several 'old era' songs the other day, and I noticed something concerning the music and vocals. Tarja's voice was not always perfect, but it had a lot of power - inner power, fullness that is; it was a robust voice (hope I make myself clear enough?). I realized that, for me at least, this is what makes Annette's interpretations so weak. It's not that she is a bad singer, nor that she is not classically trained, nor that she can't reach high notes etc. It's that, no matter how much she screams, her voice will never have the power that most NW songs require. The music is so grandiose and majestic, that it makes her voice sound desperately light and weak (it's not just chance that she sounds so much better in more acoustic songs, like Walking In The Air). I still find some of her performances pretty decent, she seems to be able to add the necessary emotion to several songs. But I think that, no matter how much she practices and improves, she will never be able to achieve the power that NW music requires.
     
     Which made me think, why Tuomas never considered hiring a male vocalist instead? A singer with the vocal style of Kamelot's Khan, for instance, or like the singer of Firewind, would have been perfect, IMO: such voices are able to be equally powerful and tender, depending on what they have to sing. Just a theoretical question, I don't think there's an answer to it, lol.

     Sin wrote on 16.11.2009 at 18:54

265. @Sin
     
     Very good comment.And i actually respect people that can have opinions well justified.It doesn't matter to me if they like Tuomas' music or not,as long as they can speak like normal intelligent persons.
     
     (this rant was addressed to to anyone that thinks i attack to people that like Tuomas or his music).
     
     I would like to comment on a few things:
     
     "Well it's rather obvious that she wants to do something different"
     
     What annoys me is that her fans say "she wants to do something different"...But they don't ask themselves:WHY?
     She obviously wants to do something different since she doesn't even like metal.if she did,she wouldn't mind waiting until NW next album.
     
     "Or rather - the way she chooses to emphasize on it."
     
     Exactly.If you notice her blog,the only chance of mentioning NW when they had live shows,she was asking her fans what to wear,and after the show posting photos of what she wore!
     
     "But I think that, no matter how much she practices and improves, she will never be able to achieve the power that NW music requires."
     
     Yeah,that's true.
     One reason for that is that she doesn't show to "feel" the deep emotions that NW music expresses.For example,she can sing DPP songs without lacking that power exactly because of the lack of real emotion in that album(well,i don't consider whining as emotion).
     And that's why she sings them like she's singing about bubble gums and teenage love crashes.
     
     One other reason is her over-vocalizing.Tarja sounds so strong because she holds the same note and doesn't sound like yeeeiiiiiiaaaa.
     
     "A singer with the vocal style of Kamelot's Khan, for instance, or like the singer of Firewind, would have been perfect, IMO"
     
     I like your taste in singers :)
     Yes,a singer like Roy Khan or Apollo would have been great...I know they have Marco,but let's face it,Marco doesn't sing as powerful as he used to...Too much drink.

     Legeon wrote on 16.11.2009 at 20:05

266. Jäävuori said:
     
     "The letter was written for Tarja, not for the public."
     
     BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
     
     Sure, kid. That's why they wrote at the end of the letter:
     
     "P. S.: This is an open letter for everybody."
     
     I can't tell if you are naive, selective, stupid, or whatever. The only thing that is clear to me is that I can't take you the least bit seriously anymore.
     
     OF COURSE this was their way to white-wash themselves and put the blame on the victim.
     
     Sin: Her blatant way of promoting herself and her solo career is also terribly awkward and insensitive considering how Tarja was blamed for pursuing a solo career, and neglecting Nightwish, and treating them like a backing band, a springboard to fame.
     
     As for the lead vocals - they could have easily made Marco the lead vocalist. But he didn't want to, because he has already Tarot, where he writes the music, as well. Another reason is that Nightwish have become known as a female-fronted band, and that is what the public and the fans expect. It is part of Tuomas's vision for the band, too: it was always supposed to have a female lead. Finally, Marco's range doesn't allow him to sing the songs either (see the Amaranth demo). Since there are almost no male sopranists, the key of the songs would have to be lowered drastically anyway and I'm not at all sure that the audiences would accept that, and of course the abolition of female-male duets and the contrast between feminine and masculine image. This would not work in so many respects (for the vast majority of the audience, that is). Can you imagine Marco duetting with a power metal tenor? That would be the laugh of the whole scene, and provoke all kinds of jokes about the sexual orientation of the band members.
     
     No, I can rather see Britney Spears in the band.

     Almagest wrote on 16.11.2009 at 20:35

267. Another point - Marco prefers to share the vocal duties in NW because long concerts are quite hard on the voice, so dual leads are a definite advantage for the vocalists in a band. After all, he knows the single lead vocalist drill from Tarot. No, Marco is definitely out as lead vocalist for Nightwish.
     
     I don't see bands re-gender their vocalists anyway. But bands so dependent on image as female-fronted bands are are an even bigger problem. Even a female-fronted Stratovarius (see Miss K) would probably not have been that controversial.
     
     Personally, I wouldn't say that it couldn't work FOR ME. I listen to enough male-fronted power metal so that I wouldn't reject the possibility in principle. Sure as hell I would be curious how it'd sound to have those songs performed by a bloke. But I can tell that many fans, especially those into female voices, would miss that element too much.

     Almagest wrote on 16.11.2009 at 20:47

268. "Which made me think, why Tuomas never considered hiring a male vocalist instead?"
     
     Err, two male singers in same band? Singing Eva? o_O I'm sorry but Marco's version of Eva was horrible ehough. :)

     Dera wrote on 16.11.2009 at 20:51

269. Oh, and by the way: I suspect that a high-pitched lead vocalist would effectively kill their chances on the mainstream US market, because that style of vocals, even more so in connection with melodic hard rock or metal, would be perceived as totally outmoded and "so 80s" or even "totally gay". Even in the metal scene in general a lot of people do not favour high-pitched male vocals. High-pitched female leads are no problem, on the other hand, even for quite some people who can't stand "eunuchs" but enjoy the kind of music that NW play in principle.

     Almagest wrote on 16.11.2009 at 20:53

270. Therefore, I think a male lead is totally out of the question, whether through re-gendering or promotion of Marco's status. There may be Marco fans who would totally embrace the idea, but overall I think the effect would turn out rather comical.

     Almagest wrote on 16.11.2009 at 20:57

271. Marcelo's answers to the fans' questions can be found here, by the way:
     
     http://web.archive.org/web/20070703211904/http://www.tarjaturunen.com/fans.html

     Almagest wrote on 16.11.2009 at 21:31

272. @ Legeon: LOL @ the Marco comment :D I think he's great when he sings softly (Islander, While Your Lips...) but I don't like him so much when he screams. He shouts too much, lol. Although it's quite obvious that he has quite a voice. Well I confess it, I prefer male vocalists. IMO, Vincent of Anathema has the loveliest voice that exists. A female vocalist has to have something REALLY special about her voice so that it can appeal to me (ie, Simone, Anneke, Tarja). That's just my opinion, of course :)
     
     "If you notice her blog,the only chance of mentioning NW when they had live shows,she was asking her fans what to wear,and after the show posting photos of what she wore!"
     
     Oh, but you forgot when she posed wearing a NW belt as well!!!! Haha :D Well it was not exactly posing, she was showing off something (can't remember now what) and the photo was from her waist and down and you could see her belt, that it had the NW logo on it. So there, she does support her band, she is wearing their merchandise, lol!! :D
     
     And of course I agree about the over-vocalizing thing, that was something I didn't like from the beginning, although she wasn't doing it so much back then. And yes, one of Tarja's strongest points was that she was singing so steadily without useless over-vocalizing. I was wondering at first if Anette did this as singing style or to cover up certain vocal weaknesses. I tend to believe now it's the second now (well actually I am pretty sure it's that).

     Sin wrote on 16.11.2009 at 21:32

273. @Sin
     
     Wow,did she really posted a pic of her wearing a NW belt?!?
     
     Gosh,people,i'm so sorry,i was so wrong...She actually ADORES NW!
     
     God...But honestly now,i have searched her blog and she has only mentioned Tuomas:
     1)after the "Black Silk" show,where she said she texted him...WOW.
     2)when some fan asked her in the questions-answers round.
     
     If she hadn't the "singer for the band Nightwish",no one that doesn't know her could tell that she sings for NW.
     
     
     As for the male vocalists,i prefer male singers too...I like Tarja and i loooove Lori(Therion),but my favorite singers are male:
     1)Of course you will know that if you have seen me again in this site:Bruce Dickinson
     2)Mats Leven
     3)Roy Khan
     4)Thomas Vikstrom
     5)Joakim Broden

     Legeon wrote on 16.11.2009 at 21:47

274. @Sin
     
     You know,Anette fans INSIST that her over-vocalizing isn't over-vocalizing.it's because of her singing technique(belting).
     
     BUT what we know about belting?Well,belting is the technique that most singers use,when they don't sing classically..Which is basically,how all non-classical vocalists sing...
     
     But then,why she's the only one that does it?How come she's the only one that sounds so bad when she does it?
     
     I admit i have noticed,for example,Bruce doing it,but we're talking about ONE time in ONE song during a whole show.
     I remember this one:
     During Revelations,when he says:
     
     "So we lay in a black embrace,
     And the Seed is sown in a holy place
     And I watched, and I waited for the Dawn."
     
     He tends to say "...for the Dawawawn".
     Only that.(not to mention that it's HIS song,he doesn't ruin someone else's song).

     Legeon wrote on 16.11.2009 at 21:54

275. Tuomas is very talented songwriter. He can compose any kind of music. Just look at all Nightwish albums, every album is different from others. Then we have these non-Nightwish songs like Kiteen Pallo and WYSLAR.
     
     I think DPP was very good album. It wasn't too light but it has so many different kind of songs that anyone in the world would find a song they liked. My 50-year-old mom, for example, loves Eva and when she first heard the song from the radio, she said: "Anette has a very beautiful voice." My dad, well, he likes all kind of music and has no trouble while listening old Nightwish albums. His favourite part in TPATP is the third part where Anette and the boy soprano are singing their duet. :)
     
     I'm not putting my hopes too up but I'm sure the next album will be good in some way. Every Nightwish album has their strengths and weaknesses and the next one will have it's owns. Two years is a long time but the album will be worth waiting. :)

     Looking forward... wrote on 16.11.2009 at 22:40

276. @Looking forward...
     
     The only thing that going to more generic mainstream sound is not exactly being different in a good way :). For example, Haggard, they experimented yes, but did they become more mainstream, more into pop-rock direction? No, not at all :)
     
     The problem here is that going to this more mainstream sound started earlier than DPP, DPP just follows that track, obviously, but one more reason is the vocals now as Anette is really can't provide anything extra special in order to change that maisntreaming or smooth it as her manner of singing is too poppy and her approach to songs is like this, and as it was said, voice lacks power too much (screaming is not power).
     Though she is decent in stuido version ,her live performances of the same DPP songs are not as decent , really iffy. :(
     That's the problem.
     
     @Sin, I liked your points :)

     Wilska wrote on 16.11.2009 at 23:29

277. Not trying to be mean, but ....
     
     Looking forward... said:
     
     "Tuomas is very talented songwriter. He can compose any kind of music."
     
     I haven't ever seen a classical piece, or a jazz piece from him. Just for example. In fact according to my knowledge, he doesn't like either kind of music.
     
     There are so many kinds of music. Even I, though I do listen to various kinds of music, am familiar only with a small fraction of them. People who are familiar only with mainstream music in my experience underestimate the incredible variety in music known to mankind. Usually they aren't even aware that such a thing as modern classical music exists (or think of the wrong things), when this is probably the most varied field known.
     
     I would be VERY cautious with the claim that someone can compose any kind of music (I assume you mean more than just the ability to cobble something together, whether it is interesting or not :-p). Even when it comes to super-geniuses, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Modesty is very important.
     
     "Just look at all Nightwish albums, every album is different from others."
     
     Not really that much, his style is quite recognisable, the main change from album to album being that the songs became more and more accessible for a general, non-specialised audience used to mainstream music mostly. Anyway, I'd say it's much harder to stick to a very specific, narrow style and keep it interesting and original.
     
     "Then we have these non-Nightwish songs like Kiteen Pallo and WYSLAR."
     
     Yeah, Kiteen Pallo is a little masterpiece. xD I didn't think too much of "Why Your Lips Are Still Red" (I think you mean that one) to be honest.
     
     "I think DPP was very good album. It wasn't too light but it has so many different kind of songs that anyone in the world would find a song they liked."
     
     I wouldn't say that this is necessarily a sign of quality, or a very good album.
     
     "My 50-year-old mom, for example, loves Eva and when she first heard the song from the radio, she said: "Anette has a very beautiful voice.""
     
     Well, first off, she said she liked Anette's voice, not the song. :-p Then, you've got it: it was on the radio. It's an easy song to "get" (into) and to like. Nothing overly unusual or extreme or otherwise challenging about it. Very middle-of-the-road. That's just what I've been saying. The more generic the music, the easier for people without special tastes (you can develop a unique taste, it's a sort of cultivation of your mind, but most people's tastes are formed by mainstream media like non-specialised channels on radio and TV, charts music) to like.
     
     "My dad, well, he likes all kind of music"
     
     Again, I hear that often from people, but I doubt that is really true. I don't know anyone who listens to or likes all kinds of music, let alone equally. But it is quite possible that people have simply no idea what "all kinds of music" encompasses.
     
     "and has no trouble while listening old Nightwish albums."
     
     Yeah, alright, provided the listener has no trouble with classical singing, Nightwish is definitely easier to appreciate and like than most metal by far. But that doesn't mean the music is genius level.
     
     The music of true geniuses is more of an acquired taste because it is so out of the ordinary. How about Frank Zappa, for example?
     
     I'm not trying to play taste police - everyone is free to listen to what they enjoy - but trying to give a different perspective. It's a pity that most people have a rather narrow horizon, not only in music, without realising it. That's sad, in a way. The world is so vast and rich and full of variety. Let's put a positive spin to this one: Many more things await to be discovered! And listening to music is one of the safest adventures, physically at least.

     Almagest wrote on 17.11.2009 at 01:30

278. This reminds me of something. Kiteen Pallo is 1:10. If length of a song/piece and creation time are inversely proportional in Tuomas's case, he must have agonised for more of a year over this one. :-p

     Almagest wrote on 17.11.2009 at 01:42

279. Oh, and I can also see that it can seem quite daunting to delve into the field, even if you've become curious. The great thing, however, is that you're totally free and can control how deep you want to immerse yourself in it and how much time and effort you'd like to spend on it. Thanks to the Internet, especially YouTube, it is easy to get a taste of many artists and songs or pieces, whose names you may get across. Isn't that wonderful?

     Almagest wrote on 17.11.2009 at 01:56

280. @ Legeon: The pic I was talking about was in this post:
     
     http://anette-olzon.blogspot.com/2009/10/busans-second-day.html
     
     I had to dig a bit, it was hard to retrace the post (96 posts in October only, omg!!! Is she the Stephen King of Blogspot? LOL.)
     
     @ Almagest: I know it was not possible to hire a male vocalist, that's why I said it's a theoretical question (umm now that I think of it, I should have said 'rhetorical'). But it got me wondering basically because the first albums were quite heavy (well maybe AFF not so much, but Oceanborn and Wishmaster were, and less CC.). Nightwish were not the first to combine heavier music with female vocals, but they were among those who managed it so well (with Tarja). I've read somewhere that Tuomas had an acoustic sound in mind, but changed direction when he heard Tarja's voice. Since they kept this style for about ten years, it's obvious that he/they liked it; I mean ten years is too much time. It's not bad that they decided to shift from this style now, it's just that, in my opinion, Anette was not exactly the correct way to do it. Of course some will tell me that the band knows better than a random fan, but well, as I said, it's my opinion. Her voice has too much '80ties in it, and although it does sound good on certain occasions, those occasions cannot make up for her whole performance thing, they are too few. She sounds very good in Amaranth from Made In Hong Kong, for instance, but I never managed to come to terms with her version of Ever Dream. I tried many times, but I can't like her singing this song. Many people (even some who don't like her) say that she sings it well, but for the life of me I never managed to like her in this song, there was not a single video of it where I liked her.
     
     "I don't know anyone who listens to or likes all kinds of music, let alone equally. But it is quite possible that people have simply no idea what "all kinds of music" encompasses. "
     
     I agree with you! I have a quite wide and varied music taste, but I can't say that I like ALL kinds of music, and naturally I don't like all sorts of voices. I think it's impossible to like everything; liking everything is equal to not liking anything. If you like absolutely everything, it means you have no personal taste nor criteria (in that, you just listen to sounds and like them all because you can't tell what is good or bad to your ear).
     
     @ Wilska: Thank you. :)

     Sin wrote on 17.11.2009 at 14:49

281. Legeon said: "BUT what we know about belting?Well,belting is the technique that most singers use,when they don't sing classically..Which is basically,how all non-classical vocalists sing...
     
     But then,why she's the only one that does it?How come she's the only one that sounds so bad when she does it?"
     
     I guess the point when you use ANY kind of technique, is to make it sound naturally, to not make it evident that you are actually using a technique. When it's so obvious what you are doing to achieve a certain result, you have failed. Personally I wouldn't be so sure that Anette's high notes are always a result of consciously belting - she just screams her lungs out (and not in a good way). So many times her voice sounds so strained, even on occasions that what she has to sing is not so hard nor demanding. Either she uses the technique completely wrong, or she can't achieve a decent result even with it (or both). Several singers who have low voices and can't reach high notes, use their techniques to do it, but it's not obvious what they do; and you listen to them singing high, and what you listen is so good that you don't bother looking into how they do it, you can't even understand that they are doing it with a technique. With Anette's high notes, people started analyzing her techniques and how she does it, because it was so obvious she was struggling to sing those notes.

     Sin wrote on 17.11.2009 at 15:29

282. @Sin
     
     You're absolutely right...For example,when you hear a singer like Bruce or Roy,you only hear a very good voice that goes swimmingly on low or high notes without struggling...And you don't try to find what technique he uses in order to justify anything...
     It sounds like they don't even use any kind of technique.

     Legeon wrote on 17.11.2009 at 20:13

283. @Sin
     
     "Is she the Stephen King of Blogspot? LOL"
     
     haha,nice one :)
     
     Yes,as someone has already said here,she should better abandon the idea of releasing an album and release a book instead...
     
     But i believe the champion in her blog is June...119!

     Legeon wrote on 17.11.2009 at 20:16

284. Wow, Almagest and Sin. Why the heck did you criticize someones *parents*? o_O

     Danar wrote on 17.11.2009 at 22:03

285. I hope Tuomas composes more angry songs like Master Passion Greed. That song really saves my day when I'm very pissed. ^^

     Neito wrote on 17.11.2009 at 22:30

286. @Danar
     Lol, they don't criticize it, they discuss it and comment on what another person said- since that person openly presented stuff about his parents, they just comment it. Totally ok :) Actually they did very good points.
     
     
     @Neito
     If he would make more such angry (and whiny) songs, it wouldn't fall in " brighter" conception of next album he declared :) Unless angry, agressive and whiny means "bright" for him.
     

     Ron wrote on 17.11.2009 at 23:26

287. I agree with Almagest and Sin about the "all kinds of music" thing...
     
     It just doesn't work,at least not for people that like music so much and music plays a big role in their life.
     
     Example:
     My mother(45 years old),says that "she enjoys all kinds of music".And i can assure you that,since she can hear from Greek folk music,pop,trance music,to Rock(she's a huge Queen fan) and even metal(she was the one that got me into Rammstein for God's sake!).
     And you know why?It's because she doesn't gives that much importance in music.For her,music is something to listen when you're in the car driving to work and when you're sitting on the couch,fed up with the TV.
     
     If she was paying importance to music,like i do,she would clearly NOT like all kinds of music.She would have a specific taste.

     Legeon wrote on 18.11.2009 at 06:32

288. @Legeon
     
     "BUT what we know about belting?Well,belting is the technique that most singers use,when they don't sing classically..Which is basically,how all non-classical vocalists sing..."
     
     This statement couldn't be farther from the truth... :)
     I have been taking singing lessons for about 3 years now, non-classical singing (which is called "popular" singing here) and I have never even heard about belting until Anette...seriously...that is jut ONE of the many techniques that exist...the technique I learn, while it's not classical, it makes use of the so called "head" voice to reach high notes, NEVER screaming like that!
     
     Think about Sharon Den Adel for instance, her singing is not-classical, but she reaches very high notes in a very soft voice, with no need to scream or yell and can keep the notes going too...
     
     I'm very interested in learning classical singing as well, I'll be starting lessons real soon (probably next month if money permits), then maybe I can see if what Anette said is right and if it "changes" my voice (I read somewhere here that the reason why she didn't want to learn classical technique was that it changed her voice), but honestly, I have my serious doubts about that...
     
     Here's some info about belting:
     
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_(music)
     
     I found this particularly interesting...
     
     "It is possible to learn classical vocal methods like bel canto and to also be able to belt; in fact, many musical roles now require it. The belt sound is easier for some than others, but the sound is possible for classical singers, too."
     

     Manxita wrote on 18.11.2009 at 16:36

289. Bright or not, I WILL buy the album! I have faith in Tuomas, he has never disappointed me. =)

     Frew wrote on 18.11.2009 at 16:48

290. Sade said: "Ah well, you can continue your "holy quest" as long as you want but remember: judging someone by what he has said is not always logical. Just think why."
     
     Yes of course, how didn't I thought of it before! You should judge someone NOT by what he had said BUT by what others had said about him. In open letters, books, interviews and lyrics. That is ALWAYS logical. The brain fairy is indeed missed here. :-/

     TheSeer wrote on 19.11.2009 at 02:14

291. Jäävuori said: "The letter was written for Tarja, not for the public."
     
     Brain Fairy where are you!??? :-/
     

     TheSeer wrote on 19.11.2009 at 02:24

292. @TheSeer
     
     "Brain Fairy where are you!??? :-/ "
     
     She's allergic to NW,you know XD

     Legeon wrote on 19.11.2009 at 08:32

293. @Manxita
     
     Noooo,Anette didn't stop classical singing because it changed her voice...Her teachers always told her to study classical singing...But she ignored them because she wanted to her own "thing" and scream!!!
     
     ohhh,it's so nice to read poetry... :P

     Legeon wrote on 19.11.2009 at 08:36

294. "Jäävuori said: "The letter was written for Tarja, not for the public."
     
     Brain Fairy where are you!??? :-/ "
     
     I could ask you the same. If the letter was written also for public, how would have it started? That's right: "Dear Tarja and the public". And it would have continued by talking to both Tarja AND the public. ;)
     
     But of course this is just how I see things and there is no need to offend me. Unless you are a child, then I would understand but I hope you are not.

     Kirva wrote on 19.11.2009 at 12:16

295. @Kirva
     
     "Dear Tarja and the public"
     
     Oh,but they didn't put that at the beginning.They put it at the end:
     
     This is an open letter for EVERYBODY.
     
     Besides,making it public SHOWS that it was intended to BE PUBLIC.

     Legeon wrote on 19.11.2009 at 12:52

296. @ Legeon
     
     "Besides,making it public SHOWS that it was intended to BE PUBLIC."
     
     Yes, it was meant to BE public but it was not written FOR the public (the public = people). ;)
     
     I guess these are matters of interpretations.

     Kirva wrote on 19.11.2009 at 21:15

297. @ Legeon
     
     Forgot to mention.
     
     "This is an open letter for EVERYBODY."
     
     I don't know about the English translation of the letter but in original Finnish version the last sentence is:
     
     Ps. Tämä kirje on täysin avoin kaikille.
     
     which means:
     
     Ps. This letter is wholly open for everybody.

     Kirva wrote on 19.11.2009 at 21:22

298. @Kirva
     
     No, if letter WAS meant to BE public, then it is clear that it was written taking this PUBLIC in mind. Cause it was meant to be exposed to THAT public, not just to those two people.
     So, it was written for public- otherwise, it wouldn't have been made open like that. It is clear.
     
     "This letter is wholly open for everybody."
     
     Yes, and it is called "being public", cause private letters are NOT open for everybody. It is not so hard to understand.
     
     But the attempt of some NNF to say that this letter wasn't in fact public, while it was clearly and even others NNF understand that, is really great :)
     

     Esme wrote on 19.11.2009 at 22:10

299. @ Esme
     
     Please, READ what I have written. I said it was MEANT TO BE PUBLIC, but it WAS NOT written FOR the public.

     Kirva wrote on 20.11.2009 at 11:59

300. @Kirva
     
     "I said it was MEANT TO BE PUBLIC, but it WAS NOT written FOR the public."
     
     Think better then if you try to deny such simle and obvious things.
     If letter was meant to BE PUBLIC and was MADE PUBLIC, it is clear that when this letter was written, it was written FOR public as well, taking all public effect in mind clearly,not only for those two people - cause, guess what, if it wasn't written for public as well, it wouldn't have been made public at all, but this letter WAS MEANT TO BE PUBLIC all along. It never meant to be private letter, and it wasn't written like private letter, it was written in that one-sided form, just with accusations or even speculative accusations towards one party, with clear intention of creating public bashing, based on it.
     When you write something with intention to expose it to public, then you write it FOR PUBLIC as well -and you can't pretend that you don't, well you can try, if you are hypocrite, but it won't work. And it doesn't work here.
     And there is no excuse for that.

     Esme wrote on 20.11.2009 at 15:29

301. Puff, Tuomas is really acts like stupid in that interview, this joke is lame and rude, but he wanted to make it public still. That sucks.

     Aragorn wrote on 20.11.2009 at 15:30

302. @ Aragorn
     
     "Puff, Tuomas is really acts like stupid in that interview, this joke is lame and rude, but he wanted to make it public still. That sucks."
     
     Oh, I didn't know you were present when the interview was made. Please, tell us what kind of faces Tuomas made while answering questions.
     
     If I got a wrong picture, then remember: there are many ways how to interpret a written text. Any kind of text can be interpreted in a good and a bad way.

     Jokisen eväs wrote on 20.11.2009 at 21:17

303. This is what I call privacy. All houses of Nightwish members's have been photographed. This is so nice from Finnish press. :P
     
     http://www.seiska.fi/viihdeuutiset/_a104049/nain+upeasti+asuu+nightwishtuomas/?p=1

     Pfff.... wrote on 20.11.2009 at 21:38

304. @ Pfff....
     
     Well, Seiska is a rubbish magazine. No-one should expect to read anything nice from its pages. Jukka has a beautiful house, though. :)

     Fors wrote on 21.11.2009 at 01:56

305. well im disappointed Anette's house/flat i thought it is bigger and more glamorouse, Emppu's... well nice wall, Marco's it doesn't even look like a house, he spends too much money for beer so he doesn't have for the house.

     Isabell wrote on 21.11.2009 at 17:24

306. @ Isabell
     
     "well im disappointed Anette's house/flat i thought it is bigger and more glamorouse, Emppu's... well nice wall, Marco's it doesn't even look like a house, he spends too much money for beer so he doesn't have for the house."
     
     Well I think everyone has the right to choose how they want to live. If you have money it doesn't mean you have to live like a rich guy/lady.
     
     About Marco, well I don't think he drinks much at home. He's got twin sons to raise.

     Kyntökone wrote on 21.11.2009 at 23:47

307. Sin: I'm sure somebody has made a similar point before, but you could say "art is the feat to make a difficult thing appear easy".
     
     Practice and skill is an essential precondition for that, talent isn't enough. :-)
     
     Manxita: Good point (even though Sharon den Adel isn't exactly my favourite non-classical singer). For musical singers, to have undergone classical training is very common. Still, many of them use belting, too, and generally speaking, musical singers do not practice a typical "operatic" style. But you can hear their training (for example, their power and their vibrato) even though they sing in a "pop" (or "soul"-like, or "jazzy") way and musical songs resemble pop songs very much.
     
     Kyntökone: Marco can't even refrain from drinking on stage. He acts like a hard-core drinker, or even an alcoholic. I find it hard to believe he is abstinent at home. :-/ At least he does not seem to be the kind of person who becomes aggressive when drinking, so that's good for his family, sort of.

     Almagest wrote on 22.11.2009 at 05:04

308. By the way, an interesting tidbit I pulled out of Wikipedia regarding Christine's role in ALW's musical The Phantom of the Opera:
     
     "Two actresses are used for the role of Christine (rather than just the actress and an understudy), with the second performing the role two shows a week. This is to provide vocal rest, due to the fact that the role is more vocally demanding than many contemporary singers can handle night after night."

     Almagest wrote on 22.11.2009 at 05:32

309. if it comes to Emppu and Marco i really don't care how they live, but if you mentioned Marco's children if i was rich and had children i would prefer that my children could grow up in better conditions, notice that in that building are 3 flats.as to Anette she loves big, rich houses so i'm just wondering why she still did not buy one.

     Isabell wrote on 22.11.2009 at 15:32

310. @Jokisen eväs
     
     "Oh, I didn't know you were present when the interview was made. Please, tell us what kind of faces Tuomas made while answering questions. "
     
     It has nothing to do with faces he made, lol, it has to do with stupid and rude joke he told out loud and now it is public. There is nothing to interpret here- cause if guy himselfs tells tastless jokes out loud in interviews and flames up the whole thing, it is all very clear and it has one meaning :) But there is nothing good about that.
     
     @Pfff....
     Lol, some privacy, lol.
     
     @Isabell
     But you judge only by outside, and inside it could be more glamorous :) Jukka wins in heaving more cool house, though :) And yeah, Marco should sometimes stay sober, otherwise he need anti-alchoholic treatment already :)

     Aragorn wrote on 22.11.2009 at 16:30

311. @ Kyntökone
     
     Love your nickname, "plowing machine". :'D
     
     @ Almagest
     
     "Marco can't even refrain from drinking on stage. He acts like a hard-core drinker, or even an alcoholic. I find it hard to believe he is abstinent at home. :-/ At least he does not seem to be the kind of person who becomes aggressive when drinking, so that's good for his family, sort of."
     
     So, if person drinks a lot during tours you assume he continues doing the same when being at home? I think he has more things to do at home compared tours. I recall Nw guys have told that they usually don't have much to do while they wait for show's starting. So all they have to do is to kill time. All four shows I saw during DPP tour were awesome including Sauna Open Air in my hometown and that was the only time I saw Marco drunk. ^^

     Crystalium wrote on 23.11.2009 at 00:47

312. Tuomas visited his old school. This the university's ad (Tuomas' part somewhere after middle):
     
     http://cbu.fi/gallery/index.html

     Crystalium wrote on 23.11.2009 at 00:50

313. Aragorn maybe but not on the photos she takes.
     
     Crystalium
     so you think that when he drinks for 2 years almost every day being on tour and then return home he just doesn't drink coz he has better things to do and isn't so bored. He drinks coz he likes it not because he has nothing more interesting to do. Look at others band how they spend free time before gigs.

     Isabell wrote on 23.11.2009 at 12:35

314. @ Isabell
     
     "so you think that when he drinks for 2 years almost every day being on tour and then return home he just doesn't drink coz he has better things to do and isn't so bored. He drinks coz he likes it not because he has nothing more interesting to do. Look at others band how they spend free time before gigs."
     
     I would believe you if you knew Marco personally but I doubt that.

     Crystalium wrote on 23.11.2009 at 12:48

315. I find it very funny that so called "haters" don't want to believe anything good said about Nightwish on nowadays. They want to create drama from every little thing. :'D

     Kiros wrote on 23.11.2009 at 12:51

316. Crystalium
     
     Your faith in his sobriety is impressive.

     Isabell wrote on 23.11.2009 at 14:54

317. "I think he has more things to do at home compared tours. I recall Nw guys have told that they usually don't have much to do while they wait for show's starting. So all they have to do is to kill time."
     
     When person hasn't much to do and that person just wants to kill time, then such person often srarts drinking (alchohol) and since Marco is very fond of drinking already on tour and comes drunk or half-drunk on stage quite often, then hardly he is 100% sober all the time while he is at home, having not mcuh to do and just killing time! Lol, well considering how much he drinks already, it is already bad for his brain cause alchohol damages brains very fast with no return. Not to mention heart and other organs.
     
     @Isabell
     Somebody in this band of course should be sober or more sober at least at times, cause a band of alchoholics isn't very good :)

     Tip-top wrote on 23.11.2009 at 20:08

318. @ Isabell
     
     "Your faith in his sobriety is impressive."
     
     Baby, I could say the same about your belief in his drunkenness. ;)

     Crystalium wrote on 23.11.2009 at 22:48

319. @ Tip-top
     
     "When person hasn't much to do and that person just wants to kill time, then such person often srarts drinking (alchohol) and since Marco is very fond of drinking already on tour and comes drunk or half-drunk on stage quite often, then hardly he is 100% sober all the time while he is at home, having not mcuh to do and just killing time! Lol, well considering how much he drinks already, it is already bad for his brain cause alchohol damages brains very fast with no return. Not to mention heart and other organs."
     
     How did it go...? Oh, yes: lol(lipop). x)
     
     "Somebody in this band of course should be sober or more sober at least at times, cause a band of alchoholics isn't very good :)"
     
     Anette is there. So don't worry. ;)

     Crystalium wrote on 23.11.2009 at 22:51

320. @ Crystalium
     
     "Tuomas visited his old school. This the university's ad (Tuomas' part somewhere after middle):
     
     http://cbu.fi/gallery/index.html"
     
     Love Tuomas's wool hat and curly hair. Wish I had too. :]

     Vetehinen wrote on 23.11.2009 at 22:55

321. I have a feeling that Anette has better things to do than babysit the members of a band that she doesn't even care that much about, apparently.
     
     You know, having nothing to do and drinking every day out of boredom is one way how alcoholism starts, it's just that people don't like it when you make "drama" out of such a "harmless" thing as alcoholism ... like - what's the big deal? Who cares about those drunk driving victims or destroyed families?
     
     Marco is known to often be really shit-faced, BTW. And in his case, since he can obviously swallow a real lot of booze without it having notable effect on his stage performance (another tell-tale sign of alcoholism), when he is that shit-faced you know he must have REALLY drunk a lot ...
     
     Alcoholism runs rampant in the metal scene. Rob Halford and Yngwie Malmsteen have stopped playing it down - or in your sense, created a big fat "drama" about it. I'd love seeing you telling them in their face that they are drama queens for making such a big deal about alcoholism.

     Almagest wrote on 24.11.2009 at 04:20

322. @Crystalium
     
     "How did it go...? Oh, yes: lol(lipop). x) "
     
     It is a fact that alchohol damages brain and organism, and if person drinks a lot and on regular terms and within long time than brain and organism are got damaged really hard :) So it was just stating the obvious fact. Alchoholism is like long-long-long suicide :)
     
     "Anette is there. So don't worry. ;)"
     
     Well, hardly she would influence Marco or others in band who drink a lot, to stop drinking alchohol in such proportions :) Hope she wouldn't start drinking herself like they do, that would be not very funny :)
     

     Tip-top wrote on 26.11.2009 at 18:59

323. Go, Tuomas! I believe in you!
     
     The things that have been revealed about the next album are very promising. Twist, bagpipes etc... Two years is a loong time but I'm sure the album will be worth it. I just have to find other things to do... gaming, for example. :)

     Raitoningu wrote on 26.11.2009 at 23:38

324. Kiros said:
     
     "I find it very funny that so called "haters" don't want to believe anything good said about Nightwish on nowadays. They want to create drama from every little thing. :'D"
     
     That wasn't exactly original, but let's give him Brownie points for trying.
     
     As I like to say - honni soit qui mal y pense - and we so-called "haters" are big "honnis" (rogues) because we always think bad about it. But regarding certain subjects, experience simply tells us that being a suspicious "honni" is justified. Remember how TheSeer predicted some things by keeping exactly that maxim/motto in mind? =)

     Almagest wrote on 28.11.2009 at 03:58

325. Geez, a lot of the comments here are so anti-Nightwish, what the heck?! And for those saying that DPP was popish in any way, have you ever heard pop music?, if Nightwish is pop, then Hannah Montana is metal, imo DPP was their heaviest (listen to Master Passion Greed, especially the beginning).
     It's great that Anette is working on a solo album, and I can't wait for the new Nightwish to come out.
     I'm a fan of Nightwish as a whole, being both era's, they are an EPIC band and always will be!

     GhostOpera29 wrote on 29.11.2009 at 18:18

326. @ GhostOpera29
     
     Yep, some songs in DPP might have poppish parts, like Amaranth's chorus. But the wholeness of the album is metal, in my opinion.
     
     Wanna hear some pop? Here we go! :D
     
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH1xmKSAwbI
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUI8Wp_bof0
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgjUb4xV5A4

     Crystalium wrote on 29.11.2009 at 20:23

327. [quote] Ohh please...men are famous for pissing on the street. Every man I know has done it at least once. I find it disgusting, but men find it ok. I think he was only trying to mean that he cant do something like that, without having pictures of him taken, which must be really boring. The poor man cannot say one simple phrase without having the media and people analyzing every syllable [/quote]
     
     ROFL , yeah people take everything literarly. Now a discussion about how immoral is to take a piss in public!
     If I was a man I'd piss in a desert street if I had to .
     It's so annoying when you drink alcohol , you need to pee and you don't find a toilet.
     He didn't mean it literarly of course , it's a way to say that he has to be careful with what he says and does because media comment everything.

     Evol wrote on 13.01.2010 at 00:07

328. [quote] Agreed about the copycat comment. First Tarja comes out as a Hans Zimmer fan, etc., now Tuomas copies Tarja with the scuba-diving hobby? They have FAR too many things in common! You've got to wonder what would happen if they met scuba-diving or something ... underwater fight, James Bond style? [/quote]
     
     LOL. Honestly ...they are made for each other, Marcelo should step aside. ROFL
     I'm jocking of course...
     
     It's not Tuomas copying Tarja, they both have this hobby. If you read the NW book you'll see a picture of Tuomas (taken in 2003 or something) with the wetsuit and he talks about scuba-diving in 2002. I remember an interview right before the split when he said he was going to dive in Thailand and Tarja said "Really? Me too" . LOL what if they met underwater?
     Some people criticize Tarja for copying Tuomas with her soundtrack/Hans Zimmer influences, I think it's a bullshit. She genuinely likes this music. It would be interesting to know if Tuomas "contaged" her or it was just a coincidence .
     
     It's true that Tuomas let press inside his parents house, but that were arranged interviews and arranged documentaries (many artists and musicians do them) . Even Gaahl invited some norwegian journalists at his home for a documentary on black metal.
     He knew what he wanted to show and when he wanted to show. It's different from finding journalists hiding in the bushes in front of your door spying you and reporting who you are seeing or taking pictures of your house. :)
     
     What he said about that "joke" is completely stupid. They are so stupid to even think to such stupidities.

     Evol wrote on 13.01.2010 at 00:26

329. "@JesseFinn
     
     Privacy? What dicussion of privacy relating to Tuomas can be seriously taken after such picture of him (and some of the band, btw) were made to public knowledge?!
     
     http://uploadpicturesonline.com/viewer.php?file=ddp9biclgdpdlfbbkok6.jpg "
     
     @Wilska. Man, have you watched some blog or page of some fiinnish (or non finnish) metal band? It's easy to find some stupid, naked picture. It doesn't mean you can invade their house whenever you want.

     Evol wrote on 13.01.2010 at 00:50

330. "Also, Tuomas praised Tarja for always getting his intention and singing with so much passion and emotion, which those "Tuomas fans" claim she lacks."
     
     @Almagest +1
     

     Evol wrote on 13.01.2010 at 01:43

331. when the album will be released
     

     nash wrote on 28.01.2010 at 15:39

332. is the new album will be on 2011 or at the end of 2010 and it will have more than 14 songs
     
     and METAL FROM FINLAND do you have the cover for this new album
     

     MFF Staff: Cover for the forthcoming NW album that they haven't even started recording yet? No we don't.
     
     Tero
     MFF

     nash wrote on 28.01.2010 at 15:42