NIGHTWISH: X-mas present - Lokikirja-box that contains all their albums

02.10.2009

NIGHTWISH will release Lokikirja-box on November. It will contain all their albums and with tha box comes a nice booklet with pictures and lyrics.

Lokikirja will be released on November 11th so it's available nicely on time for Christmas. Lokikirja-box contains the following albums: Angels Fall First, Oceanborn, Wishmaster, Over The Hills And Far Away, Century Child, Bless The Child - The Rarities, Once and Dark Passion Play.

Dark Passion Play that was release couple of years ago has sold already quadruple platinum, almost 130 000 albums. After the release they started their world-tour that contained almost 200 shows around the world. Their last show was in sold-out Hartwall Arena, Helsinki, Finland on september 19th.

Nightwish will return in 2011 with a new album.

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Wow! No comments yet! Well,i'll be the first one then! He-he!My only wish is that Tarja will get her share from that rerelease,'cause,as we all know,without her they would never be so famous and well-known!

Milka wrote on 02.10.2009 at 16:26
it's pretty good :D i hope it is released in germany :)

Bassie wrote on 02.10.2009 at 16:32
I want there to be one of these for Bolt Thrower. Or maybe a huuuuuge box comprising classic hard to find Finnish Death Metal from the early '90s...would be the most essential purchase on the market for me...

Jon wrote on 02.10.2009 at 17:48
"Nightwish will return in 2011 with a new album" Oh I only wish it would be with a new singer.

C'mon Tuomas wake up and fire that self centered, smug, egocentric, non-talented, fat, lame, non-metal, annoying, dumb "singer". And hire a singer that really deserves it.

Ragnarok wrote on 02.10.2009 at 18:43
Ooooh, this will be very tempting indeed!

Incidentally, Tero, is the forum down right now? I cannot access it at all!

CanuckFan wrote on 02.10.2009 at 19:24
I also hope that Tarja gets a cut but Nightwish and Tarja would not be so famous without each other and i hope this gets released in the US.

Juan wrote on 02.10.2009 at 19:34
I for one won´t buy it. I allready have their best album. DARK PASSION PLAY!. The rest is crap thanks to Tarja.

Wrathchild wrote on 02.10.2009 at 20:10
they've forgotten to carve 'Ocean Soul' on the tiller......

TT wrote on 02.10.2009 at 20:21
Wratchild you....ah nevermind

Johny wrote on 02.10.2009 at 20:47
Wow... are we not over this yet? Because it's been a couple of years now. Move on.

Linza wrote on 02.10.2009 at 22:29
Wrathchild, you're so predictably boring, just like Anette...

TT wrote on 03.10.2009 at 00:10
tt "you´re so predictably boring". And you´re not?

Wrathchild wrote on 03.10.2009 at 00:22
Nice. To bad I allready have all their albums. Tarja needs to have her part of it. Otherwise they are not allowed to release it.

Still feel sad though that I've bought DPP in the beginning. There is a site here where you can buy it from others for less then 2 euro, and then I mean the Limited 2CD edition.. There are at least 50 people who are still hoping that someone is willing to buy it xD. (If it wasn't for MPG and The Islander mine would be there too.)

Erica wrote on 03.10.2009 at 01:38
@Milka

"...cause as we all know, without her they would never be so famous..."...sorry but I really don't agree because you forget Tuomas, Marco, Jukka and Emppu...and we all know that without those guys nobody knows Tarja...even Anette now...Nightwish is a band and all 5 members of the band make it big...Don't forget it!

Jimmie wrote on 03.10.2009 at 01:39
@Ragnarok

You have right to express what you think about everything but if Tuomas do like you wish and you start to like NW again how about those other few million people with their opinions what they like or wish!!!You know that they don't make music only to you and they can never please 100% of people so do you think that Tuomas gonna do what you wish...Don't answer because we all know the answer!

Jimmie wrote on 03.10.2009 at 02:00
Does anyone know if the NW guys will work on side projects now that the tour is over. I know Anette's working on her solo album
(god help us all when that hits shelves), but I'm wondering about Brother Firetribe, for my pain, and Northern Kings. I've heard rumors about Firetribe and NK doing a new album for next year, but nothing more, while ...fmp has remained dormant for who knows how long. So does anyone know any news about these bands?

Jeremy wrote on 03.10.2009 at 03:14
i hope it is released in Brazil :)

Mateus wrote on 03.10.2009 at 04:15
@ Jeremy: NK will have a new album in 2010, Tarot wil have a new album in 2010 (YAY!!, 25 years or something after they released their first album ^^), I've red somewhere that BF will also be working on a new album and Tuomas has a new project. Something he doesn't wants to talk about yet. FMP is, unfortunately, dead or something. Jukka has off course his company.
Princess has her new solo album. Dunno if she's going to do something else as well. I think not. But if she does, I won't buy, listen or be even interested in it. So I don't know about her.

Sorcha wrote on 03.10.2009 at 04:24
@Jimmie

"how about those other few million people with their opinions what they like or wish".

Anette has only done 1 album with NW, so if NW survived when they fired Tarja, absolutely nothing is gonna happen to the band if Tuomas gets rid of "Pms Nettie".

Most of Nightwish fans would be happy, only those "Pms Nettie die hards" would be upset. But until that day comes Im just gonna keep on praying to the metal gods for a light in the end of the tunnel.

Oh and Wrathchild you are right about one thing DPP is an amazing album (Not thanks to "Pms Nettie" shes just a wanna be hired singer), but if you think that DPP is better than Oceanborn or Once you are just insane.

Ragnarok wrote on 03.10.2009 at 05:52
This actually sounds really great. I'd get it but I had already gone out and bout the albums separately a while back. It would definitely be a nice present otherwise, though.

@ Jeremy: According to an interview with Tuomas - Anette is going to be doing work on her solo project as well as possible appearances on other band's albums. Emppu will be making a new album with Brother Firetribe. Marco will be going into the studio with Tarot (Tuomas speculates that he will have about 20 side projects going on at once). Tuomas will be going to Australia and keeping a low profile from the media. He didn't say anything about Jukka when the interviewer asked about him, though... Just commented on how great it is to have him in the band. No word about FMP either which is a shame. I'd like to hear more from them.

Tainted~ wrote on 03.10.2009 at 08:40
I see that TuomAss wants to make more money out of Tarja's talent. Of course I wouldn't buy that box for a very simple reason: I already have those albums, and the box contains a lethal virus called "Dark Fashion Shit". So no, that box is to me as tempting as eating nails, I don't know if I'm clear... XD
And yeah, Tarja obviously has to receive her part of the money that Fartwish members are expecting to earn from this boring releasing.

Who? wrote on 03.10.2009 at 09:38
Yeah, something may come out, from Brother Firetribe. And I'm quite sure Marco will work with Tarot, and they'll eventually release a new album, while NW is on hold.

Can't wait for Anette's album, as well. If only for the amusement, to see the "worldwide negative reviews", and the happy little trolls, spitting venom on it. :-P

DeadAndGone wrote on 03.10.2009 at 09:56
Marcos Tarot:

Latest News
02.10.2009: TAROT TO PLAY IN PROGPOWER USA XI
Tarot will make its first ever visit on American soil on 11th September 2010 @ ProgPower USA XI, Atlanta!

Frame wrote on 03.10.2009 at 10:00
Older Brother Firetribe info:

NEWS
15.08.2009 - DVD release postponed...
Label releases Live DVD same time in USA so, release is postponed to january 2010. Awesome shit comin up so, hang on there...

Frame wrote on 03.10.2009 at 10:05
2Jeremy: I guess there will be new Firetribe and NKings releases, maybe even more sideprojects, but I don't think For My Pain will be part of it. Throughout the years I actually learned to not wait for a new album of this awesome band, cause it seems it will never come...

CrusT wrote on 03.10.2009 at 10:27
Hmmm that would be interesting if we didn't have all the albums already. But every Nightwish fan does, so that is another box-set to get our money out of the pocket one last time before the next release in 2011. Such commercial attitude! But then again Nightwish is nothing about money...(Oh yes it's the company's decision not Tuomas' :P -either way he agreed.) And the same case was with "Made in Hong-Kong". It was a worthless release with nothing special at all.(Didn't buy it of course!)
Also I don't like that the box-set is created now with only one album with "Princess".It would be better if it had more from her participation in the band or if it didn't include DPP at all.
Anyway, I hope that whoever gets his hands on the box-set to enjoy it as much as possible!! :)
Can anyone tell me what "Lokikirja" means? Tero, would you mind?

EgoSelfishPrimaDonna wrote on 03.10.2009 at 11:48
Ragnarök. The music on Oceanborn and Once is incredible. But there´s a flaw. Tarja. She can´t pronounce english words, she can´t handle a fast beat. To put it simple, she don´t belong in metal. Singing slower songs in finnish maybe. Nah, she´s even mediocre at that. Anette btw. She´s been in a ballet acedemy. Maybe she can bring in some ballet on the metalscene. Tarja, operametal, Anette balletmetal. Now, how´s that?

Wrathchild wrote on 03.10.2009 at 14:13
Egoselfishprimadonna. "Lokkikirja" meens logbook.

Wrathchild wrote on 03.10.2009 at 14:25
Tuomas didn't "agreed". Record labels doesn't need permission from the artist, everytime they release a compilation, boxset, best-of and whatnot. They own this material, by contract. He may not be aware at all, about this release.

DeadAndGone wrote on 03.10.2009 at 14:29
?????Logbook..googel...I hope its right :-)

celisajan wrote on 03.10.2009 at 16:32
So re-release of all albums together? Again just to take away money ,cause people who needed the albums already bought them! Geez, how stupid.

Stanley wrote on 03.10.2009 at 19:43
@Ragnarok

Sorry again but I don't agree. DPP album is the best selling NW album so far so there must be people who still enjoy their music even you don't like it.It's pointless to argue wich album is "better" because it's always matter of own taste!
"Most of NW fans..."???They lost fans but they also get new fans too so who are these "most of fans" and can you tell me how many of these few million people are these "most of fans"...I think you can't and you can talk only by yourself.
I think NW gonna do what ever they want.Some people gonna like (accept) it and some don't but don't worry there are so much different music in the world for you to choose!

Jimmie wrote on 03.10.2009 at 20:10
Jon, I agree about box with Finnish Death Metal from the early '90! It would be much more interesting and useful than just boring re-release of all NW albums :)

Milka, yep, you are partly right cause it was due to Turunen's voice that they went for a more powerful sound, to match her strong voice. Before that NW was supposed to be just acoustic project, nothing more:)
Well, Tarja will get her cut also from this re-releae as she sings on 7 of re-released albums ;)

" she can´t handle a fast beat. To put it simple, she don´t belong in metal. Anette btw. She´s been in a ballet acedemy. Maybe she can bring in some ballet on the metalscene. "

Well, I saw NW for the first time live with Anette and she isn't able to handle fast beat, she just screames or does some strange sounds with high notes, due to that her pronouncing of Enlgish words is also quite strange, not proper. And as her voice is not strong enough as it turned out to be, she doesn't belong in metal as well. And maybe she was in ballet acedemy but her dancing on stage was very bad, this academy didn't teach her anything as it seems. Ballet on metal and rock scene was already brought by Within Temptation during one of their gigs, with ballerine dancing during one of their songs, it was All I need I think, I saw it on youtube.

Ursula wrote on 03.10.2009 at 20:34
@Wrathchild

"she don´t belong in metal" thats got to be one of the most stupid things Ive ever heard, Tarja is the metal goddess.

"Tarja, operametal, Anette balletmetal" we all know classical music is metal ancestor, and Tarja is not the only singer in that genre. And balletmetal, well... I would rather blow my brains out before that day comes. C'mon Wrathchild realize that "PMS Nettie" is only a mediocre singer, shes not special in any way. Oh and shes getting old so in a little bit shes not gonna be "PMS Nettie" she will be "Menopause Nettie" hehehehe

Ragnarök wrote on 03.10.2009 at 21:21
Oh and check her profile picture on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anette_Olzon

She looks like an old witch or something

Ragnarök wrote on 03.10.2009 at 21:25
"It's pointless to argue wich album is "better" because it's always matter of own taste! "

So Oceanborn is worst album in comparison with DPP?! Lol More radio friendly and more mainstream stuff rules after all!

"They lost fans but they also get new fans too so who are these "most of fans" and can you tell me how many of these few million people are these "most of fans"...I think you can't and you can talk only by yourself. "

So if they fire the current chick they'll loose some fans, but will get new ones. :) Not big deal. So hardly most fans would be upset if they fire Olzon.

Ted wrote on 03.10.2009 at 21:33
Boring re-release just to make money -everybody already have those albums.

Wilska wrote on 03.10.2009 at 21:34
Ursula - glad to see someone agrees...it's way too hard to find all that crusty old stuff from back in the day!

And for anyone wondering, For My Pain are officially on hold, but Tuomas is no longer a part of the group anyway. In fact he left after recording their debut stating he didn't want to do concerts or something. The remaining members of the group are busy, about three of them are from Eternal Tears of Sorrow which reformed since then and the singer has his own band now, so it is unlikely we will hear anything more from them. I'd much rather have EToS back together though >:D

Jon wrote on 03.10.2009 at 22:19
Those people have to feed their families and assure their retirement. If they want to make money, it's their right! If you

If you dont agree, don't buy : easy seems again not to be the mastword of some!
@who? Did you find those wordplays by yourself? Wow! Fartwish is stunning....almost laughed!
I could buy "every" oh so lame compilation where stuff from Oceanborn is! This ia THE record.
Of course some of you friends won't BUY this is because you already did download for free and illegaly the albums featured on it!

OceanWithin wrote on 03.10.2009 at 23:51
@wrathchild

"she can´t handle a fast beat. "

Yes,because singing songs like Gethsemane or Stargazers flawlesly shows exactly that.

"to put it simple, she don´t belong in metal"

If you actually had any idea about metal and especially symphonic metal you would know that "operametal" is exactly the suitable vocal type for symphonic metal.
Not "yeeiiaaiiaaaaa".

But you obviously know nothing about symphonic metal,since you said that "whoever brings the night" is the best piece in DPP and that DPP is NW's best album.

I'm pretty sure you also believe that NW is the best (and the first) symphonic metal band and that singers like Lori or Floor count nothing against Anette.

"She´s been in a ballet acedemy."

And she was so bad and untalented she dropped out.

"The rest is crap thanks to Tarja."

What's weird with you nW fans,is that you always see things the way it suits you.

When you say that the first albums were successful,it's because of Tuomas and rest of the guys.
When you say they suck,it's because of Tarja.

So what are they after all?

And strange as it is,the whole planet learned them from albums with Tarja.So,as i suggested in another topic,if you want to find a way to insult Tarja,do it as we do with Anette:with FACTS,not personal opinion.
Obviously we don't care that you think that their first works are crap because of Tarja,and we obviously don't care to see your inability to compose a serious argument and your last resort is using different meanings of a word to insilt Tarja(headbanging) but also Marco or Tuomas in that way.

Legeon wrote on 03.10.2009 at 23:52
Thanks to everyone for answering the Q's on the side projects. I absolutely love Northern Kings. They're a band that finally got the "metal cover" concept right. Can't wait to hear what they have in store for 2010.

I think that Jimmie made an interesting point about how DPP made a lot of new NW fans as well as losing a lot of old ones. I would give the box set as a gift to someone that has heard DPP but has never heard any of the previous albums, and trust me, there are a lot of those people.

There's something else I want to ask. I have heard that a lot of people think that NW sold out when they released Once. These fans see Once as NW pandering to the masses by using an orchestra. Now, maybe this is because I live in America, the cultural dynamo that has given us such wonders as the Pussycat Dolls and Lady Gaga, but I never got the memo that adding an orchestra to metal would qualify as "selling out." All the members of the band said that they always wanted to work with a full orchestra but never had the money. With Once, they finally got the budget -- and it was big -- and they fulfilled their dream. I thought Wishmaster and CC were great albums, but they didn't WOW me the way Oceanborn did. Once, on the other hand, WOWed me to eternity.

I am a big fan of prog metal because they are the most open-minded fans when it comes to metal. I really don't like how metalheads tend to hate anything from a band that even slightly deviates from previous albums. True artists always take risks and experiment with new ideas. Take Queensryche, for example. They are grateful for the commendations they get for Operation: Mindcrime, but they refused to let their work be defined by it. When they finally caved in to fan pressure and released Mindcrime 2, it was a disaster. For all of Tuomas' flaws, I was really impressed when he said that a band should never be tied down by its name. In fact, wouldn't repeating the same album over and over be just as much selling out as releasing a Black Album? In that case, you're just releasing what your fans will like and what you know will get you money. The best artists take gambles and experiment, even if it blows up in their face.

Jeremy wrote on 04.10.2009 at 00:33
@Ted

Did I say "Oceanborn is a worst album comparison with DPP"...don't put words to my mouth and don't reply to me if you can't read and understand my comment.What you feel about those albums is your problem and I'm not interested about that at all!
Other part of your comment is so...I don't care but even they choose any other singer there will be other "Ted" writing same old story again,again,again and same way they will lost fans and get new fans....so I think this is pointless...find something more interesting to listen!

Jimmie wrote on 04.10.2009 at 01:19
@Jimmie

That an album sells a lot of copies doesent mean that is a musical masterpiece. Or you are gonna tell me that Britnery Spears just because she sells a lot of copies, she makes good music... I dont think so. So ask any music critic ¿What Nightwish album is the best one?. Once or Oceanborn by far. Im not saying that DPP is bad, im only saying that its not the best one.

Oh and dont forget to read my response to Wrathchild that surely is going to put a smile on you face.

Ragnarok wrote on 04.10.2009 at 06:56
Jon wrote on 03.10.2009 at 22:19:
"For My Pain are officially on hold, but Tuomas is no longer a part of the group anyway. In fact he left after recording their debut stating he didn't want to do concerts or something"

No, that's not true. He recorded keyboards also for the Killing Romance single from 2004, not only for their debut and the reason why he didn't participate in any of their 2 live shows (2004 and 2005) is probably because he was on the world tour with Nightwish. In fact, in the beginning of 2006 I read an interview with him, stating that he also composed a song or two for the second FMP album. So he never left the band. But I think they're on hold because of lack of interest of all the members...everybody's doing their own things...

CrusT wrote on 04.10.2009 at 11:28
"If they want to make money, it's their right! If you"

Of course they can! If they are only about money,money, cash,cash :) But seriously re-releasing all albums which were already re-released before several times through years!! That's a joke!

Simone wrote on 04.10.2009 at 11:29
Jeremy´s the only one with brains here. Operation Mindcrime is a masterpiece. Never paint Mona Lisa twice. That´s why Nightwish chose a completly different singer compered to Tarja. Not a worse one but a different one.

Wrathchild wrote on 04.10.2009 at 11:35
"What you feel about those albums is your problem and I'm not interested about that at all!
Other part of your comment is so...I don't care but even they choose any other singer there will be other "Ted" writing same old story again,again,again and same way they will lost fans and get new fans....so I think this is pointless...find something more interesting to listen!"

Jimmie, you implied that Oceanborn can be found worse than DPP. So I didn't put anything to your mouth, you said all yourself. And what you feel about DPP is your problem and I'm not interested about that as well .
And if they'll get rid of Olzon, there will be changing in fan base, obviously, so it is not pointless according to you, it is just life :D I do not think that so many people would be upset in that case, cause they are too blind NW followers and as long Tuomas aka. their God swould say he wants it that they, they would pee with joy over his choice. Just as seen now.

Ted wrote on 04.10.2009 at 11:36
Jeremy, it is funny how you concentrated only on orchestra, lol The problem of "selling out" is not that they added orchestra to their recording. NW already did in CC album. And Therion does that a lot.The problem that music began to turn into more mainstream, simple media friendly tunes, with cheesy lyrics, more simple vocals which eneded on weak pop-like vocals and etc. It began to fit more general level of mainstream music, which is sold out better, just look at those Evanescence or Lacuna Coil.So it is obvious why you got "wowed" by Once or DPP, they fit more to general american-like music you are accustomed to listen. But that is not a decent sign :) Well, maybe for Americans, I do not know, it is easier for them to listen to and like this kind of music.

"I was really impressed when he said that a band should never be tied down by its name. In fact, wouldn't repeating the same album over and over be just as much selling out as releasing a Black Album? "

Actually folk-rock band called Blackmore's Nights is repeating their albums over and over again, the difference is not huge between them, but hardly they could be called "sold outs" in that way ;)

Steve wrote on 04.10.2009 at 11:49
Hey, I'm from US and the first NW album I bought was DPP. I thought it to be great. But then I bought other NW albums and understand now that DPP is just not that good or interesting, although it has orchestra and stuff, but it is more averaged. And the live performances of NW remind me Evanescence a lot. I do not know how it was before as I saw NW for the first time only at DPP tour.

Michael wrote on 04.10.2009 at 11:55
It is X-mas present more for NW, just to grab more money! All those albums have dozens of re-releases already! Maybe Tuomas wants a golden potty for his X-mas gift! With "Oceansoul" name on it!

Zelda wrote on 04.10.2009 at 12:09
Ragnarok, mate, according to new nw fans opera-like voices or classically-trained singers do not belong in metal, only weak poppy and screamy voices belong!

Her photo on profile is lovely. She looks like a scarecrow from the field!
Do you like this photo as well, she is adorable here:
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6471/x4f7d624c.jpg

The Riddler wrote on 04.10.2009 at 12:16
"That´s why Nightwish chose a completly different singer compered to Tarja. Not a worse one but a different one."

Ha,ha,ha, completely different singer compared to Tarja is Anneke, she is different but great one. Olzon is completely different but worse singer! That's the whole point.

Scorpion flower wrote on 04.10.2009 at 12:31
@The Riddler

"according to new nw fans opera-like voices or classically-trained singers do not belong in metal, only weak poppy and screamy voices belong"
I Hate those new Nighttwish fans. Ive have been a Nw fan since the very begining, and I hate those pop lovers that think that Nighwish is what it is thanks to that talentless "Menopause Nettie". Ive bet all those "new nightwish fans" listen to Miley Cyrus too. Nightwish is what it is, thanks to the fact that the line up used to be composed of first class musicians:

Tuomas: The Mastermind, an excelent composer, he is Nightwish.
Marco: An awsome bass player and vocalist, one of the most respected musicians in finland.
Jukka: One of the greatest drumers Ive heard.
Emppu: The short one is crazy, founding member of Nightwish, a lot of the music made is thanks to him.
Tarja: A professional singer, "the voice of Finland", her style gave the metal music something awsome.

And now the line up is: Professional musicians and one crappy, lame, mediocre singer (Just remember that before her time with Nightwish she was NOTHING, all of the music of DPP was already composed and recorded before she was even chosen, they only said to her: "These are the songs, sing them like this" she had nothing to do with any of the album's production, not even a note or a word.)

Oh about the photo, lovely in deed, except she loooks fat, poorely dressed, and her face looks like it is falling from her skull.

Ragnarök wrote on 04.10.2009 at 15:13
Ragnarök, mate, you know I just thought that Diva started in NW when they all were totally not famous, only beginners, she started from scratch as well as other band members. So she walked the whole path with the group in becoming famous :) And Princess joined already very famous band and got easy fame for nothing ;)

The Riddler wrote on 04.10.2009 at 16:26
CrusT - that I didn't know! I do know the Killing Romance single, it raised my hopes for another album! Well, there is some hope we'll see something from them then but unfortunately each members' main projects are far more successful these days, apart from possibly Reflexion. :D

Jon wrote on 04.10.2009 at 16:35
@Ragnarok

Read what I wrote and use your brains!!!Did I say it's a masterpiece...did I...can't you read.I only say the fact that DPP album is the best selling album so far and nothing else so there must be people who still like the band...is this so hard to understand!What ever you or music critic says has nothing to do in this case because it's matter of own taste and nothing else!
I think also that this "Britney Spears" is very childish...so we better stop this conversation if you can't respect other people and music.I don't like nasty people!

Jimmie wrote on 05.10.2009 at 01:30
@Ted

So you can't read and understand what other people write here.Can you show me the text where I implied that "Oceanborn can be found worse than DPP"?Can you also show me the text where I tell "what I feel about DPP"?Who's comments are you reading and how old are you because there is any sense what you write to me!

Jimmie wrote on 05.10.2009 at 01:50
Should I now buy this box set or not? Say something! We are turning in circles heres.

OceanWithin wrote on 05.10.2009 at 09:39
I truly do not understand why you are so nasty to Princess, guys.
She is what she is, but thanks to her we could read stuff like this one:
"Then I bought some nice teas and pills in the health store to help me survive my bad PMS every month...grrr...I hate the hormones!"

(http://anette-olzon.blogspot.com/2009/09/back-home.html)

I would say that all feminists of the world are really happy to read this - metal band... well, band pretending it IS a metal one,

discusssing their PMS??? What a miracle!

Metal was for a long time considered to be a MALE teritory... and now we could see those guys discovering their female side...!

Can not wait when Maestro will discover HIS female side, too...
though, it would be a bit strange because he did not discover his male side yet...

But this is certainly worth mentioning!!!

mermaid wrote on 05.10.2009 at 10:01
New Princess look:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_93IuP2jawcc/SshfqbgW9jI/AAAAAAAABaE/nkKUfXkShzI/s1600-h/200910031702.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_93IuP2jawcc/SshfqidcjeI/AAAAAAAABaM/RIXOWIk3SYA/s1600-h/200910031703.jpg

and sexy Princess
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_93IuP2jawcc/SsYeQR3pKWI/AAAAAAAABZ8/i3h_YlyhQNY/s1600-h/anette+black+glasses.jpg

Enjoy!!

mermaid wrote on 05.10.2009 at 10:04
Tero,
really, does not this deserve to be a NEWS here???
It is quite surprising, but it is about NW AND music!!
DEB:
Monday, 5 October 2009
Dark Silk

On saturday I am going to see a premiere of a dance show that uses Nightwish music from our album, Dark Passion Play in it and I am excited;=) Its in Malmö Opera house and the dance group are led by finnish dance master Jorma Uotinen. Tuomas wished he could be there but he is out travelling so he can´t come.

The site writes this about the show: (freely translated by me;=)

BLACK SILK

See Skånes Dansteater in this autumns mightiest dance experience at Malmö Opera! The big stage drowned in hundreds of asian lights, seventeen dancers and Malmö Opera orchestra and choir in metal interpretation.

One of Swedens hottest newcomers- Pontus Lidberg - originally created Heart of Silk for the Vietnamese National Opera and Ballet in a Sida sponsored co-operation with Norrlandsoperan. Now it is taken to Malmö and four of the vietnamesian dancers from the original cast meets Skånes Dansteaters ensamble. It is a mesmerizingly beautiful and musical piece to Bachs Brandenburg concert no 4.

After the break the finnish dance master, Jorma Uotinen, bids a premiere of his piece Black Water. Skånes Dansteater rests safely in the hands of Jorma, who e.g have been managing director of the finnish National Ballet during 10 years. To the performance there has also been created a totally new music piece. Jonas Nydensjö has re-made the finnish metal group Nightwish album Dark Passion Play to a symphonic piece that are performed by Malmö Opera orchestra and the female singers from the Opera choir.

Here´s the original text and website for more info;=)
Posted by Anette Olzon at 10:30

mermaid wrote on 05.10.2009 at 12:22
she has ugly hands as if she has been working in coal mine earlier. very nice protrusion of the eyeballs.

Isabell wrote on 05.10.2009 at 12:36
Second Hatrarena outfit of Princess:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRCJ-WVJGWE&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTXyfuMV2qg&feature=related

mermaid wrote on 05.10.2009 at 12:59
And here is the third outfit of princess from Hartwall arena:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ltu1j8MmkT8

mermaid wrote on 05.10.2009 at 13:22
Still addict to her blog, heuh Mermaid?? Can't live without it...
We sure don't mind here around getting flooded by copypastes...it kinda centralizes the important stuff and heavy social news on one single site.

Isabell, YES I noticed that one too, her hands are really masculine! Just missing the link to the Nightwish box set but I'll find...promissed!

OceanWithin wrote on 05.10.2009 at 13:31
@Jimmie

"I only say the fact that DPP album is the best selling album so far and nothing else so there must be people who still like the band"

Yeah people still like the band, the problem is that egocentric, narcisist bitch. I really doubt that she was the best one from the 2000 singers that auditioned for Nightwish. Honestly I didnt hated miss Olzon the minute she be became the lead singer. Its her recent attitude towards the metal music, her position in the band, and childish bullshit that made me hate her.

"Swedish vocalist and singer for the band Nightwish" (From her blog) I think that says it all.

"it's matter of own taste and nothing else!"

Yeah of curse its matter of taste, but i dont know if you remember that all this debate began cuz that Wratchild guy dare to say that Nightwish was crap before Anette, and Once or Oceanborn suck. There is the difference between ignorance and stupidity and some guys in ths forum seemed to have lost the ability to recognize one from the other.

Ragnarök wrote on 05.10.2009 at 18:11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gNr6MUcdxI&feature=related

Is this really Anette???
Sounds nice!

celisajan wrote on 05.10.2009 at 18:45
tarja will reciceve her share of the proceeds, the guys aren't greedy. I think it's great that they are combinding all the albums into one box.

Missay wrote on 06.10.2009 at 00:34
@Ragnarok

Members of NW choosed the new singer NOT WE so what me ,you or other people thinking about that is not relevant because after all NW do what they think is best for their music even some people don't like it.Any singer can please 100% of people so what's the point to "cry" here about that all the time.The fact is that you like or not like the artist and there are not any other choice and you have also freedom to listen what ever you like.This is the reason why I recommended to find something more interesting music if you don't like her music or even her personality!This is simply music not end of the world so this "hate thing" goes over my head!

I don't see any problem about this "Swedish vocalist and singer for the band NW" because she is proud of her nationality same way like Finnish people are at the same type of cases.

These "Anette sucks" or "Tarja sucks" comments are so stupid and even "Wratchild" uses these provoke comments you better watch also to the mirror and read what kind of language you have used about Anette...this is one example of yours:"narcissist bitch"....maybe you understand my point!

In the end...I like old and new Nightwish so I don't have any problem about that.I hope that people enjoy the music what they like and stop writing "bull shit" here!

PS.My personal favorite (only my opinion) NW albums are "Once" and of course "DPP"!

Jimmie wrote on 06.10.2009 at 01:16
I heard Olzen's song with The Rasmus that celisajan posted. Anette really impressed me with that song. Then I found this Brother Firetribe song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FInL-tWtzOM

This song also has Olzen guest voice. She's really good here too! The problem isn't her voice, it's that the music doesn't suit her. These two songs are better for her voice. If her solo album was similar to the stuff Firetribe does, I would totally buy it.

Jeremy wrote on 06.10.2009 at 05:14
espero que tambien lo saquen en mexico

valeria wrote on 06.10.2009 at 06:05
@Ragnaröck: "Once" is surely a masterpiece, a sixtine chapel of metal music! You got it!
Maybe we should simply burn those people who don't understand that!

OceanWithin wrote on 06.10.2009 at 09:58
Jeremy,

ANYBODY will sing the Rasmus song at least as good as she did - it is so simple song, that even you will be manage, I am certain of that.

No surprise that Rasmus did not put this on their CD.

If you must admire Princess, check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRbv4O65vBo

and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV6tQgYtLZ0&NR=1
_______________________
Both Pain. The first one with the video as well, and I would say that they really had to be very firm with Princess - she is PROPERLY dressed in this one.

Actually, in both songs she does what she can do best - background vocals...

mermaid wrote on 06.10.2009 at 10:46
Again, I'm scarred but I agreed to mermaid on the Rasmus thing - subunderstanding that rasmus is not that "good" actually and mainly designed for brainless MTV douchebags consumers.
Since I like your comments, I suppose that you can build up on this comment here replacing Rasmus by NNW. So please, do yourself a favor.
I want to read more from Ragnarök and Who? - please free your mind and flood me.

OceanWithin wrote on 06.10.2009 at 13:22
"Can you show me the text where I implied that "Oceanborn can be found worse than DPP"?Can you also show me the text where I tell "what I feel about DPP"?Who's comments are you reading and how old are you because there is any sense what you write to me!"

You said that it depends on taste-the opinion about album, so thus Oceanborn could be found worse than DPP according just to somebody's taste. But you forgot to mention that taste can sometimes be very bad ;) And I see how desperately you try to protect the current NW so it is clear how you feel about DPP and stuff :) Just another fan-under-van, lol

Ted wrote on 06.10.2009 at 16:48
"Can you show me the text where I implied that "Oceanborn can be found worse than DPP"?Can you also show me the text where I tell "what I feel about DPP"?Who's comments are you reading and how old are you because there is any sense what you write to me!"

You said that it all depends on opinion-opinion about the album in this case, so according to somebody's opinion Oceanborn can easily be found worse than DPP . But you forgot to mention that taste can be very bad sometimes-that's why a lot of people out there listen to mainstream pop crap :) And I saw how you called DPP one of your fav album so it is very clear how you feel about it.

And sorry it is not only about music, since NW started the whole scandal-specualtion machine themselves. They are only getting what they started.

Ted wrote on 06.10.2009 at 17:00
Jeremy,
That's a simple pop-rock-like song with easy vocal line, there isn't anything hard to manage.lol Very average and mainstreamish.
And it suits her because she is a pop-rock singer, she is great mostly in doing backing vocals :)

Isablee, her arms are just fat, that's all, do not be horrified :) By the way aren't you touched?

"Swedish vocalist and singer for the band Nightwish"

Swedish singer for the band NW isn't enough for her, eh? She wants to come first like Swedish vocalist and only then like singer of some NW band. Maybe she thinks that everything Finnish is mediocre in comparison with Swedish?

O_0 wrote on 06.10.2009 at 17:10
The Rasmus's song with Olzon is very simple, very poppy, and very...common, there are lots of songs like that among pop rock songs on radio :(

Tilo wrote on 06.10.2009 at 17:19
Talking about PMS? What is wrong with that woman-she is totally brainless!!!! It is just sick ,she is so self-indulged, selfish, money-and-fame-obssesed! Disgusting woman!

And that Rasmus song is very easy one and poppish, so of course she could manage that. Perfect for karaoke, lol

Islander wrote on 06.10.2009 at 18:37
@Oceanwithin
Yeah you are right, lets burn those people, Ill get logs you bring the gas heheheh. Once is the best metal album ever!!

Ragnarök wrote on 06.10.2009 at 21:31
Ok, I made two posts, but they both count.

Ted wrote on 06.10.2009 at 21:57
@Ted

The problem is that you read but you don't understand the message and after that you try to be smart with your twisted words...pity...,but one thing is sure... what ever me or other people like is any your business and everybody can listen what ever they want so you can keep your pointless opinions about that and I can keep my "bad taste"!Have you never consider this about own music taste:WHAT YOU LIKE SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE AND WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE SOME PEOPLE LIKE...think about that!

Don't reply to me because I don't want to play with you and spend my time for this "bull shit"...BYE!

Jimmie wrote on 07.10.2009 at 01:30
What about Olzen's Firetribe song? You never mentioned that.

And for God's sake, I wish that people would stop saying "Of course you like that, it's simple as pie." It kinda insinuates that I take the path of least resistance as well. There's a reason why Rush was the first metal band I ever heard.

Jeremy wrote on 07.10.2009 at 04:15
@Ragnarök

"I really doubt that she (Annette) was the best one from the 2000 singers that auditioned for Nightwish."

Of course she wasn't! And I also think to know why they (Tuomas) chose her. This is the story:

Oceansoul dedicated different poetic love songs to his love Tarja, the last was "Ghost Love Score". But Tarja, who in the meantime got married, rejected him. So he took his revenge by writing a letter and insulting her and her husband. His heart was broken and decided to take a whore as consolation prize. Then he dedicated a song to her, "Whoever Brings The Night" and ... let her sing it!

;)

ErikJr wrote on 07.10.2009 at 04:47
Hehehe The Rasmus sucks, of curse Anette fits that dime a dozen, mainstream band.

@Jimmie said:

"These "Anette sucks" or "Tarja sucks" comments are so stupid and even "Wratchild" uses these provoke comments you better watch also to the mirror and read what kind of language you have used about Anette...this is one example of yours:"narcissist bitch"....maybe you understand my point!"

If someone says "Anette is a talentless, poppy, wannabe, singer" well its telling the true, but if someone says something like "Tarja is a diva, she can't sing, she sucks, blah, blah" Well that guy: Must be a thirteen year old kid, that thinks that the first Nightwish albums are too operatic or to symphonic; that listens to pop; and thinks that Nightwish is gothic and Anette is sexy.

But WE the REAL Nightwish fans think that:

1) Tarja is a professional singer, extremely talented, and "The Diva" thing its almost clearly a lie.
2) The best Nightwish show is and its going to be "End of an Era" (The DPP tour got negative reviews, and it doesnt matter how much "Pms Nettie" tries to improve her voice shes always gonna sound like a dying cat)
3) The best Nightwih album is and its probably going to be "Once"
4) We dont hate "Pms Nettie" just because she took Tarja's place on the band, we hate her because: She doesnt fit the band's style or musical talent, shes a pop singer, she's (apparently) using the band to promote her solo carrer; she's egocentric, childish (she's 38) and narcissist; she doesnt like metal music; and its giving the band a bad reputation.
5) And we hope that "Pms Nettie" leaves the band or gets fired so Nightwish can recover the reputation, and standard that it used to have, things that "Narcissit bitch Nettie" is killing.

Ragnarök wrote on 07.10.2009 at 06:21
Dedicated to all, who think Rasmus song proved Princess singing qualities...

this song is equaly "difficult". Hope you will like it, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmOtWyjs8iU

mermaid wrote on 07.10.2009 at 10:51
"The problem is that you read but you don't understand the message and after that you try to be smart with your twisted words...pity...,but one thing is sure... what ever me or other people like is any your business and everybody can listen what ever they want so you can keep your pointless opinions about that and I can keep my "bad taste"!"

The problem is actually that you try to tell me or others what to say and what to think here or not to say or think here, also twisting words or ignoring them. And as well what me or other people do not like or like is not your business and you as well could keep your opinion about that to yourself. But you didn't keep your opinion to yourself, so why I should keep my opinion to myself? And I'm sorry but I'll reply, though it hurts you and you do not want to listen :)

Jeremy, if it makes you happy, Firetribe song is a solid pop rock with quite simple though catchy tune, kinda 80s style in that, reminds me about it at least, also not hard vocally.:) And telling that the song is simple when it is simple is ok :)

Ted wrote on 07.10.2009 at 11:13
ErikJr you know you have a point here. In DPP there are several mentions of "whore" in lyrics :) Maybe it was just his frustration with women, you know, one turned him down and now they all suck or something to him.

Ysabel wrote on 07.10.2009 at 11:16
I now think that it would be even better if they leave only Marco dude on vocals! After all now he sings much more and his voice covers Anette's voice hands down. He already seems like the lead singer in the band.

Quetus wrote on 07.10.2009 at 11:19
Ragnarok siad:

"Honestly I didnt hated miss Olzon the minute she be became the lead singer."
_________________________
Ragnarok, Mrs. Olzon was that time a MARRIED woman, so it is a bit rude to call her "Miss".

Now she is a divorced woman, so i do not know how in your country, but in here we call divorced women and widows with "Mrs", the same goes for all women of "certain" age.

So, however I try to understand your "Miss" - I can not get it. She is divorced and almost 40 - could be a grandmother.

So, you would better stick with MRS.... Or you can call her "Princess", as we do. :-))

mermaid wrote on 07.10.2009 at 11:43
@Ragnarök: please...ONCE is not metal! Come on!Nightwish is not metal, Nightwish NEVER was metal.

OceanWithin wrote on 07.10.2009 at 14:13
In the mean time, fat narcissic PMS Princess is making big cahs and doesn't care what you think of her so I do really prefere debating over this ONCE statement as being the best album of NW. Caus all the real NW I know consider Oceanborn or at least Century Child as their masterpiece.
Honnestly, I can't headbang on Nemo properly.

OceanWithin wrote on 07.10.2009 at 14:20
@OceanWithin

"fat narcissic PMS Princess is making big cahs and doesn't care what you think of her"

1)Who said that we want her to care,or that we want her to see our comments and take them seriously?
Besides,we don't live in a fantasy world.WE KNOW that she doesn't care and prefers to listen to her followers saying how much of a beautiful,talented,in-fashion and kind-hearted she is.
I don't blame her though.

2)About the cash thing,so what???!Money is good,helps a lot(especially if you are a fashion victim)but it doesn't make you a better person,more like the opposite.

You see,when she started,she was kind and cute.It's not hard for me to imagine that.But as she became more and more popular and rich just by being the new singer of NW,her greediness (and hip line) grew bigger and bigger.

If someone is sad,shopping is good,i know that.It makes you feel better.But only for a while...

I don't say all that because my life may be miserable as some of you will say.No,my life is fine.I enjoy making money too,and spending them,but i just can't see the big deal.
I tend to calculate one person's importance based on other things,not income.Especially when it comes to artists.

For example,Bruce Dickinson is know for being one of the best(maybe the best)metal singers and stage performers,writing good songs,flying airplanes and wining trophy's by fencing.
Not for his bank account.

Legeon wrote on 07.10.2009 at 16:42
@ O_0

no i'm not, sorry;)

Isabell wrote on 07.10.2009 at 16:57
@mermaid

"So, however I try to understand your "Miss" - I can not get it. She is divorced and almost 40 - could be a grandmother. So, you would better stick with MRS.... Or you can call her "Princess", as we do. :-))"

Good point, but i think im gonna call her "Menopause Nettie", "Narcissist Bitch", "Egocentric, telentless Nettie" or "Old Fart" depending on my mood

Ragnarök wrote on 07.10.2009 at 17:21
@OceanWithin

"ONCE is not metal! Come on!Nightwish is not metal, Nightwish NEVER was metal."

How dare you say something as stupid as that!? In your "brilliant" opinion what the hell you think is metal?
You just prove to me and the rest of the fans here that you don't know about music.
Let me enlighten you:
There are many subgenres of metal, if you think metal only has grunting and death guitars, you're wrong.
Nightwish is SYMPHONIC POWER METAL!
Any band in that genre uses: operatic or melodic voices, symphonic keyboards or orchestras along with a strong guitar and powerful drums.
Once is the masterpiece of the symphonic genre.

Read and investigate some before coming here and saying things like that.

Let me guess, you're just a 13 year old kid or something like that, right?
Someone that probably listens to Miley Cyrus and loves it.

Ragnarök wrote on 07.10.2009 at 17:53
I usually agree with you, Ragnarök, but Oceanborn is so much better than Once! Once is more mainstream and pop-like, not as much as Dark Passion Play, but it isn't half as good as Oceanborn or Wishmaster. There are great songs, like Ghost Love Score, but all in all it's not that original and progressive.

Earwen wrote on 07.10.2009 at 21:23
@Ragnarök: please continue argumenting about metal, it's fun

And again, saying it's not "metal" doesn't mean that "it's not good", heu...! IMO, there are better albums from NW than Once ( which was their first big commercial success and opened them to a larger fanbase after MTV caught up on Nemo ) which at the time in 2003/2004 confirmed the previous Century Child new direction away from "operatic" ( heads down ).

Once is good, but not that. Honnestly, DPP is better on production side and writing but than again the "symphonic" overproduction kills a lot on DPP.

For my personal record:
1. Oceanborn
2. Century Child
3. DarkPAssionPlay
4. Wishmaster
5. Once
6. AFF --> which on some days I tend to set on 2 or 3, but today it's last in the row.

OceanWithin wrote on 08.10.2009 at 09:51
@Ragnarök: sorry, but for you again.

Your nicknames for Anette are best. You rule ( you know that! ) and I'm eagerly waiting for new ones. They are so true and an undoubtable proof for your maturity and NW experience! You stick to hard facts and don't let yourself mislead in your opinion. My personal best is "Old fart" which is.... a masterpiece again. The truth is being told here guys! Wow. 2 thumbs up!

*sarcasm mode off again*

OceanWithin wrote on 08.10.2009 at 14:08
@Oceanwithin

You lost all cred when you put Dark Fashion Play before Wishmaster Lol

Phoenix wrote on 08.10.2009 at 19:20
Well..
I love Nightwish and like Anette's and Tarja's voices.
My favourite albums are Century Child and Dark Passion Play. So emotional and powerful.
I think we can comment about the Lokikirja-box and stop saying crap about any member.
Also, I think there's a lot of stupid people and I'm tired to read comments from people who cant say something intelligent without blaming and insulting others.

Otherwise, I would love to have the Lokikirja-box in my room and it would be a pleasure to look at it every day of my life :)
Also, I want a Hartwall Areena (19.09.09) DVD.

Hope you could enjoy the music, feel the emotions and stop being so egocentric and disgusting ;)

|Paradise Seeker| wrote on 08.10.2009 at 19:57
@OceanWithin

You just prove that you are a kid. So im not gonna waste my time debating with you. I'll bet you were not even born when Nightwish released "Angels Fall First".

Ragnarök wrote on 08.10.2009 at 20:44
"Hope you could enjoy the music, feel the emotions and stop being so egocentric and disgusting ;)"

Thank you..... Paradise Seeker your words are right!!!!!!
I will do it.... :-)
This here is a kindergarden..and nothing else...

OceanWithin: Lass dich nicht ärgern...das wollen die doch nur....
Ich kann dich verstehen...AFF ist je nach Stimmung auch mal mehr und mal weniger mein Favorit..aber so geht es mir mit den meisten NW Liedern..ich kann das gar nicht mal nach den Samplern einteilen, sondern eher nach den einzelnen Liedern...und nach meinem eigenen Launebarometer ;-)
Ich würde die Box auch kaufen...nur leider habe ich schon alle CDs, DPP sogar doppelt...und ich bin fast zu geizig die Box zu kaufen, aber wenn die doch noch eine DVD vom Helsinki-Gig machen, dann steht die ganz schnell bei mir im Schrank!!

celisajan wrote on 08.10.2009 at 21:34
@ Paradise Seeker.
I don't really care about the endless quarreling, but you said:

"I'm tired to read comments from people who cant say something intelligent WHITHOUT BLAMING AND INSULTING OTHERS"

and then:

"Hope you could enjoy the music, feel the emotions and stop being so EGOCENTRIC AND DISGUSTING ;)"

Consistency anyone?

me wrote on 08.10.2009 at 23:48
|Paradise Seeker| said:

"stop being so egocentric"

But he also said,few words back:

"I love"
"My favourite albums are"
"I think there's a lot of stupid people and I'm tired to read comments"

If you are tired,don't read them.Simple as it is.
But we don't get tired reading NW's and Anette's (sorry,my mistake,it's Anette and THEN NW) words,so we comment on them.

"Hope you could enjoy the music"

NW showed us that music matters zero in their case.It's most about scandals,clothes and magazines now.
And how can we enjoy music when they don't even play it how it's supposed to be played?And i'm not talking about Anette only.

"feel the emotions"

How can we feel "emotions" when the person who wrote about them showed no emotion when he denigrated a woman?
How can we feel "emotions" when we know that mostly these emotions are more or less superficial pretentious lines written just to sell,and most of them copied from other poets?

Legeon wrote on 09.10.2009 at 00:33
@me

Of course,when people like Paradise Seeker post things like that,they address their words to the ones that criticize Anette and NW.

NEVER to some people here using words like "parasite" for Tarja or even worse for people that comment here.

No,"blaming and insulting others" is bad only when people criticize Anette and NW,not when NW fans attack Tarja,for example.

Legeon wrote on 09.10.2009 at 02:21
First of all, I'd like to say that I am a big fan of Nightwish, the band. Be it with Tarja or Anette, or Marco (whose vocals have become more prominent with each album since he joined).

I still can't believe some people have not gotten over the whole Tarja/Anette thing yet. Also, alot of people seem to forget that Tarja had already announced that she was eventually leaving the band, either after the Once era was over or possibly after the upcoming album era.

I would also like to point out that she re-trained her voice for a higher and more feminine range. Compare the remake of Sleeping Sun to the original and you'll hear that her voice really isn't what it used to be. Nowadays, it is better suited for the kind of music she's always wanted to do after leaving Nightwish - less metal and more classical music.

And I think those who claim Nightwish has gone pop, simply because Anette's vocals are different to Tarja's, are out of their minds. Honestly, does that mean Nightwish was opera music prior to Anette joining the band?

Anyway, as far as Tarja getting a cut of the money from this project - not gonna happen. Why not? Well, she didn't write anything, at all! And she's not in the band. That means she's not entitled to any royalties.

Wishmaster wrote on 09.10.2009 at 03:48
@Wishmaster

Who said we are mad because they fired Tarja?Honestly,if you think that,then you have understood nothing of our comments here.

I actually believe that the firing part was the only positive thing in the whole story.
The problem is with the way it happened.Obviously NW wanted to create media noise,to fire Tarja making her look bad and still making themselves look like saints.

I don't care who's to blame,if the letter is right or not(which has repeatedly be proven that most of it were lies-just look at their new singer) but they had no right to denigrate her like that.
NW fans never see it that way though.But if someone dares to say anything about their God Tuomas-a war begins.

"Why not? Well, she didn't write anything, at all! And she's not in the band. That means she's not entitled to any royalties. "

Wrong.Some of the first albums were produced by Tuomas AND NW-it's said in the booklet.And at the time they were released,Tarja was a part of NW,so she is entitled.
Also,AFF was written by all of them.It's in the booklet too.

Legeon wrote on 09.10.2009 at 09:42
@Phoenix: Geez!No bonus points left?
@Ragnarök: Honey, is that you? Are you my wife?...if not, there are spooky things going on around here since she claims the same all the time for me being childish.
@Celisjan: das macht mir hier auf einmal Spass.Glaube nicht dass da ne dvd von Hartwall rauskommt aber was solls, maybe so ein boni irgendwo. Muss aber ehrlich gestehen dass die Plattenfirma einem echt auf den Geist gehen kann.
@Legeon: aargh, again...you just.... *bangs the head on the desk*
@wishmaster: nice points here, really fully agree ( there is intelligent life outside! praise the lord )

OceanWithin wrote on 09.10.2009 at 10:07
@ Wishmaster

about the royalities thing: Tarja still gets the royalities as a singer of the older albums, just like Anette gets them as the singer of Dark Passion Play plus as a current member of the band. So yes, a part of this projet's royalities concerning AFF-Once albums will go to Tarja, just like it happens for every pre-2006 NW release. It would be illegal otherwise.

About the other topic, there's not much to say.

Did they fire her in a totally unprofessional and unrespectful way? Yes, and honestly I understand why Tarja fans are upset about this.
Is time to move on? I guess so.

me wrote on 09.10.2009 at 10:45
I agree with Legeon. I don't agree with NW guys not because they fired Tarja, she was going to leave, anyway. What I don't like, is the way they chose to do it. They made her look like "naive greedy bi**ch" and they were like angels who only care about making great music. Yeah, right. And even if it was like that, it is not nice to show it to the whole world... this is something you have to solve in private.
And about the new Nightwish... all I hope is that they let Anette go and find a singer who could sing every old song how it is supposed to be sung and who is not "a wannabe a metal star".

Kiri wrote on 09.10.2009 at 10:51
Ursula said: "And maybe she was in ballet acedemy but her dancing on stage was very bad, this academy didn't teach her anything as it seems."

Don't forget that she was also in a singing academy. Someone should inform Swedish government to close those academies. Or even better, raze them to the ground! Just in case. ;-)

OceanWithin said: "Should I now buy this box set or not? Say something!"

Well OF COURSE you SHOULD! Do you want me to draw it for you? :-)

ErikJr said: "Oceansoul dedicated different poetic love songs to his love Tarja, the last was "Ghost Love Score". But Tarja, who in the meantime got married, rejected him. So he took his revenge by writing a letter and insulting her and her husband. His heart was broken and decided to take a whore as consolation prize. Then he dedicated a song to her, "Whoever Brings The Night" and ... let her sing it! "

+1

Ragnarock said: "@OceanWithin You just prove that you are a kid. So im not gonna waste my time debating with you. I'll bet you were not even born when Nightwish released "Angels Fall First"."

I think OceanWithin said somewhere he's married and has 5 years old kid. You're missing his sarcasm. ;-)

TheSe(ek)er wrote on 09.10.2009 at 12:19
@OceanWithin
Was glaubst du, warum ich hier immer noch weiterlese....ich bin am dauergrinsen...
Eigentlich ist das Ganze nur im ImKreisRumGerede
aber wenn ich dann wieder die ganzen Argumente und Gegenargumente lese.....Ja du hast recht...*Kopf gegen Tischplatte hau und herzhaftlach*.....Lg

Ok !!!
-Tuomas is the bad guy, egocentric...
Anette is the stupid girl, who can´t sing
and Tarja..
Tarja is the the pooor misunderstanded woman, a untouchable and holy Lady-

And I am one of the stupid NW listener who listen to the sound and not to the romours..because..what NW is wearing, saying or doing in their life isn´t important for me...
because my life isn´t important for them , too!!
For me is important, the sound in my ears...and NW sounds good in my ears...with Tarja and with Anette...

celisajan wrote on 09.10.2009 at 15:51
@celisajan

"Tuomas is the bad guy, egocentric...
Anette is the stupid girl, who can´t sing
and Tarja..
Tarja is the the pooor misunderstanded woman, a untouchable and holy Lady- "

Why are you being sarcastic to us by saying those things?Remember that first NW fans said something like this:

Tarja is the bad girl,egocentric.
Anette is the clever girl,who can sing 1000 better than Tarja.
Tuomas is the poor misunderstood man,an untouchable and holy Lord.

Legeon wrote on 09.10.2009 at 17:14
@celisajan

"because my life isn´t important for them , too!!"

Weird.There are bands that always say that their fans come first.

In their recent film,Flight 666,Bruce Dickinson-and if i recollect,Adrian Smith too- is saying that if they reach the point of meaning something special for their fans,something stable to rely on(which they have already managed to do 20 years ago and still go on),they will have achieved something.

I think both NW fans and NW should watch this film and all films by Iron Maiden.
To learn what really big bands are all about.

ps.Yes,i know i'm using every time Iron Maiden as an example,but
1)it's a pretty good example and
2)NW once opened for Iron Maiden(or were to open-i'm not sure) but they now behave like they are 20000 times better than them.Diva behavior,if you like.

Legeon wrote on 09.10.2009 at 17:20
Well, regarding the royalties: Only writers and co-writers are entitled to them. This, Tarja isn't entitled to any. Neither is Anette, for that matter. Someone mentioned the production, which is a one off payment. The producer gets paid for his work once it's done and that's the end of that (believe me, I know quite a few people in the record industry and this is how it works). The producer has no right to any royalties or any share of the sales of the album (he's already been paid for his work). Like I said, this is a privilege exclusive to the songwriter(s).

Peace out!

Wishmaster wrote on 09.10.2009 at 19:27
@legeon

If you read my comments, you will see, I never said something like that.....
In my opinion Anette isn´t the best choice for NW, but for me it´s ok!!!!!
In my opinion Tarja isn´t the bad girl, but I don´t think she is an angel!!!
In my opinion Tuomas isn´t a poor misunderstood boy, but I think he makes good songs and he is a Man with a lot of responsibility and whatever he said, he must stand for it....
its a hard job.... and when he makes mistakes in his words..it doesn´t matters to me...because I only want to hear his musik and not the story behind the stage, because, thats not my story...
I read the news of the band hopefully that Tuomas hurrry up and make the new album....Ill be waiting .....
And the reason , why i read this comments here is, that It´s amused me , and on TV isn´t nothig to watch..... ;-)
So go on guys and give me some news to read here,
I take it with humor.....

celisajan wrote on 09.10.2009 at 22:31
@Wishmaster

Tarja is one of the co-writers,of AFF.
In the booklet,is says "music written by Nightwish".

Legeon wrote on 09.10.2009 at 22:55
True, but we don't really know the details regarding AFF. Of course, I think one should be able to look it up. I can't be bothered to check who their publisher is, but all songs are registered in a database with actual names of the co-writers (band names are not allowed). In a booklet, you can basically credit the track to whomever you want. I'm not saying I don't think Tarja is entitled to anything, I'm just trying to be objective based on what I know about the industry and how it works.

By the way, one last comment on the vocalist matter - I think it's not fair to say that Nightwish is fronted only by a female singer anymore. It's Anette AND Marco. They both have about the same amount of vocals on Dark Passion Play and I expect (and hope) this to be the case with the upcoming album too. I think Anette and Marco have great chemistry (Tarja on the other hand did much better as a solo vocalist in the band than with Marco as her duet partner, imo).

Anyway, I am really looking forward to their next album - but 2011? I don't wanna wait that long! That's one hell of a gap between the albums!

Wishmaster wrote on 10.10.2009 at 00:00
Wishmaster wrote: "Well, regarding the royalties: Only writers and co-writers are entitled to them. This, Tarja isn't entitled to any. Neither is Anette, for that matter. Someone mentioned the production, which is a one off payment. The producer gets paid for his work once it's done and that's the end of that (believe me, I know quite a few people in the record industry and this is how it works). The producer has no right to any royalties or any share of the sales of the album (he's already been paid for his work). Like I said, this is a privilege exclusive to the songwriter(s)."

Then I have a question: Why couldn't they release some of the old songs on MIHK? They said it was because they didn't have the rights, didn't they? But since Tuomas wrote most of the songs alone, who else could possibly have the rights of the songs?

Earwen wrote on 10.10.2009 at 12:46
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuBQlMJ2Q1E

deco wrote on 10.10.2009 at 20:30
Ragnarök: In fact, Anette mentioned herself in the log that they CHANGED the vocal lines for "Sahara" because they couldn't handle the original music that Tuomas had composed! She seemed to say that the range and the jumps of the melodies were too large! What a laugh!

Jeremy: You haven't understood anything. Not the use of the orchestra itself made Once commercial, but the toning down and simplification going on with the other elements (both vocals and metal instrumental parts). And commercialisation does NOT constitute "experimentalness" nor artistic development, quite the other way. Experimenting means taking risks. If anything, Nightwish are regressive rather than progressive - even their skills are sagging! How often do we need to repeat this?

By the way, according to your logic, if they fired Anette and got some other, entirely different singer, wouldn't that be an experiment again? :-D

celisajan: Wenn Du Deinen Kopf nicht ständig gegen die Tischplatte haust, wird mir klar, warum Du unsere Argumente nicht kapiert - der Grund für die ständige Im-Kreis-Diskussion :-p

OceanWithin: Once (haha) again, the majority of Nightwish songs are indeed 100% metal, like it or not.

Wishmaster: Well, in that case, this re-release is only going to line Tuomas's pockets (and those of Marco and Emppu, somewhat, too). One more reason to avoid this box.

As for Nightwish now being a dual fronted band - this reminds me of Evanescence, Lacuna Coil, Visions of Atlantis or the older beauty-and-the-beast bands (though, in this case, I wonder who's the beauty and who's the beast :-p). Next thing you know Anette is going to be increasingly relegated to background vocals, just like in early gothic metal. Doesn't sound like a progression to me, more like a regression. :-p

Almagest wrote on 10.10.2009 at 21:00
deco said: "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuBQlMJ2Q1E"

LOL!!! Almagest what language is that?

TheSeer wrote on 10.10.2009 at 22:02
@Almagest

Finally someone with brains!

Ragnarök wrote on 11.10.2009 at 05:37
I went to Tarja's gig in Athens today. I just want to say a couple of words that sums up both my thoughts for the concert and for the whole NW-Tarja issue.

From now on i'll never listen to any new staff or go to concerts of NW or Tarja, i'm gonna stop supporting them in any way, until they both realise that they've become musical jokes. NW used to be my favourite band, so I loved everything about them. But for me both NW and Tarja are dead. There is no magic in NW without Tarja as there was no magic in Tarja today without them...

If it wasn't for the excellent Mike Terrana, Tarja's concert would have been completely boring.

Sleeping Sun wrote on 11.10.2009 at 06:35
(here some words in german, because it´s hard for me to write it all in english, Thanks for you understanding)
@almagest
Oh doch ich verstehe eure Argumente sehr gut,aber manche andere wollen ja die anderen Argumente(Gegenpartei???keine Ahnung wie ich das nennen mag) auch nicht akzeptieren und wenn du meine Kommentare gelesen hast, würdest du merken das ich ja gar kein Anette Verfechter bin...
Es amüsiert mich nur dermassen, wie man sich über das Leben anderer (NW)so heftigst auslassen kann, obwohl man diese Personen weder persönlich kennt, noch das man ALLE Hintergründe wüsste um tatsächlich mitreden zu können..
Kurzum redet hier jeder das er ja mehr wüsste als der Gegner und der andere ist ja unterbelichtet....darum geht es hier, reine Wortmachtspielereien..

Über die Hintergründe rum zu debattieren ist zwar unterhaltsam aber nicht wirklich produktiv!
Ich sehe das ähnlich mit Schauspielern:
Ich mag viele Schauspieler so vom Typ her nicht wirklich, aber wenn sie in dem jeweiligen Film ihre Rolle spielen und mir der Film gefällt, interessiert mich die Person dahinter kein Stück weit...
Anette selber ist persönlich überhaupt nicht mein Ding, ich war auch immer ein grosser Tarja Fan und Anette war für mich erstmal eine Entäuschung.. ihre Stimme ist zwar nicht überragend einzigartig, aber sie ist meiner Meinung auch nicht grottenschlecht..wie gesagt an Tarja kommt sie nicht ran..aber das hat die Band auch nicht erwartet..
Das mit ihrem Blog finde ich ehrlich gesagt auch nicht wirklich intelligent, aber bitte ich muss ihn ja nicht lesen...

Warum und wie sich Menschen trennen...darüber kann man auch ewig reden, ich glaube jeder hier von uns(abgesehen von den unter16jährigen) hatte schon Erfahrungen mit Trennungen..da wird oftmals Dreckwäsche hingeschmissen, die besser im Keller geblieben wäre..und ich persönlich bleibe in dem Glauben, auch wenn Tuomas derjenige war der laut der Öffentlichkeit Mist gebaut hat, so kann es aber auch sein, das Tarja hinter den Kulissen, so das wir Fans es eben nicht mitbekommen haben, Tuomas so gereizt hat, das er diesen Weg genommen hat.
Nun ist Tarja damit zwar diskreter... aber mehr Charakter zeigt sie damit auch nicht.... höchstens mehr Intelligenz und das diese Frau nicht dumm ist, das ist wohl klar!!!
Ich finde sie als Sängerin wunderbar und ich höre sie sehr gerne, aber ich setze weder ihr noch der NW Band einen Heiligeschein auf, warum auch
...ich will doch nur die Lieder hören und ob die Skandale haben oder sich mit ihrem Klamotten lächerlich machen( ich fand den weissen Hut auch...bäh und Anettes Outfit lässt mich schief grinsen)
das alles ist für mich selber nicht wichtig, ich bin doch mit denen nicht befreundet, als das es micht stören müsste
Zum Thema Outfit, nur eine Kleinigkeit, schaut euch mal um..es gibt viele auch grosse Stars die verdammt oft eher skandalös als gut aussehen... bei denen heisst es dann wow wie gewagt....
aber bei Anette wird es doch mit Absicht genutzt um etwas zu finden um über sie lästern zu können, ..

Aber als NW Neuling ist sie unten durch, weil viele alte NW Fans es sehr persönlich nehmen das man ihre heilige Tarja vom Thron gestossen hat.... und so muss ja auf ihr rumgehackt werden...und das nach 4 jahren immer noch...
Und da sie tatsächlich genug Angriffsfläche bietet, wird sich auf sie eingeschossen und jeder hat noch irgendwo ein faules Ei das er nach ihr werfen kann.....
Was sind wir Menschen doch für grausame Tiere... ;-)

Ich sage immer es braucht mindesten 2 Parteien um in Streit zu geraten und meistens tragen beide Seiten ihren Teil dazu bei!!!!!

Und da ich persönlich weder von der einen noch von der anderen tatsächlich genug und schon gar nicht alles weiss, habe ich nicht das recht zu (ver)urteilen....
Ich lese die Artikel auch und ich mache mir meine eigenen Gedanken dazu, aber letztendlich steht die Musik für mich über den ganzen Skandalen, denn auch wenn die Stories rund um Bands immer sehr unterhaltsam sind..so ist es doch ihre Musik die uns zu ihren Fans gemacht hat , oder?????

In diesem Sinne, hoffe ich auf ein neues Album und auf weitere 4Jahre in denen weiter darüber debattiert wird, wer denn nun der(die) Böse und wer der(die) Gute ist, so wirds uns auch nicht langweilig!!!

celisajan wrote on 11.10.2009 at 11:49
@TheSeer

It's Finnish language

deco wrote on 11.10.2009 at 14:16
@Sleeping Sun

What the fuck are you talking about?I went to that show of Tarja too yesterday.It was great,she was in her best shape!

Not to mention that she and her band performed NW songs way better than NW themselves!Yesterday i was just wondering why she didn't leave earlier!

She was cheerful,and in no moment it was boring!

Were you in a different concert or something?
Because obviously you must have been the only one bored in there.

Eisai me ta kala sou?

Legeon wrote on 11.10.2009 at 15:54
@celisajan:"Oh doch ich verstehe eure Argumente sehr gut,aber manche andere wollen ja die anderen Argumente(Gegenpartei???keine Ahnung wie ich das nennen mag) auch nicht akzeptieren"

Welche Argumente denn? Alles was ich bisher gelesen habe, war "Das ist doch alles Geschmackssache" (Totschlagargument, und Töne treffen oder nicht ist keine Geschmackssache) oder in Bezug auf den Streit "So genau können wir das nun mal nicht wissen", was kein Argument, sondern ein Ausweichen ist (aber darauf geh ich nachher nochmal was länger ein). Sorry.

"Es amüsiert mich nur dermassen, wie man sich über das Leben anderer (NW)so heftigst auslassen kann, obwohl man diese Personen weder persönlich kennt, noch das man ALLE Hintergründe wüsste um tatsächlich mitreden zu können.. "

Das bringst du in fast jedem deiner Beiträge, und ich hab die irgendwo schonmal darauf geantwortet: Wenn du Kommentare unter Nightwish-News schreibst, schreibe über die Band und nicht über das Verhalten anderer Poster hier. Du kannst dich gerne amüsieren, aber unser geistiger Zustand geht dich nichts an und ist unser Problem und du brauchst uns somit nicht in jedem Post darauf aufmerksam zu machen.
Mir ist aber durchaus klar, dass manche Tarja-Fans das genauso machen und über den geistigen Zustand von Newwish-Fans spekulieren, was dann natürlich genauso fehl am Platz ist, sofern nicht wirklich jemand beleidigend wurde.

"ich persönlich bleibe in dem Glauben, auch wenn Tuomas derjenige war der laut der Öffentlichkeit Mist gebaut hat, so kann es aber auch sein, das Tarja hinter den Kulissen, so das wir Fans es eben nicht mitbekommen haben, Tuomas so gereizt hat, das er diesen Weg genommen hat."

Nun irgendwie muss man sich seine Meinung ja bilden (du hast schließlich auch eine, oder?), und ich persönlich mache das anhand der Fakten, die wir haben:

Schlechtes über Tuomas: Er hat seine Sängerin mit einer absolut unnötigen Rufmordaktion gefeuert, mit diversen Songs (sogar Singles) auf dem nächsten Album auch noch auf ihr rumgehackt (und auf ihrem Mann) und gelegentlich auch in Interviews miese Kommentare abgegeben.

Über Tarja: Nur was Tuomas in dem Brief behauptet hat, manche Fankommentare ("hat mich ignoriert") , die es über jede Sängerin gibt und eine eher subtile Verarbeitung in einem Song, der lediglich auf einer Sonderedition ihres Albums erschien.

Indem du sagst "Tarja hatte bestimmt auch einen guten Teil Schuld" bildest du dir doch auch deine Meinung, aber soweit ich sehe, ist diese mit NICHTS außer "zu einem Streit gehören immer zwei" (womit du ganz einfach die Möglichkeit abstreitest, dass Tuomas den allergrößten Teil der Schuld haben könnte - was kein Argument ist!) begründet. Und trotzdem scheinst du dir irgendwie soviel abgeklärter und klüger als der Rest hier vorzukommen (natürlich nur mein Eindruck)...Ich versteh's echt nicht, außer du findest es einfach generell so viel klüger, keine klare Stellung für eine Partei zu beziehen.

"Nun ist Tarja damit zwar diskreter... aber mehr Charakter zeigt sie damit auch nicht.... höchstens mehr Intelligenz und das diese Frau nicht dumm ist, das ist wohl klar!!! "

Tuomas anscheinend nicht - hat er nicht mal behauptet, sie würde Paris für die Hauptstadt von Finnland halten, wenn man es ihr nur oft genug sagt?

"es gibt viele auch grosse Stars die verdammt oft eher skandalös als gut aussehen... bei denen heisst es dann wow wie gewagt....
aber bei Anette wird es doch mit Absicht genutzt um etwas zu finden um über sie lästern zu können, .. "

Von denen sind wir deshalb ja im Normalfall auch nicht Fans, außer es wird durch eine große Menge Talent ausgeglichen^^

"Aber als NW Neuling ist sie unten durch, weil viele alte NW Fans es sehr persönlich nehmen das man ihre heilige Tarja vom Thron gestossen hat.... und so muss ja auf ihr rumgehackt werden...und das nach 4 jahren immer noch... "

Kein Mensch hackt wegen Tarjas Rausschmiss auf Anette rum - wäre unlogisch - und dass der Vergleich mit Tarja kommt, musste ihr doch klar sein. Dass sie dabei v.a. gesanglich schlechter abschneidet, ist nicht unsere Schuld, oder?
Dass allerdings manchmal hier auf Kleinigkeiten rumgehackt wird, stimmt, find ich normal auch nicht gut. Aber du kannst trotzdem nicht einfach behaupten, dass wir sie nicht gut finden, weil wir Tarja mögen!

Ich will Tarja auch nicht einfach den Heiligenschein aufsetzen, aber wie gesagt, ich wüsste keine schlechten Fakten über sie und ihr demzufolge einfach Fehler zuzuschreiben, weil sie doch bestimmt welche gemacht haben musst, ist ganz genauso unfair.

Sorry, falls das manchmal etwas schroff formuliert ist, es ist nicht beleidigend gemeint, aber ich hab mich gerade etwas aufgeregt und jetzt keine Lust, es nochmal durchzugehen ;-)

Earwen wrote on 11.10.2009 at 16:34
@Legeon

First of all a friendly advice because I've read lots of your posts (I agree with most of them): You should be more open to other people's opinion and stop writing like your opinion is common sense.

7/9 people of my company also believed that it was a boring concert. The 2 of them that liked it are not metalheads and it was their first time in a concert, so guess what? I was not the only one who thought it was boring. What's more i spoke with two guys from rocking and guess what? They also think that the concert was bad. Wow, that makes at least 9 of us.

1)Mike Terrana was a joy to watch, both as a drummer and as a showman he's fantastic.

2) Tarja was ok, I agree she was in a very good mood and she didn't lose any chance to say sth good about the greek crowd (unlike Olzon - I'll call her Avril from now on coz her singing style reminds me of Avril Lavigne- or maybe i'll just call her Kalomoira, u know Legeon :-P). Her Individual performance was good, but nowhere near her performance in Lycabbetus 2005 nor in Rockwave 2004. Maybe that's also because Gagarin's acoustics isn't to her favour.

3) One of the main reasons none of us liked the concert was because after 100+ concerts it was the first time we went to one where there was no gutar player. Unless you think that that poor guy that was just holding a guitar and banding was also playing. We never heard him playing and when we did it was awful. The keyboard player was also veeeery weak.

4)Her songs are not that good (and that's my personal opinion and taste, don't mess with that). Most of them have the same slow tempo at the start a strong vocal refrain and that's it. Nothing to most of them really. Enough, I walk alone were enough for me.

5) How long did we say that they played? 1:30' maximum? Wow, that's the hell of a show!

6)Nightwish songs performed better than NW??? Ok, time to take your from wishes to Eternity DVD out and remember how NW performed (and i mean performed, thay don't anymore) Deep Silent complete and wishmaster. As for yesterday i admit that you could say wishmaster was ok (thanks to Terrana), and Deep Silent Complete was more like Deep Silent Tragedy. I've been waiting for years to hear this one live only to be greatly disappointed. As for the covers: Over the hills and far away was FAR MORE INFERIOR than when it was performed by good old NW and Poison is a total joke, a disaster. It should be teached in musical schools under the name "how to ruin a really great song". I really wonder who chose that one to be in her set-list.

And one last thing to let you understand that I'm not an anti-Tarja fan or sth. The Nw concert in March Metal Day Festival 2008 was by far the worst concert i've ever been to, especially in terms of what i felt after it. I left the place feeling like a whining cheated man who wanted to cry...

Sleeping Sun wrote on 11.10.2009 at 18:00
So, the best arguement from NNF or New NW fans now is that NW never ever was metal band at all? That's so cute! But does it mean according to New NW fans that NW was always a pop band? :) Probably...

Earwen, lovely, you asked a very good question about MiHK, but still imagine that PMS Nettie according to this NW fan's logic also won't get a dime from this re-release :) Only Tuomas, Emppu and Marco will get cash, no Jukka btw, he didn't write anything as you know ;)

And actually yeah Marco now looks more like a lead singer of the band :) Lead male vocals with female backing vocals seems for NW quite a fine option now.

The Riddler wrote on 11.10.2009 at 18:56
@Earwin...
Ich sage nicht alle...sondern einige...warum regst du dich also auf???
Gegen dich ist es gar nicht gerichtet... :-)
Mir ist schon aufgefallen das du nicht zu denen gehörst die nur blind in eine Richtung rennen..
Und zu deinem Text man soll hier Sachen zur Band sagen und nicht andere Kommentatoren analysieren...
in dem man auf die Worte des anderen eingeht um mit ihm darüber zu reden analysiert man unbeabsichtigt den anderen anhand dessen geschriebener Worte..ich wurde hier auch schon als blinder Anetteverehrer hingestellt( und das obwohl ich mehrmals sagte ich finde sie gar nicht besonders) und von anderen analysiert, also behalte ich mir dieses Recht auch!!
Danke für dein Verständnis im Voraus!:-)
Und während sich hier gegenseitig Zeug zu geschmissen wird (von beiden Seiten) lese ich es und grinse und gebe eben auch meinen Senf dazu...auch das sei mir erlaubt, diese Seite hier ist öffentlich

Und warum darf man nicht fair sein und sagen es könnten beide Seiten mitschuld haben???
Denn manch einer hier urteilt nur über nach aussen gezeigte Fakten, woher wollt ihr wissen ob Tarja nicht hintenrum und diskret(schönes Wort) auch genug beigetragen hat.nach ...( ja du hast recht, ich merke grade ich wiederhole mich tatsächlich) und hinterfragt wird nichts, denn es scheint ja alles so offensichtlich..manchmal sind es eben mehr die Dinge die man nicht sieht, als die die achso offensichtlich sind!

Ich will weder urteilen noch verurteilen, ich wollte nur mal zum nachdenken anregen, ob hier nicht manches ein bischen überbewertet wird...
Aber hier will man nicht nachdenken, hier werden nur Standpunkte bis aufs Blut verteidigt...

zB Anette singt bei the Rasmus mit, mir gefällt ihre Stimme dort und auch das Lied...mag es noch so einfach zugeschnitten sein, ich finde es schön...
muss ich mir nun wie ein Kulturbanause vorkommen???
Ich denke nicht, denn auch einfache Dinge, mit wenig Aufwand können schön sein..
Aber ach ja, ich vergass, die unfähige Anette singt das ja...wie kann man so was nur schön finden... und genau damit analysiert man andere.....
Also sage du mir nun, wer wird hier analysiert...
Ich finde niemanden dumm der Tarja hört aber ich richte auch über keinen der Anette mag, denn auch wenn sie nicht die Topstimme hat, in einigen Liedern klingt ihre Stimme schön und ich sage nicht sie wäre begnadet! Ich gestehe ihr nur zu das sie nicht so talentlos ist wie mancher es sich mit aller Gewalt einzureden versucht!!

celisajan wrote on 11.10.2009 at 18:56
Another pointless re-release to get cash, lol
Ah ,well, too bad NW degraded :(

Alison wrote on 11.10.2009 at 18:58
@Sleeping Sun

1)I agree that Mike Terrana was the highlight of the show,but i don't think her guitar player was bad...Don't forget that Emppu was never a good guitar player...Or even if he is,Tuomas never lets him show his skills...
2)I liked the way she said her own songs,especially My Little Phoenix was much harder than the original one.
And it's very unfair to judge her first composing attempt with the same standards we judge NW now.Remember that when NW started,they were rejected by everyone.Their first songs(especially their first demo) are so boring they make me wanna leave this world.
3)I don't think we can compare the show yesterday with From Wishes To Eternity,since they were younger then,and of course it's a DVD.Mixed and overdubbed and everything.But if you compare Wishmaster we hears yesterday with Wismaster we hear now from NW,i'm sure you'll agree that Tarja played it much better.
4)I believe you are completely entitled to dislike her songs,but that doesn't make that show "boring",as you said.She was actually very energetic and vivid.I suggest you to see latest NW live shows to take a bit of "boring".
5)Yes,Anette can clearly be the next Kalomoira...Only that Kalomoira is in a better position...Young and slim and beautiful...(i'm not talking about talent :P)
6)Finally,i must say i'm greatful that at least we have Tarja to play old NW songs...It's our only chance to hear them played like they're supposed to :)

Legeon wrote on 11.10.2009 at 19:56
I really wonder when Mrs Anette Olzon turned herself into narcissist bitch! Really, cause I though she didn't have that problem at the beginning. Thanks for posting her so-called blog entries here, I didn't know she was like that, but it looks like she thinks she is the hub of the universe. And combining it with her performance, well lol! The best song she could manage is that pop rock simple studio song like her duet with Rasmus.

Sunny wrote on 11.10.2009 at 20:07
"You should be more open to other people's opinion and stop writing like your opinion is common sense"

Good advice for NNF as well as they try to act as if it is them who able to tell real truth to the whole world ;)

"7/9 people of my company also believed that it was a boring concert. The 2 of them that liked it are not metalheads and it was their first time in a concert"

I had just the same experience with my fellows at NW concert this year :)

Actually mermaid now has a fellow friend SleepingSun, both do not like New NW and Tarja, but both liked Old NW :)

Richard wrote on 11.10.2009 at 20:18
"Hope you could enjoy the music, feel the emotions and stop being so egocentric and disgusting ;)"

Said the person who also said: " I think there's a lot of stupid people....people who cant say something intelligent without blaming and insulting others." Sorry, you do not comply with your own rules. And I was the first one here to go under nickname ParadiseSeeker, so I do not want people mix me with New NW fan who made no point here bar the point that you can't say anything against New NW. But it is not NW fan community here in case you didn't know.

Deco, this prof. parody on New NW is epic! It captures the mood of New NW very well, can you give us the translation of lyrics? Is it something about hermaphrodites?

ParadiseSeeker wrote on 11.10.2009 at 20:58
@Sleeping Sun

You are right, boring concert. boring audience:P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYhQ0jWyu98

snowman wrote on 11.10.2009 at 22:46
@celisajan: dann ist ja gut :)

Natürlich ist es okay, den Schreibstil etc. anderer Leute zu analysieren, aber du (und auch andere) gehst hin und wieder (nicht unbedingt jetzt hier) auf die Tatsache los, dass die Leute, die Newwish nicht mögen, überhaupt hier schreiben. Es ist aber eben unsere Privatsache, was wir mit unserer Freizeit anfangen, und darauf loszugehen wirkt eher wie ein mir-gehen-leider-die-Argumente-aus, sorry. Und ich hab gesagt, dass ich es auch umgekehrt (also bsp. dich als Anette-Fangirl zu bezeichnen) nicht okay finde. Alles nur meine Meinung, wie immer^^

"Und warum darf man nicht fair sein und sagen es könnten beide Seiten mitschuld haben??? "

Man darf sagen, beide *könnten* Schuld haben. Ausschließen kann man das natürlich nicht, man kann nur überlegen, was man für wahrscheinlich hält - und nach den Informationen, die wir haben, scheint mir (und vielen anderen hier ja auch) wahrscheinlicher, dass ein Großteil der Schuld bei Tuomas und seinem Ego liegt. Du hast aber auch durchaus schon geschrieben, dass Tarja *sicher* auch viel Schuld an dem ganzen hat, und jemandem Fehler zuzuschreiben, von denen man nicht sicher weiß, ob sie existieren, ist eben gerade nicht fair.

"Ich will weder urteilen noch verurteilen, ich wollte nur mal zum nachdenken anregen, ob hier nicht manches ein bischen überbewertet wird... "

Sehr lobenswerter Vorsatz, aber letztlich urteilt jeder bis zu einem gewissen Grad, fürchte ich ;)
Und vergiss nicht: Die Band hat das angestoßen. Es waren nicht die Fans, die plötzlich sich gegen eine der beiden Parteien wandten, sondern die Band (v.a. natürlich Tuomas) wandten sich öffentlich gegen Tarja und stellten sie als "Feindin" dar, und zwangen die Leute damit erst, Stellung zu beziehen. Eine Trennung in zumindest augenscheinlicher Freundschaft hätte garantiert keine solche Fanspaltung ausgelöst.

"zB Anette singt bei the Rasmus mit, mir gefällt ihre Stimme dort und auch das Lied...mag es noch so einfach zugeschnitten sein, ich finde es schön...
muss ich mir nun wie ein Kulturbanause vorkommen??? "

Kapier ich nicht, wer hat sowas gesagt? Natürlich darf jeder schön finden, was er möchte. Jeder kann sagen, ich höre lieber Anette als Tarja. Man kann nur nicht sagen: Anette IST eine bessere Sängerin als Tarja, denn das ist einfach falsch. Ich weiß schließlich auch, dass Tarja nicht Maria Callas ist, nur mag ich eben ihre Musik trotzdem lieber. Und genauso sollte man sich eben auch bei dem The Rasmus-Song im Klaren sein, dass das nicht das orginellste und beste Songwriting aller Zeiten ist. Insofern hab ich da absolut kein Problem mit dir, ich hör auch selbst manchmal gern eher einfach gestricktes Zeug, spricht doch nix dagegen ;-)

Ob Anette jetzt völlig talentlos ist oder nicht...naja.Das lohnt vllt wirklich keinen Streit. Ich finde persönlich, dass sie, da ihr Gesangstalent (selbst wenn wir mal von einem vorhandenen ausgehen) in keiner Hinsicht überragend ist - mal ehrlich, ich hab Leute in meiner Bekanntschaft, die besser singen - und alles an Berühmtheit, was sie hat, verdankt sie der Band. Insofern hab ich nicht das Gefühl, ihr Bewunderung zu schulden...

Earwen wrote on 11.10.2009 at 23:07
@The Riddler: Thank you - sadly, I still didn't get an answer from any NNW-fan. Well, I don't really expect one anymore, but we'll see ;-)

Earwen wrote on 11.10.2009 at 23:10
To the idiot that posted the first comment... I didn't know ostriches could type. Pull your head out of the sand. Nightwish is loved for its music. Not for Cruella De Ville in a HASMAT tent with a matching yellow microphone. It's all about the music.

dreamer bitch wrote on 12.10.2009 at 02:30
I have to wonder how it is possible, if Alex Scholpp is really such a bad guitarist, that he can make a living off leading a guitar school. All musicians that Tarja works with are top professional and highly skilled. In fact I'd say that Alex is an even better guitarist than Emppu. The real difference is in style. Alex' style is more in the vein of alternative rock, Emppu's more in the style of melodic rock or (power) metal. I prefer Emppu's style (and guitar tone) too, but that doesn't have anything at all to do with "better". And just about every opinion I've heard about Tarja's concerts, whether coming from amateur fans, hobby musicians or professional journalists, has respected that crucial difference. It's just the same old discussion about taste (subjective) vs. quality of the music (at least some aspects of which can be judged fairly objectively).

celisajan, nein, es ist eben NICHT fair, es ist alles andere als das, Tarja irgendwelche Fehler nur der "Balance" halber zu unterstellen, ohne dafür ohne auch nur den kleinsten Hauch eines Beweises oder auch nur Hinweises zu haben. Du saugst Dir etwas aus den Fingern, nur aufgrund Deines Grundsatzes "beide Seiten müssen irgendwie schuld sein". Es kann ja theoretisch sein, daß Tarja in Wirklichkeit tatsächlich so eine arrogante Diva ist und ihre Fans insgeheim haßt, wie es ihr (aufgrund des Briefes) viele Leute vorwerfen, aber dann ist sie eine verdammt gute Schauspielerin, weil sie es nämlich NULL zeigt. Und ihr sowas auch nur hypothetisch vorzuwerfen, einfach nur aus Prinzip, ist Schwachsinn.

Außerdem habe ich eher den Eindruck, daß Du Dir Anette (bzw. ihre Stimme) schön redest. Ich selbst kann es nicht beurteilen, da ich Aufnahmen mit ihrer Stimme mittlerweile einfach nur noch meide, da sie mir kein bißchen gefällt (im Gegensatz zu Dutzenden von anderen Sängerinnen aus dem Metalbereich), aber daß sie Tarja weit unterlegen ist, gibst Du ja selbst zu. Und das ist einfach bei weitem nicht genug, und straft die Behauptungen der Band ("genauso gut wie Tarja", "gleicher Tonumfang" etc.) Lügen. Ob es einem gefällt oder nicht - die Gesangslinien von Nightwish sind nun einmal in vielen Fällen schwierig und technisch anspruchsvoll, und eine Sängerin wie Anette ist damit hoffnungslos überfordert und es ist nur zu erwarten, daß das Ergebnis dann grausam klingt (ohne Nachbearbeitung). Die Anmerkung hinsichtlich Sahara ist ja schon Beweis genug, daß Anette die Songs einfach schon technisch nicht hinbekommt. Und das ist einfach die Grundlage für alles, das kann man nicht als nebensächlich abtun. Das ist so, wie wenn Du Chopin-Etüden auf einem Kinderkeyboard spielen sollst, das gar nicht genug Tasten hat. Es geht einfach nicht oder hört sich schlicht furchtbar FALSCH an.

Almagest wrote on 12.10.2009 at 02:49
@Richard

I didn't say that i don't like Tarja. I'm just saying that the music aspect that her solo career embraces isn't my cup of tea. While NW's choice of the new singer in combination with their recent attitude is turning them into e very, very bad joke. At least Tarja still is - and behaves as- a professional with respect towards her fans. You'll understand more things about my opinion for Tarja in my answers to Legeon.

@Legeon

1) That's exactly the a point I made during Tarja's concert. The guitarist of her band really made Emppu seem like a top musician. At least Emppu is a solid, capable and more than enough guitarist for what NW's music needs. The fact that he hasn't enough space to shine because Tuomas needs him to mainly keep the rhythm sections doesn't mean he's a good musician. All those EXCELLENT concerts of old NW were performed with him as a guitarist after all.

2) There are two different points here. I didn't say anything about Tarja's performance. Tarja was and still is an AWESOME singer and performer.
To your other point now. You can't compare Tarja's first solo attempt and NW's first attempt. Tarja was an already achieved musician with more than 8 years in the music industry when she began solo. She had open doors and could cooperate with well known composers and producers plus the experience that she already had. NW when they began were more or less like infants. Noone knew them so it would be hard for them to get noticed by anyone, and they had zero experience in the music industry. What's more their first attempt that can be judged is their first album, AFF, not their demos. And AFF at least for me is an EXCELLENT album. If you think it's so boring that makes you wanna R.I.P. then either you never listened to NW or you just came across them after CC and Once.

3) If you think that the Wishmaster we heard from Tarja's band which is literally without guitar and with less than mediocre keys is good enough for you then I'll pass. I expect more from professional musicians and they just can't get nowhere near the quality it was played by old NW. As for the way that new NW can perform it, they simply can't perform songs likw wishmaster anymore. Not because they can't play the music but only coz Avril (aka Kalomoira aka Olzon) simply can't sing it. In any way.

But still i can't say that i like Wishmaster performed literally only with Drums and voice (those are the only qualities that Tarja's band has to for ATM, whether you like it or not). And that applies to any NW song.

4) Tarja (as i already said) was good and she gave a professional performance. She sang well, she fills the stage with her presence, she really tried to communicate with the crowd (in fact she communicated with the crowd in a better way than she did when she was in NW). But these facts don't make an exciting concert. As for your comment and comparison with new NW concerts i think its pointless. If you didn't notice my opinion about new NW concerts i'll say it once again. Tarja's concert was just a boring one. NW's last concert in Athens (2008) was the worst concert i've ever been to (i remind you that NW WAS my favourite band). Satisfied enough?

5)You forgot to mention Kalomoira's (the real Kalomoira) boobs :-P

6) As I already said I can't say that I'm greatful hearing the great old NW sings performed only with excellent singing and drumming. Since i've been to old NW concerts it really takes a lot more for me to be satisfied and tell you that I like what I Hear. And certainly neither Tarja nor new NW plays the old NW songs as the're supposed to. Each one for the different reasons that i think i have already clearly stated.

y.g. Amorphis tha pas? :-P

Sleeping Sun wrote on 12.10.2009 at 03:10
@Almagest und Earwin

Bitte noch mal zurück lesen:-)
Ich unterstelle es Tarja nicht , ich sage nur es könnte möglich sein, das hin ter den Kulissen etwas passiert sein könnte, was wir hier draussen eben nicht mitbekommen habe, worauf Tuomas hin diesen Mist gebaut hat...
Ich sagte nicht das es so ist!
Und ich muss euch beiden recht geben, wer sagt Anette sei auf gleicher Höhe mit Tarja, dem würde ich auch nicht recht geben!!
Tarja ist definitiv eine andere Liga
und Anette kann da nicht mithalten,
dennoch und das ist eben meine Meinung( und die will ich gar keinem aufzwingen) das ich auch die neuen Lieder auf ihre Art gut finde..und ich sagte auch irgendwo hier..keine Ahnung mehr wo ;-) das ich die alten Songs abgesehen von Romanticide gar nicht mit Anette Stimme mag..alleine Ever Dream war auch für jemanden toleranten wie mich ein echter Schock :-(
Nightwish wollte eine Veränderung sie wussten das sie dadurch auch Fans verlieren würden, und das sich da Leute von der Band abwenden ist völlig verständlich... nur und da gebt ihr mir ja auch soweit recht, ist es nicht ok das das Ganze in einer Hexenjagd ausarten muss...und wenn ihr euch an alle Texte hier noch soweit errinnern könnt, manche hier rennen mit der Forke rum und stechen aber auch in jede Wunde..und sowas finde ich nicht fair!!
Als ich den Rasmus Text einwarf kamen gleich mehrere die mir sagten also dieses Lied sei ja nur schalala..ich hatte dabei nur geschrieben.." ist das tatsächlich Anette?? klingt nett" und gleich wurde wieder alles schlecht geredet und sowas ist eben auch Quatsch...
Leider ist mir auch bewusst das die Band selber schuld ist... aber trotzallem muss man doch nicht dauernd rumhacken..sondern für sich selber sagen ok, mir sagt die Anette nix und die Musik mit ihr ist nix also lass ich es gut sein und gehe andere wege...zumindest nach 4 Jahren sollte es einem doch endlich klar sein,ob er denn Die Band noch als Fan vertreten kann oder eben nicht!!
Das am Anfang die Gemüter überkochten war absolut verständlich und das man sich da drüber aufregte und sich auch verar...fühlte, kann ich auch verstehen...
Und auch als BBB lief war ich nicht grade begeistert(fand ich auch nicht der Burner)
aber ich für meibnen Teil möchte trotzallem noch mehr musikalisches von der Band hören..gerne mehr Gesang von Marco aber ich ich bleibe dabei, die Musik gefälltmir immer noch...eben nicht mehr ganz so überragend und vorallem auch anders aber für mich immer noch hörenswert und ich lasse mich da ungern als dumm bezeichnen nur weil ich eben vielseitiger bin und nicht achso anspruchsvoll;-) in diesem Sinne
Viel Spass beim weiterdiskutieren ich muss mal kurz arbeiten gehen ;-)

celisajan wrote on 12.10.2009 at 09:25
@ Sleeping Sun :
About Tarja's solo career, I understand what you feel. I adore very much her voice, but MWS isn't one of my favorite album. I don't like all the songs, and I must say that the first time I listened to this album I get sooo boring.
But I really like her performance live and I think she's very professional too.
I want to give her another chance because she's becoming more and more talented when NW is turning into a big circus with Ugly Nettie.

Devy wrote on 12.10.2009 at 10:27
@snowman, oh my God, thanks for the video, the audience was SO bored, I see it now and diva is not even moving or smiling, shame to her! Thanks for openning my eyes!!! LOL :P I'm free at last! Running around free!

@dream bitch, I didn't know bitches could type. NW (old one) is loved for good strong music with good strong vocals and for elegant image it had to some sort, though not always, not for drifting to more mainstreamish pop-rock like songs with weak pop-rock vocals and poppish emo-granny style of vocalist!

Siren wrote on 12.10.2009 at 11:42
@Sleeping Sun

From all the comments you posted,i'll answer only the one about her band,since i don't have time,i have to leave to the airport(pao stin Ameriki :P)

I don't know where you were sitting,but from were i was sitting we could hear VERY WELL the guitar and the keys,and they both did a very good job...

ps.I didn't say that AFF is to suicide...I said that their first songs(the 3 piece demo)was boring to death.
You say that it's not the same to compare her with NW at their start because now she is an experienced musician..Yes,as a singer!!!Remember that MWS is her first attempt as a composer.
And you have to be honest,everyone compares her music to NW,but she never said she wants to make music similar to NW.

ps.Mpa,den mporo na po oti m'aresoun...Ntropi mou,all etsi einai :)

Legeon wrote on 12.10.2009 at 12:20
DEB:

"Friday, 9 October 2009
Well...

as always, you can never know how people will vote in shows like Idols etc. Tonight the girl with an amazing voice was taken out and you can see that the chosing of which song to sing is very very important.

My night is filled with lots of hot tea (its really cold outside here...brrr...only 4-5 degrees) and I just want to watch some True Blood now;=)

Tomorrow I want a long sleeping morning but with two hungry cats it´s usually quite impossible;=) Here´s some new photos of the two monsters.

Sleep really well now and lots of warm thoughts to all of you;=)

Posted by Anette Olzon at 23:22 46 comments

Friday and Idols;=)

So, we are back and we had a great day! My son danced with all the girls tonight, they all asked him to dance;=) He is popular, I am proud;=)

I got some nice nice things for us all today and now its TV time and the very first semi finals in Idols. Of course I am checking them out and enjoy to see dear Anders in action;=)

enjoy the evening!
Posted by Anette Olzon at 20:17 "

mermaid wrote on 12.10.2009 at 12:54
DEB:

"Black silk

Good morning;=)

So, yesterday I went with my family to see the dance performance called Black Silk in Malmö where the music is based on our Dark Passion Play album.

I started the afternoon at Lindas salon and fixed the hair. She got free hands and it turned out to be a great cool hair-do;=)

Then we drove down to Malmö to the theatre and there we got some champagne and cider before the show.

Here´s my beautiful mum and me;=) I am wearing a Gucci dress, Helmut Lang leather leggings, shoes from Prada and a little bag from Prada.

When the show started, it was first two other performances and they were both awesome. It was so nice asian lamps hanging from the ceiling and the performers were incredible;=)

Of course I longed for the part after the break with our music and I talked to Jonas Nydesjö, who has re-arranged Tuomas music to fit for the big orchestra and choir and he said it was so exciting to take for instance Emppus guitar melody and think: hmmm..what other instrument can I use for this part? And he was so happy and thrilled about it all;=)

When the music started I was just stunned, from the first note to the last. It was a 45 minute long show and I was mesmerized...I had tears in my eyes the whole show and hearing the choir in Poet, in Eva, in For the heart and especially the whole long arrangement of Meadows of heaven, gave me such goose-bumps that I just sat smiling, joyful and happy for Tuomas incredible music.

When we came out I immediately wrote Tuomas a text and told him how wonderful it was, how great he is and that I really wished he had been there and he answered me and was so happy to hear that it was so wonderful;=)

I couldnt take any photos etc since that was forbidden, so the only thing I have is the rehearsal video they have put out in youtube. For more photos from their web page, click here. All I can say is that I would love to go and see it once again and I will do that if there are tickets available cause it was truly one of the nicest things I have watched and listened to for a long time;=)

Posted by Anette Olzon at 09:41 "

mermaid wrote on 12.10.2009 at 12:56
@celisajan: "Bitte noch mal zurück lesen:-)
Ich unterstelle es Tarja nicht , ich sage nur es könnte möglich sein, das hin ter den Kulissen etwas passiert sein könnte, was wir hier draussen eben nicht mitbekommen habe, worauf Tuomas hin diesen Mist gebaut hat...
Ich sagte nicht das es so ist!! "

Ich habe gerade mal, da ich mich mit Sicherheit an andere Kommentare von dir erinnern konnte, ein bisschen in den letzten Artikeln geblättert. da hattest du zum Beispiel geschrieben:

"I love Tarja and NW and I am not so blind , to see , that both of them make mistakes.."

"all words that Tuomas said and things he did, in the last 4 years, are wrong, and he is the asshole in this story, blabla, Tarja makes mistakes too, realize it!!!!!!"

Hier schreibst du also genau das, was du jetzt bestreitest: Tarja habe *sicher* Fehler gemacht - hast du, abgesehen von Anschuldigungen von den Bandmitgliedern, irgendeinen Beleg dafür, außer dem berühmten "jeder macht Fehler"?!

oder auch:
"sie hat immer wieder betont sie braucht die Jungs nicht, Tuomas machte es ihr leicht und gab ihr die Chance dies zu beweisen..und er übernahm auch noch die Verantwortung und nahm somit den schwarzen Peter auf seine Schultern..."

das hier ist für mich immer noch der krasseste absatz: du unterstellst Tarja erst wiederholte Behauptungen (ohne Beleg!) und verdrehst gleichzeitig Tuomas übelste Tat, nämlich die ganze Rufmordaktion - die du auch selber schon als negativ eingestuft hast - ins Positive, als eine Art Opfer an Tarja oder so!

"Perhaps Anette is just a girlie(an old girlie)..
Tarja is just a woman who knows to treat the fans right, because she is profesional...
Tarja is a good actress...she knows how to play her show..."

Und hier wiederum entschuldigst du Anette mit Naivität o.ä. und unterstellst Tarja, sich nur deshalb richtig zu verhalten, weil sie eine gute Schauspielerin ist.

Du verdrehst somit alles auf Seiten der Band ins Negative ("Tarja wird ihn schon mit iwelchen miesen Aktionen dazu gebracht haben" o.ä.) und alles auf Tarjas Seiten ins Negative ("nur eine gute Schauspielerin" etc.).

Mag sein, dass du nur ein Gegengewicht zu den hier überwiegend Tarja-positiven Kommentaren bilden willst, aber trotzdem:

Was um Himmels Willen soll daran fair sein, automatisch für die eine Seite Entschuldigungen und für die andere Beschuldigungen zu suchen?!

"nur weil ich eben vielseitiger bin und nicht achso anspruchsvoll;-) "

Und hier wiederum unterstellst du uns indirekt, nicht so vielseitig zu sein, weil wir Anette und Newwish nicht mögen. Nun, ich höre Musik aus den verschiedensten Richtungen - Metal, Vokalpop, Musicals, in Ausnahmen sogar Hip Hop (bsp. Thomas D.) und werde trotzdem als zu einseitig bezeichnet, nur weil ich eine unglaubwürdige Band mit nachlassendem Songwriting und einer nicht einmal mittelmäßigen Sängerin nicht mehr hören will. Aha.

PS: und ich heiße Earwen, du schreibst irgendwie immer Earwin :D

Earwen wrote on 12.10.2009 at 13:07
I find it curious to claim that Nightwish can still play their old songs when Jukka and Tuomas have admitted themselves that their skills have gone down and that they can't play the songs from Oceanborn anymore. If at all, they play them more slowly. And Wishmaster is just as fast. I don't want to look up Wishmaster with Anette because I still need my ears but can anyone else tell me what it sounds like now (instrumental parts only)? Somehow I doubt it sounds exactly the way it sounds like on CD (because that would be, uh, boring or something like that).

Almagest wrote on 12.10.2009 at 19:02
On the other hand, I haven't ever noticed that Tarja's band play old Nightwish songs flat-out wrong, or anyone else mention something like that. The mix often leaves a lot to desire, but the instrumental parts are all there and I can't hear anything wrong with them, and patently no-one else can. The only difference is that Alex and Kiko have changed the solos, but not because they are too difficult for them or because they leave notes out out of inability (haha, like Kiko could have trouble playing the guitar parts of NW, Emppu is a joke against him and other metal guitarists, he's hardly a particularly skilled or good one, technically speaking, and he's admitted that himself repeatedly), but because they are too EASY and BORING for them. So this complaint sounds outright ridiculous to me. Perhaps you should point us to YouTube videos where you can hear that Tarja's band plays something objectively wrong, so we can try to follow your complaint.

Almagest wrote on 12.10.2009 at 19:12
By the way, a little quote from the Sonic Cathedral forum (known for being Nightwish-friendly) to show you that it's not just "haters" and "rumour-mongers" who see drama in the band (part of nicknames replaced with asterisks):

"Sonic **** wrote:
There is mumbling within the Ranks of Nightwish....
I actually heard from a reliable source that things aren't working out well within the band.

Time shall tell..."

" Star*****_****** said: I heard the same thing too. The person who told me said that Tuomas was very upset about Anette hiring a seperate manager, but calmed down along the way. When he heard of the solo album he was furious. He's not happy about many things as well as Marco."

Almagest wrote on 12.10.2009 at 20:44
OceanWithin said: "Honnestly, I can't headbang on Nemo properly".

I saw it at the concert and you can headbang just fine to it. I was surprised myself because I didn't remember it being so heavy (but perhaps it was also the way the band played it).

Though a REAL metalhead can headbang to EVERYTHING. Wacken Firefighters anyone? :-D

Earwen said: "Oceanborn is so much better than Once!"

There's even a rule of power metal (found on metalstorm.ee) saying exactly this. Same exact words. Amazing!

Almagest wrote on 12.10.2009 at 23:36
Ragnarök said: "we all know classical music is metal ancestor"

Not quite true. Metal is derived from rock music (psychedelic rock, blues rock, hard rock). I'd say that metal is rock music played in the spirit of classical music, however.

Almagest wrote on 13.10.2009 at 00:04
I'm really surprised noticing that opinions of most people here isn't driven by the love for the music itself, but their "love" (aka bias) for a group (NW) or an artist (Tarja). I really can't understand how can someone who was a NW fan before the break-up can be content just with choosing sides when clearly the music he loved (old NW music) isn't there by none of the two parties. If someone loved the whole (NW+Tarja) how can he now waste his time by supporting the one half and diminishing the other half that he once loved?

The reason I'm telling these is because the whole conflict here seems to me as a matter of preference. Prefering Tarja or NW. And that's the main thought of most people after all coz all fans of new NW are insulting Tarja, and all Tarja fans are insulting NW. So the essence of the conflict is that I prefer Nw to Tarja or I prefer Tarja to NW. This is really absurd to me coz NW are clearly walking (by the Maestro's choice) to a different musical direction (with the choice of a wanna-be pop-star as a singer) than the old NW and Tarja (as her fans are admitting) is also towards a different musical approach both from NNW and ONW. So none of them is similar to the old core of the music we all loved.

Sleeping sun wrote on 13.10.2009 at 04:16
"If someone loved the whole (NW+Tarja) how can he now waste his time by supporting the one half and diminishing the other half that he once loved? "

Because one of the half (NW) was the one that started the whole shit through open letter with its "reasons" and now people see the amount of lies which was brought by NW. They see mainstreamish direction they take, see their vocalist who is "wanna-be pop-star as a singer" with mania about herself who did all the things described in the letter . That's why they diminish it.Besides lots of NNF say that they didn't like first vocalist, so they didn't like the whole thing as you call it.

And the other half ( Turunen) is taking another direction as well,not NNFW or ONW direction, but not that mainstreamish one (in fact many people complain that it is too "classical-like"), she is not acting/singing like "wanna-be pop-star", she acts like a professional clasically trained singer. Understood? So it is matter both of music and attitude from the artist.

Joy wrote on 13.10.2009 at 10:52
I'd say most Tarja fans by far love NW+Tarja as well, even oif they do not like the albums the same.

The crucial difference between NW and Tarja is that NW say that if you do not like their newest offering, you are not a "true fan" and not into the music, only the old vocalist, and that you are basically too dumb or close-minded to appreciate the genius of the masterpiece called DPP, while Tarja does acknowledge that not every NW fan will like her music.

Almagest wrote on 13.10.2009 at 22:14
I'd say most Tarja fans by far love NW+Tarja as well, even if they do not like all the albums the same. (corrected)

Almagest wrote on 13.10.2009 at 22:15
That's rubbish. I think this isn't necessary. All of NW fans have their old albums. They don't need Lokikirja any more.

Skandia wrote on 13.10.2009 at 22:36
@Me: Sorry. Maybe I made a mistake saying that. Ok. But I'm not trying to fight with anyone. I was trying to comment about the topic: The Lokikirja-box and I felt strange when I read all these insulting comments. Just that.

---x---

@Legeon:
First: I'm a woman, so I'm "she", not "he". But it doesn't matter. Well. I said "stop being egocentric" because you guys dont think about the band, just about you. The band is happier now. And they're creating the music that they want to do. Some people think: "This is a great band and they HAVE to do the music I like" and that's not true. And I said "I love", "MY favourte..." and "I think" 'cause this is a place to comment! (But being respectful)
2: I dont wanna read them but in all the pages I visit to get Nightwish information there's a lot of them and when I'm looking for something interesting I find sentences like "F****ING B**CH!!"
3: They're trying to rest and all of you are saying: "This is crap" So, who is making scandals?
4: You can enjoy music just enjoying!
And you can feel emotions: FEELING ;)
5: You're so wrong.
Nightwish (not only tuomas) made a mistake with the open letter. Agreed. But they're human beings who can make mistakes. Have you ever done something bad? Dont tell me you're an angel.
6: Finally I'm not gonna considere the last words 'cause they're absolutely false.

---x---

@Legeon (Again)
?No,"blaming and insulting others" is bad only when people criticize Anette and NW,not when NW fans attack Tarja,for example.?

I didnt say that. Did I?

---x---

@Paradiseseeker: I have explained this so you can read it ;)
And I didnt know about the nickname. I?m gonna change it now, to avoid problems.

---x---

To all of you: Sorry for my english.

|Paradise Seeker| wrote on 15.10.2009 at 19:57
I almost forgot something:

@Paradise Seeker:
"it is not NW fan community here in case you didn't know."
I know this is not a fan community.
But you have to be respectful with people wherever you are, dont you think?

Fairyxcorpse wrote on 15.10.2009 at 20:15
@|Paradise Seeker|,
1.about being happier and blah-blah, people also noticed in some interviews or in life very bored of fake behaviour and knowing how good they are capable of pretendng or lie, not many are ready to blindly believe them. period.
2.When once good music goes into commercial mainstreamish direction many people start to point that out because it is the bad thing, not only because they personally do not like it but because it is artistic degrading.
3. go to some pages about tarja and will find b***h thing there as well, somehow it is perfectly alright there:)
4. well, not all of them are resting and since 100th re-release is announced (again) in these news, then people discuss that.
5. Sorry people can't just enjoy and feel the music if they know what likes behind it (like dramas, scandals,lies, wannabism)
6. NW not only did a ghastly mistake, they put the whole blame through this letter on somebody else, made a total public scapegoat of that person and labeled her, while they tried to look innocent. Such things are remembered.

@Fairyxcorpse, well, NW didn't follow that rule, NNW do not follow that rule. :) Probably they are TOO perfect for that.

$am wrote on 15.10.2009 at 22:01
Amazing! Its all the same crap over and over again...
People start insulting each other, insulting artists,....
instead of just commenting on the news.
Some say that Tarja is childish, some say that Anette is childish,...
but in my opinion some of their fans (Tarja and NW) are the ones who are childish ! Just look at yourself. OMG !

If you dont like Tarja newest album dont listen to it.
If you dont like NW newest album dont listen to it.

Read NW book "Once Upon A Nightwish" and you will understand why they broke up, and what was going on.
There was no future in their partnership, so it was better this way.

-Tarja was leaving anyway, for pursuing a solo career.

-Anette was hired by NW and not the other way around.

-NW was created has a acoustic band , not a Metal one.

-Tuomas still creates awesome music.
(you might not like Anette's voice, but i think you have to agree that the music and lyrics on DPP are awesome)

-NW aren't obliged to create just metal music for you pleasure. (Just like Tarja isnt also).
Some of their greatest songs are ballads.
Kuolema, Sleeping Sun , Meadows of Heaven, The Islander, ...

-If you want to insult anyone (you shouldn't) , insult Tarja husband/manager Marcelo Cabuli who was the main culprit (guilty) for the separation. Read their book.

@mermaid
Stop spamming Anette blog here ! PLEASE !
This forum is about NW music and not Anette's life !

PS:
Whats amazing is that Tarja fanatics dont post messages in her news.For them is far more important spreading hate (here) than love.

"Tarja isn't a religion
Anette isn't a religion
NW isn't a religion"

lmcb wrote on 15.10.2009 at 22:38
@imdb:
"Read NW book "Once Upon A Nightwish" and you will understand why they broke up, and what was going on. "

Now that's great. Read the book that was influenced by only ONE side (NW without Tarja) and includes only one interview with Tarja which was done BEFORE they parted, and you will know the truth! (which is that Marcelo is an evil mafioso and Tarja turned into a selfish diva. Amazing.)
You really believe that book? Congratulations. But why listen to both sides, when it is so much easier this way?

"-Tuomas still creates awesome music.
(you might not like Anette's voice, but i think you have to agree that the music and lyrics on DPP are awesome) "

Well, I disagree. Some of the compositions are good, but some, like Amaranth, are just mediocre pop songs (and don't tell me that some of NW's best songs aren't metal, I know that, but those are ballads, and Amaranth isn't) or boring (like For the heart I once had). And the lyrics are horrible. Self-pity, aggressions, calumnies (The poet and the pendulum, master passion greed, bye bye beatiful, in case you need examples).

And that Tarja was going to leave anyway didn't give them the right to insult her and her husband in public! Any band member is free to leave, and she told the bands more than a year before she wanted to leave, that's not a crime, after all.

And I did post on Tarja's news, but since she doesn't do anything wrong in my opinion, I just say "very good, thank you for the news" or something else and there's no need for discussions.

Earwen wrote on 15.10.2009 at 22:59
Lokikirja is in my Opinion only interesst for new NW Fans... because the most of the being Fans are having the most Albums ;-)
I got them all(incl. the DVDs) and so i don´t need to buy this....

@Earwen mit e und nicht mit i ;-)

"You really believe that book? Congratulations. But why listen to both sides, when it is so much easier this way? "

Du willst doch selber auch nur deine Faktenseite sehen...grins

Nur auf das geschriebene gucken und von Fakten reden..ist keine Kunst
Ich mag vielleicht keine tollen Argumente haben, da mir diese sogenannten Fakten weder in die eine noch in die andere Richtung hilfreich erscheinen, aber immerhin bemühe ich mich in beide Seiten hineinzuversetzen, während viele hier nur von der braven Tarja und dem bösen Rest der Band reden... und dann auch noch sagen wer die andere Seite versucht zu verstehen muss dumm sein oder blind...
Ich habe Tarja nicht unterstellt mit schuld zu sein,denn dazu fehlen mir tatsächlich diese netten Fakten;-) aber ich habe nunmal genug Lebenserfahrung um eben zu wissen das hinter der Bühne ganz andere Dinge laufen als vor dem Publikum gezeigt, geschrieben, gesprochen oder auch eben NICHT gesprochen wird!!!!!!!
Earwen mit e und nicht mit i meint ich würde mich cool und abgeklärte geben(frei wiedergegeben)
und ich sage, lieber so als ständig darauf rum zu hacken das es eben Leute gibt die eben auch mal in der Lage sind Fehler zu verzeihen und nach vorne schauen als ständig in alten Wunden rum zu popeln...
Amaranth klingt poppig..da gebe ich dir recht, aber falls du dich schon länger mit NW beschäftigst, müsstest du auch wissen, das die Band
1. nicht als Metalband anfing
2. mehrere Stile einbringt
3. niemals auch nur irgendjemanden versprochen hat auf ewig nur metal zu spielen!!!!
4. wenn wir uns alle nicht weiter entwickeln würden und auch mal was anderes ausprobieren würden...bis heute kein Rad erfunden wäre!!!!!!!!Was nicht heissen soll das alles neuentwickelte immer gut ist.... aber wer sich nicht bewegt kann eben auch nichts umschmeissen... so ist das( puuh das klingt ja schon wieder voll abgeklärt..grins)

celisajan wrote on 16.10.2009 at 14:34
lmcb you can follow your own advice - you do not like comments here, do not read them :)

And to believe a book which was biased as hell, lol
Dude we are not blind to trust in it as you do, as well as in Tuomas's whinning that Cabuli was a serpant and mafioso and all other crap he said in order to redeem himself.

NW was created like an acoustic band but transformed into metal band, so for the longer part of their history they were metal. If you didn't like that, it is also only your problem.
And I know how many ballads are performed each NNW concert - 1 of them at best or even no ballad at all, it is rare when they include ballads in their setlists. And the fact that they have ballads doesn't mean that it is an excuse to change into commercial mainstream pop-rock or pop-metal. Or according to your logic they should perfrom only ballads now, huh

Tuomas writting on DPP is not all that good, too many mainstream-kind of stuff with cheesy lyrics about himself being the poor lamb :)
And Turunen's fans do post in her topics, so you are wrong again :)

Oliver wrote on 16.10.2009 at 15:39
@celisajan
English please :))

@Oliver
"you can follow your own advice - you do not like comments here, do not read them :) "
Ok . I deserved that. I was just trying to make a point.
That everybody is tired of some posts : the insulting ones.

We can all have a friendly discussion. That calling someone a Greedy bitch , Diva , CrapNette , or a TuomASS , just because we have the freedom and the anonymity of the net, isnt the adult way to do it.
I think we should stick to the subject of the news or sticking to music comments. And not going on a personal vendetta against Tarja, Anette , or anyone else.

But sometimes it happens. You just have to read the previous comments.
Some posters have there heart pumping too fast :)
They are too much in love with Tarja or with Anette.
And can't stand each other.
They are just musicians for God sake !
One thing we have to agree...we all love music, but we shouldn't let it blindfold us or make us deaf.

"And the fact that they have ballads doesn't mean that it is an excuse to change into commercial mainstream pop-rock or pop-metal"
Every artist has the freedom to pursuit the career and the style that he fills is the best one for him. Tarja did it, NW did it, and even Bruce Dickinson did it [ @Legeon ;) ]
We dont know if it will the best choice, but every artist should try to develop his art, to grow,...
I dont like Tarja new style , but that doesnt make it bad its just different, i rather see it with NW.
Sometimes we have to take a step back so we can take 2 forward.
I also hope that NW and Tarja write better music each time.

" on DPP is not all that good, too many mainstream "
You are right... but we can also say the same about Once.
Listen to it carefully.
It was a change of course ... we dont have to agree with it, but we have to respect it.
And a civilized discussion does it ! Would you agree ?

I like old NW but also new NW. There are good and there are bad musics in all albums. Its a matter of personal taste. By the way i'm not a headbanger so my taste goes mainly towards the mainstream metal, thats why i prefer Once and DPP.

@Earwen
"like Amaranth, are just mediocre pop songs"
I agree that Amaranth isn't Metal, its just mainstream rock.
Personally i think the best songs of DPP are: The Poet (...) , 7 Days to the Wolves, and a softer music.... The Islander.

lmcb wrote on 16.10.2009 at 18:51
"-If you want to insult anyone (you shouldn't) , insult Tarja husband/manager Marcelo Cabuli who was the main culprit (guilty) for the separation. Read their book. "

You're a very very good sheep congratulation ;)
Their propaganda still makes a good job in fan's mind.

Devy wrote on 16.10.2009 at 19:12
By the way, a little quote from the Sonic Cathedral forum (known for being Nightwish-friendly) to show you that it's not just "haters" and "rumour-mongers" who see drama in the band (part of nicknames replaced with asterisks):

"Sonic **** wrote:
There is mumbling within the Ranks of Nightwish....
I actually heard from a reliable source that things aren't working out well within the band.

Time shall tell..."

" Star*****_****** said: I heard the same thing too. The person who told me said that Tuomas was very upset about Anette hiring a seperate manager, but calmed down along the way. When he heard of the solo album he was furious. He's not happy about many things as well as Marco."

This is very interresting but can we really trust this ? I mean, these informations can be reliable ?

Devy wrote on 16.10.2009 at 19:16
@celisajan:
"@Earwen mit e und nicht mit i ;-) "

genau :D danke :)

"Du willst doch selber auch nur deine Faktenseite sehen...grins "

Da irrst du dich. Tatsächlich war ich anfangs eher auf Seiten der Band und habe erst allmählich und wegen genauerer Recherche meine Meinung geändert. Ich habe haufenweise Interviews gelesen von der Band und natürlich den berühmten Brief + die Antwort auf Tarjas, und bevor du mir jetzt vorwirfst da voreingenommen drangegangen zu sein - ich hab es auch geglaubt! Anfangs. Ich fand aber (und finde auch heute noch), dass, selbst wenn jeder Satz des Briefes etc. stimmt (was natürlich von vornherein Quatsch ist, da der Brief auch selbst Widersprüche enthält), das immer noch keine solche Rufmordaktion rechtfertigt. Die Frau hatte doch keinen Mord begangen, dass man die Weltbevölkerung vor ihr hätte warnen müssen, sie war lediglich arrogant geworden, was natürlich sch****, aber doch bei der Stimme und dem Erfolg und den sie anbetenden Fans nicht vollkommen unverständlich war. Insofern stand ich zwar auf NW's Seite und gegen Tarja, blieb aber etwas kritisch. Daher habe ich mir eben auch die andere Seite angeguckt - soll heißen, Tarjas Pressekonferenz, Marcelos Antworten etc. ( dauert Stunden, ist eher langweilig und größtenteils auf Englisch - hast du dir das alles sorgfältig angehört und durchgelesen? Das wäre fair. ) Und als mir schließlich auffiel, dass ich auf beiden Seiten Behauptungen hatte, aber kein einziger Fakt darauf hindeutete, dass NW recht hatte - dagegen mehrere auf das Gegenteil - habe ich daraus geschlossen, dass Tarjas Version die weitaus wahrscheinlichere ist. Was soll daran schlecht sein?

Ganz abgesehen davon musst selbst du zugeben, dass eine Behauptung wie "Lest das Buch und ihr kennt die Wahrheit" totaler Quatsch ist. Eigentlich müsstest GERADE du mit deinem ständigen "wir-werden-nie-die-ganze-Wahrheit-kennen" das als Quatsch verurteilen - aber komisch, du greifst irgendwie doch lieber wieder die Leute auf Tarjas Seite an als die auf der Band, wie es scheint.

"Nur auf das geschriebene gucken und von Fakten reden..ist keine Kunst"

Aber immer noch besser, als seine Behauptungen nur auf Mutmaßungen zu stützen!

"Ich mag vielleicht keine tollen Argumente haben, da mir diese sogenannten Fakten weder in die eine noch in die andere Richtung hilfreich erscheinen, aber immerhin bemühe ich mich in beide Seiten hineinzuversetzen, während viele hier nur von der braven Tarja und dem bösen Rest der Band reden"

Ich habe in meinem letzten Beitrag mehrere Beiträge von dir zitiert, die eindeutig zeigen, dass du dich keineswegs in beide Seiten hineinversetzt, sondern im Gegenteil alles Schlechte auf Seiten der Band und alles Gute auf Seiten von Tarja relativierst - nie umgekehrt! Ich wiederhole also meine Frage:
Was soll daran fair sein, für die eine Seite Beschuldigungen, für die andere Entschuldigungen zu suchen?

Beantworte bitte die Frage, oder beweise mir, dass du *nicht* polarisierst - wie ich meiner Meinung nach mit den zitierten Posts eindeutig gezeigt habe. Aber ich lasse mich gern vom Gegenteil und deiner Unparteilichkeit überzeugen. In dem Falle möchte ich aber sehen, wo du Tarja mal genauso intensiv gegen alle Anschuldigungen verteidigt hast wie die Band.

"Ich habe Tarja nicht unterstellt mit schuld zu sein,denn dazu fehlen mir tatsächlich diese netten Fakten;-) "

genau das hast du, wie gezeigt, in mehreren Posts getan.

"aber ich habe nunmal genug Lebenserfahrung um eben zu wissen das hinter der Bühne ganz andere Dinge laufen als vor dem Publikum gezeigt, geschrieben, gesprochen oder auch eben NICHT gesprochen wird!!!!!!! "

Es ist vollkommen okay, die Möglichkeit, dass Tarja Mitschuld hat, nicht vollkommen auszuschließen, aber du stellst diese Möglichkeit, wenn nicht als sicher, so doch zumindest als wahrscheinlicher als das Gegenteil dar, und, was schlimmer ist, stellst diese Meinung als irgendwie hochwertiger da als unsere, obwohl eben unsere auf Argumenten und deine auf Mutmaßungen basiert.

"Amaranth klingt poppig..da gebe ich dir recht, aber falls du dich schon länger mit NW beschäftigst, müsstest du auch wissen, das die Band
1. nicht als Metalband anfing "

Nein, sondern als Band, die stimmungsvolle Lagerfeuermusik macht - trifft das auf Amaranth etc. etwa zu?

"2. mehrere Stile einbringt
3. niemals auch nur irgendjemanden versprochen hat auf ewig nur metal zu spielen!!!! "

Natürlich haben sie das nicht versprochen, aber wir dürfen sie trotzdem dafür kritisieren. Ich würde sie auch kritisieren, wenn sie sich jetzt Shakira als Leadsängerin holen würden, auch wenn sie nie versprochen haben, es nicht zu tun.

Außerdem, wenn Popeinflüsse nichts schlimmes sind, warum hat Tuomas dann so dermaßen angepisst reagiert als er mit der Behauptung konfrontiert wurde, dass DPP sehr viel poppiger als die früheren Alben sei??

"4. wenn wir uns alle nicht weiter entwickeln würden und auch mal was anderes ausprobieren würden...bis heute kein Rad erfunden wäre!!!!!!!!Was nicht heissen soll das alles neuentwickelte immer gut ist.... aber wer sich nicht bewegt kann eben auch nichts umschmeissen... so ist das( puuh das klingt ja schon wieder voll abgeklärt..grins)"

Kein Mensch hat von ihnen verlangt, 10 Oceanborns hinternander rauszubringen. Die Kritik gilt nicht Weiterentwicklung im allgemeinen, sondern der Entwicklung in Richtung Popmetal-songs mit Popsängerin, die dann durch Orchester dazu gebracht werden sollen, möglichst bombastisch zu klingen. Wie du gesagt hast, Entwicklung kann auch zu etwas Schlechterem führen, und wenn man positive Entwicklungen loben darf, darf man jawohl auch schlechte Entwicklungen kritisieren, oder?

@imcdb:
"I agree that Amaranth isn't Metal, its just mainstream rock.
Personally i think the best songs of DPP are: The Poet (...) , 7 Days to the Wolves, and a softer music.... The Islander. "

Even though I don't like Dark Passion Play very much at all, this is still a good choice in my opinion :)
We agree on Amaranth, and I think that the strophes (is that the right word? you know, the part Anette sings ;-) ) of Bye Bye Beautiful are very pop-like, too, while the chorus is just stupid. To that, it's very similar to Wish I had an angel - which I didn't like - and though I can accept one ore two pop-like songs with rediculous lyrics on Once because of Tarja's voice (though I'm not happy with them, of course), I don't see why it was necessary for them to copy themselves by putting a similar song with Anette's singing and horrible lyrics on their next album.
That's just an example to show that, yes, Once was pop-like already, but Dark Passion Play's even worse. Once still has the better voice (though Tarja's singing isn't as good as usual) and some very good songs (Ghost Love Score, The Siren, Kuolema tekee taiteilijan...). And the bad songs are bad, of course, but at least they aren't copies of other bad songs on their older albums yet.

And I think that The poet and the pendulum has some good parts, but all in all it is too much divided into many parts that don't belong to each other ( that sounds wrong to me, but I don't know how to say it in an other way :D ), the lyrics are too full of self-pity and arrogance and, of course, I don't like Anette's voice that much. So it isn't half as good as Gost Love Score in my opinion. 15 minutes and a big orchestra don't make it a great song.

However, I still think that you chose some of the best songs on Dark Passion Play.

Sorry for my english :)

Earwen wrote on 16.10.2009 at 20:06
@Devy
As you wroted : "Time shall tell..."

Any band which stays at the spotlight of media for too long
will became a target of rumours eventually.

Let us see how the rest of 2009 and 2010 will go, lets wait for the album of Anette, and then we shall see.

"Time shall tell..."

There's a proverb...
"There's no smoke without fire"

lmcb wrote on 16.10.2009 at 20:16
@Imcb

Its hard for me to write in english...I didn´t find the right words ..and some people here playing with the words of others..so I must be careful of what Iam write ;-)

I am totally agree with you! :-)

Both(Tuomas and the boys and their management and Tarja and her manager) have their reasons about their doing!!!!
And we are not their Judges, we are the People who hear this musik!No one of us must life with one of them!

My personal problem is, the long time to 2011...the new album...I want it now...:-)
And @ all who are scared about the new album...Good news for them:
They don´t need to buy it...;-)

celisajan wrote on 16.10.2009 at 20:25
@Earwen ;-)

Das Problem ist...du hast sogar recht, wenn du sagst das ich da tatsächlich obwohl ich unparteiisch sein möchte, doch Partei ergreife, ohne es selber bemerken zu wollen ;-)

Und du hast auch recht wenn du sagst das ich nicht genug oder schwache Argumente habe
aber ich will es dir mal so sagen:
Wenn ich ständig und dauernd und das schon seit 4 jahren, egal wohin ich schaue immer wieder die gleichen Kritiken höre und immer wieder sofern ich ein freundliches Wort für Anette oder die neueren Lieder habe, sofort von Tarja Jüngern zerrissen werde weil ich ja blind sein müsste und was an den Ohren haben müsste wenn ich diesen Popkram immer noch höre...dann fange ich langsam aber sicher an auch zu zu beissen..wenn auch auch nicht so gut beissen kann...
Wenn ich also in diese Schiene gedrängt werde dann muss ich diesem Image auch gerecht werden..grins!!

Ich mag die neueren Lieder..denn ich höre auch gerne mal was poppigeres und nicht so schwer verdauliches
(bitte nicht zu poppig, das dann auch wieder nicht, grins!!)

Schau mal, ich schimpfe auf niemanden der Tarja gerne hört , und sage ihm wer so einer doofen arroganten Kuh noch zuhört ist ein Idiot..umgekehrt wird das aber denen die immer noch NW hören weil ihnen eben diese Musik immer noch gefällt( wenn auch anders als erwartet und gewohnt) ständig an den Kopf geknallt

Ich weiss das du sowas nicht tust,und ich weiss auch das du durchdacht und auch geguldig schreibst aber wenn du dir die letzten paar News hier und deren Kommentare alle gelesen hast weisst du von was ich rede...

( und verrat mich bitte nicht weiter...ich bin der Meinung mit Tarja als Sängerin wäre die Band zumindest vom musikalischen her besser dran...Tarja steht dieser Band besser..nein stand..denn mittlerweile passt sie da auch nicht mehr rein!!
Anette kommt mir manchmal vor wie eine Marionette aus einem Kasperltheater... dennoch höre ich auch ihre Stimme recht gerne und steh auch dazu!

Und um auf das eigentliche Thema hier zurück zu greifen...Lokikirja ...
wenn es da noch was in der Box gäbe was ich nicht schon hätte...ok aber das ist doch alles nur aufgewärmt..und nur für Neulinge oder Hardcore -alles -Sammler interessant...
Das macht mir leider auch den Eindruck als wöllte man hier ein Kuh leer melken....:-(

celisajan wrote on 16.10.2009 at 22:54
Imcb

Personal vendetta was started by NW with that insulting and unfriendly letter, so blame them for that.
Bruce Dickinson didn't become a poppish commercial mainstreamish artist, Turunen also didn't, her stuff is too classical-like for mainstream lovers, but recent NW fits very well into commercial mainstreamish music, and actually you are a living proof of that , saying that you love "mainstream" things and point out Once and DPP, as Once already had signs of that a lot and DPP went even worse. Mostly NNF are fans of poppish or mainstream kind music or music that is very close to it , no wonder huh.

And as you pointed out "there's no smoke without fire" ,so that's why people (not blind fans) do not believe into that overplayed NW's cheer .

Oliver wrote on 16.10.2009 at 23:07
@Imcb

I like your comments and I agree with you.It's nice to read comments from persons who have brains and common sense!

Usually it's stupid to argue about music because everybody has own taste and freedom to pick up the things what ever he or she like.If you don't agree or like same music what other people do you can still respect artists and other people so that way you get respect too!I have said many times here that the music is a happy thing and not the end of the world!

About that Amaranth song Tuomas said:I like to make these long epic songs but sometimes we have to make also these "radio format songs"...To me that's a well made standard song but not the "soul" of Nightwish.After all DPP album is a great work!

KEEP ON ROCKING!

Jimmie wrote on 17.10.2009 at 02:30
@celisajan

Your english is ok. We understand it.

If you have any problems use Google Translate :P

lmcb wrote on 17.10.2009 at 15:37
Hello people,i'm speaking from usa...It's kicking ass here in Florida,i love it!!!

Anyway,i was having some free time and went through this on Anette's blog:

"I love my little red nose, my eyes and my legs. I also love that I am en empathic person, I listen and care about others and I am a good friend."

Is this what her life coach tells her?
"you are sooo awesome,you are lovely,you are beautiful,you are great..."

All these words are what all modest,humble and down to earth people say?Interesting...

ps.This girl needs some serious help from an expert.And to stop watching Sex And The City.
What she has is the Carrie Bradshaw syndrom-it explains everything.The obsessive shopping,the needs to hire a personal assistant,the so-modest idea about herself...It's all there.

Legeon wrote on 17.10.2009 at 19:43
"I like to make these long epic songs but sometimes we have to make also these "radio format songs"..."

Lol, Amaranth is not the only radio format song, half of DPP are radio format mainstream songs. Like BBB, COHLB, FTHIOH,WBTN... So that's why DPP is not such a good album at all.

Wilska wrote on 17.10.2009 at 19:49
NW tried to pretend once that music comes first for them, but in fact it is seen now that money comes first for them,lol

Oceansold wrote on 17.10.2009 at 19:53
"I love my little red nose, my eyes and my legs. I also love that I am en empathic person, I listen and care about others and I am a good friend."

It is like "me,me,me, I,I,I, myself,myself,myself, look at me I'm so perfect". Modest adult people wouldn't write such stuff about themselves - it is too childish and silly.
She has narcissistic personality disorder.

Z. wrote on 17.10.2009 at 20:08
@celisajan:
Schön, dann scheinen wir uns ja jetzt mehr oder weniger geeinigt zu haben ;-)

Ich versteh dann jetzt zumindest den Weg, wie du zu deinen Behauptungen kommst - ich kann das auch irgendwie nachvollziehen, aber richtig ist es trotzdem nicht. Du kannst nicht, weil einige Tarja- oder zumindest NW+Tarja-Fans dich angreifen, deshalb derart in Abwehrhaltung gehen, bis du eben anfängst, Tarja selbst Fehler anzudichten und deshalb für die Band Partei zu ergreifen - und schon gar nicht das dann als Beispiel für Fairness verkaufen ;-)
Es gibt schließlich keinen Zusammenhang zwischen der Tatsache, dass du Newwish immer noch gerne hörst und dem Trennungskrieg^^

Ich hab natürlich auch kein Problem damit, dass du (oder wer auch immer^^) Newwish gerne hörst, da du ja nicht (wie viele andere Newwish-Fans) gleichzeitig DPP als unglaublichen kompositorischen Schritt nach vorne, reinen Metal und Anette als die bessere Sängerin verkaufst. Das ist es nämlich, was mir immer auf den Keks geht ;)

"Schau mal, ich schimpfe auf niemanden der Tarja gerne hört , und sage ihm wer so einer doofen arroganten Kuh noch zuhört ist ein Idiot..umgekehrt wird das aber denen die immer noch NW hören weil ihnen eben diese Musik immer noch gefällt( wenn auch anders als erwartet und gewohnt) ständig an den Kopf geknallt"

Ich weiß, dass das jetzt blöd und nach "mit 2 Maßstäben messen" klingt, aber: das ist nicht so richtig zu vergleichen. Schließlich gibt es nicht den geringsten Beleg dafür, dass Tarja arrogant und dumm ist, während Anette selbst ständig Belege für ihre, ähm, Girlie-Mäßigkeit (mir fällt kein Wort ein XD) liefert, es zu viele schlechte Liveaufnahmen von ihr gibt und man auch begründen kann, warum DPP eben "poppiger" als die älteren Alben klingt. Ich finde es natürlich nicht gut, sofort auf jeden loszugehen, der DPP gerne hört - aber das ist zumindest immer noch etwas besser zu begründen als das von dir genannte Beispiel für eine Tarja-Beleidigung.

"Ich weiss das du sowas nicht tust,und ich weiss auch das du durchdacht und auch geguldig schreibst aber wenn du dir die letzten paar News hier und deren Kommentare alle gelesen hast weisst du von was ich rede... "

Danke für das Kompliment :D Ich weiß, was du meinst - aber woanders wird weit übler (weil unbegründeter) über Tarja gelästert. Und auch hier gibt es öfters solche Posts - und auf die reagierst du eben im Gegensatz zu den Nightwish-beleidigenden Posts nicht ;-) und das hatte ich eben kritisiert.

Also dann - einigen wir uns darauf, dass man Tarja keine sichere Mitschuld unterstellen sollte, das aber auch nicht vollkommen unmöglich ist (dann unterscheiden wir uns nur noch darin, wie hoch wir die Wahrscheinlichkeit dafür einschätzen ;-) ) und aggressives und beleidigendes Verhalten auf beiden Seiten zu verurteilen ist? :-)

Darüber hinaus ist Tarja die bessere Sängerin im Vergleich zu Anette und die "old era" herausragender als die neue - aber darüber waren wir ja glaub ich von Anfang an einer Meinung. ;-)

Earwen wrote on 17.10.2009 at 22:13
"Darüber hinaus ist Tarja die bessere Sängerin im Vergleich zu Anette und die "old era" herausragender als die neue - aber darüber waren wir ja glaub ich von Anfang an einer Meinung. ;-)"

Yes Iam totally agree with you!!
Unprofitable is Anettes Blog.....
She makes too much blabla in it and so the people find enough to talk and mock about it.Sad!!
Sie sollte sich lieber zurückhalten und mit guten Liedern auf sich aufmerksam machen anstatt mit den Labels ihrer Klamotten, so was finde ich auch ziemlich doof..manchmal ist schweigen eben besser als reden...aber gut das wir mal darüber gesprochen haben :-)...für mich ist das Thema somit erstmal leergequatscht..ich warte auf neue Neuigkeiten..vielleicht liest man sich da ja wieder über den Weg...um weiter diskutieren zu können:-)

celisajan wrote on 17.10.2009 at 23:44
I want Anette to show pics of her brand undewear in her blog or her sex videos!!

TT fan wrote on 18.10.2009 at 22:08
@TT fan

You said: I want Anette to show pics of her brand undewear in her blog or her sex videos!!

Why? That old fart must be disgusting naked

Ragnarök wrote on 19.10.2009 at 00:39
@Ragnarök ,
Because all the greatest singers like Britney Spears and Paris Hilton showed people their underwear and released their sex tapes online. And they even showed themselves without wearing any underwear. I don't understand you Ragnarök why wouldn't you like a glimpse of that?

TT fan wrote on 19.10.2009 at 10:44
@TT fan
You said:

"Because all the greatest singers like Britney Spears and Paris Hilton showed people their underwear and released their sex tapes online. And they even showed themselves without wearing any underwear. I don't understand you Ragnarök why wouldn't you like a glimpse of that?"

"Greatest singers" hahahhaha thats funny I think "Famous talentless whores" its more accurate.

And you are right about the fact that it would be funny to see her make a fool out of herself. But see her naked like in a magazine or something, well... disgusting

Ragnarök wrote on 19.10.2009 at 18:42
|Paradise Seeker| said: "The band is happier now. And they're creating the music that they want to do."

I'm not at all sure that is really the case.

|Paradise Seeker| said: "Nightwish (not only tuomas) made a mistake with the open letter. Agreed. But they're human beings who can make mistakes. Have you ever done something bad? Dont tell me you're an angel."

You're missing a crucial part: Nightwish have never admitted having made a mistake, never revoked the accusations in the Letter or the Book, and never asked Tarja's and Marcelo's forgiveness. They have not made a mistake - they are still perpetuating slander. They are still selling the Book and the Songs. They have taken back SQUAT.

Remember: Slander is a CRIME. All the slander perpetuated about Tarja and Marcelo on the Net and elsewhere by all kinds of people (from devoted haters to casual observers and even totally random people who aren't even familiar with the music in the first place), and PUBLICLY by the band (through the Letter, the Book, in interviews and through selling and playing "anti-songs"), picked up in press reports and on commercial websites (which is NOTHING like comments by anonymous Internet users on some website, which are not taken seriously by the general public anyway, if they are even noticed) is SERIOUSLY damaging Tarja's and Marcelo's professional careers, that is, their way to earn a LIVING. Can you even imagine what that meansMEANS?

They cannot even sue Nightwish because that would be interpreted as admitting guilt. A damaged reputation is hard to fix. Internet may not be serious business (in general), but this is.

lmcb: I don't listen to NW's new album.

I have read the Book and it is a horrible piece of propaganda.

Yes, Tarja was planning to leave (which she had been before in the Wishmaster era, but evil Marcelo persuaded her to stay!), but that is no excuse for what NW did with that blasted letter.

No, I do not have to agree that the music and lyrics on DPP are awesome, thank you very much. What, suddenly I am not allowed to have a taste of my own anymore?

In fact, I was gravely disappointed by the lyrics to the chorus of TPATP even at a time when I didn't know anything about the new vocalist and was still a huge fan and anticipating DPP like nothing else, and didn't care about Tarja's album. I thought the lyrics sounded awkward and even ridiculous. I did not like the lyrics that were posted later, either. I found Eva and the samples of Amaranth, MPG and 7 Days to the Wolves bland and uninspiring, and liked them less and less each time I listened to them. Everything sounded fake and pretentious.

I long refused to even read Marcelo's Answers because I mistrusted him deeply. Then I felt cheated.

Are NW an acoustic band now? No. Their music now has nothing to do with that of the demos, or even the acoustic songs of Angels Fall First, or indeed the others. NW did not start out as a pop rock-ish band, but as a young band from the middle of nowhere making quite unusual and fascinating music.

Tuomas was offended when a reporter said that DPP sounded "poppy" to him and insisted that DPP is 100% metal.

Also, Nightwish have gone on and on about how they, as opposed to Tarja, are supposedly in it only for the music and not for the money, and not at all "commercial".

I know people who have been loyal to NW for years after the release of DPP, but eventually decided not to go to their concerts anymore because they do not enjoy their performances anymore.

No, I won't insult Marcelo, because I'm sure he's not responsible. If anything, what he did was in the interest of the whole band, not just Tarja's (better conditions).

celisajan: Verstehst Du echt den Unterschied nicht zwischen einer Band, die experimentiert und sich entwickelt und einer, die "kommerziell wird", das heißt, sich an den Mainstream anpaßt, ihre Fans für neue eintauscht, und allen möglichen Kommerzmist wie diese Lokikirja-Box mitmacht (von dem sie ja auch profitiert)?

Jedenfalls glaube ich nicht, daß Metallica je so weit gegangen sind, zu solcher Idiotie, daß sie Dave Mustaine vorgeworfen hätten, geldgierig und kommerziell zu sein, während sich selbst als das Muster der Authenzität bewerben. Was NW tun, setzt noch einen drauf, und viele Fans fühlen sich von der Band verarscht und mit dem Stinkefinger bedacht!

(Und Tarja ist hinsichtlich ihres Stils immer ehrlich gewesen und hat ihre Musik nie "unkommerziell" oder "puren Metal" oder irgendsowas genannt. Sie hat dem Urteil der Hörer gegenüber immer Respekt gezeigt und die Leute, denen ihre Musik nicht gefällt, nie herabgewürdigt.

In English: Do you understand the difference between experimenting and evolving as a band, and "going commercial", that is, adapting to the mainstream, swapping their fans for new ones, and taking part in all kinds of commercial crap like this Lokikirja box (that the band profit from, as well)?

At least I think Metallica have never gone to such lengths of idiocy of blaming Dave Mustaine for being greedy and commercial-minded while promoting themselves as the paragon of authenticity. What NW do adds insult to injury!, and many fans feel like the band keeps taking the piss out of them and giving the finger, too!

(And Tarja has always been honest about her style, never called her music "uncommercial" or "pure metal" or anything. She has always shown respect towards the judgment of the listeners and never put people down for not liking her music.

It's not a crime in itself to enjoy mainstream music, though the fact that it is hard to avoid it in daily life is sure annoying for people who don't, and the fact that it is the major labels with their mainstream artists who have ruined the music industry and keep making life harder for other musicians.

One thing that I find comforting, though, are signs that Tarja is gaining more and more respect as a performer lately, with people like Mike Terrana and Kiko Loureiro mentioned with "(Tarja)" as a remark. By the looks of it, Tarja is more well-known than Masterplan or Angra in Germany and other places.

Devy, I've given the quote from the Sonic Cathedral forum only to make a point about rumours, that's all.

Almagest wrote on 20.10.2009 at 03:05
You know what - I was so ridiculous back then - I didn't want to read Marcelo's Answers because I secretly feared they would change my opinion and make me confused about whom to believe!

Almagest wrote on 20.10.2009 at 04:57
@Almagest
da du Deutsch verstehst ;-) hast du sicherlich meine letzten Posts an Earwen gelesen.
Um ehrlich zu sein, ich bin definitiv auch nicht begeistert von den Machenschaften rundrum..allerdings gehöre ich zu den Leuten welche eben die neuen Lieder auch mögen auch wenn ihnen viel fehlt(ich bin nicht taub ..auch ich höre so was raus;-) )
Ich hätte mich gar nicht gross für NW eingesetzt, wenn ich nicht überall wo ich drei freundliche Worte für Anette oder die Band finde , jedesmal runtergemacht werden würde, weil ich wohl zu doof bin um echt gutes von Schlechtem zu unterscheiden...
Ehrlich gesagt finde ich es auch nicht toll wenn Tarja die alten Lieder mit der neuen Band singt..ihre Stimme ist immer noch klasse, aber mit NW klang es insgesamt für mich besser(my opinion)
Ich weiss das October and April kein Reisser ist aber Anettes Stimme klingt klasse in diesem Lied
Ich habe im Normalfall gar kein Problem wenn Leute sagen das ist MIR zu doof das mag ICH nicht, aber das ist kein Grund andere schlecht zu reden nur weil sie es eben trotzallem noch hören!!
Und ich habe dann im Nachhinein gemerkt das ich dann auch anfange mich für diese Seite mehr einzusetzen und dann ein Stückweit selber unfair werde, einfach weil ja von allen Seiten hier geschosswen wurde..mermaids posts über Anette Blog..sind echt unnötig, wir wissen hier alle das Anette nie eine echte Dame mit echtem Anspruch wird...
aber trotzallem finde ich ihre Stimme in einigen Songs recht gut, und ich finde das ist nicht strafbar ;-)
GLS sollte sie definitiv nicht singen...sowas sollte bestraft werden;-)
Wenn sie Solo irgendwann mal ihren Stil gefunden hat, verlässt sie vielleicht NW von sich aus... wer weiss

Lokikirja ist mir persönlich auch sinnlos und ich sehe es auch als reine Geldmache...aber ich muss und werde es ja auch nicht kaufen..und wer es tut , der wird schon wissen warum er Geld dafür ausgeben will..
(sorry I won´t translate it in english, its for Almagest and my time ist too short today for those things)

celisajan wrote on 20.10.2009 at 11:07
celisajan: Ich wiederhole den zentralen Punkt noch mal auf deutsch:

Tuomas bildet sich extrem viel ein auf seine "kunstvolle", "authentische" und "unkommerzielle", "100% Metal"-Musik mit "tiefsinnigen" Texten und macht andere Leute runter, die seiner Meinung nach nicht so tolle Songwriter und Texter sind wie er.

Selbst wenn Du seine Musik immer noch gut findest, mußt Du die Diskrepanz zwischen seinen Aussagen und der Realität anerkennen, vor allem, weil er keine Skrupel hatte, seine "Authentizität" und "künstlerische Überlegenheit" gegen gewisse andere Leute einzusetzen, um ihre Karrieren zu ruinieren. Kein Wunder, daß gewisse andere Leute und die, denen sie am Herzen liegen, verbittert sind.

Hoffe, das war jetzt deutlich genug.

Almagest wrote on 20.10.2009 at 18:20
Sprich: Wenn man seinen vermeintlichen "künstlerischen Anspruch", der in Wirklichkeit alles andere ist (eher die Ausnutzung der Naivität von Teenagern), so demonstrativ vor sich herträgt, und dafür bereit ist, alles zu tun, muß man damit leben, daß man scharf kritisiert und verspottet wird.

Egal, ob der Kurs zum Mainstream hin nun eher Tuomas' Idee war oder die von Management oder Label - kein Künstler wird zum Ausverkauf gezwungen, oder gar dazu, diesen zu leugnen.

Almagest wrote on 20.10.2009 at 18:31
@Ragnarök
Well, excuse me but doesn't being metal mean to be whore as well? And why do you call them talentless? They have cunt and that is a talent :)
And why it would be awful to see her naked in magazine, I see her naked almost every night in my dreams, in my shower, and even sometimes when I pee :)

TT fan wrote on 20.10.2009 at 21:02
"Sprich: Wenn man seinen vermeintlichen "künstlerischen Anspruch", der in Wirklichkeit alles andere ist (eher die Ausnutzung der Naivität von Teenagern), so demonstrativ vor sich herträgt, und dafür bereit ist, alles zu tun, muß man damit leben, daß man scharf kritisiert und verspottet wird. "
(das ist vom Prinzip her völlig ok)
aaaabeeeer..

..wenn man trotzdem weiterhin seine Lieder hören mag, weil es einem egal was der Kerl sonst so treibt, weil man das eben nicht persönlich an sich ranlässt, weil man eben sagt, er greift ja mich nicht persönlich an sondern ruiniert doch nur seinen eigenen Ruf(was definitiv eben sein Problem ist), dann ist man noch lange kein dummer Teenager oder blind oder geistig nicht auf der Höhe,..dann hat man einfach nur genug Abstand zur Situation an sich und man will einfach nur die Lieder gerne hören..seien sie nun poppig oder egal was auch immer...
Und solche Leute anzugreifen, finde ich einfach nur arrogant und auch dumm
Ihr nehmt euch raus über den Charakter anderer zu urteilen...ihr sagt Tuomas spielt mit seinen Fans und nimmt diese nicht für voll(frei übersetzt)
Ich nehmt ja andere Menschen selber nicht für voll und ihr lästert und zieht über Menschen her, von denen ihr glaubt sie seien dumm nur weil sie noch was gutes finden ..
Und genau deshallb solltet ihr euch mal nicht so weit über Tuomas stellen...wer im Glashaus sitzt...
Mermaids Geläster ist anmassend und mies und hat nichts mit konstruktiver Kritik zu tun..somit werden hier andere für Dinge nieder gemacht während das tolle Richtergremium hier selber nur am abrotzen ist..

Ich hoffe DAS war nun deutlich genug!!!

Nochmal:
Ich bin auch nicht begeistert vom tun der Band und auch von Anettes Art..aber ich lasse mich ungern verurteilen nur weil ich trotzdem die Musik höre.....denn auch wenn ihr sagt es sei eine faule Ausrede, das man doch nur die Musik mag , muss ich euch enttäuschen... ich kann sehr wohl für mich selber entscheiden das ich jemanden persönlich nicht mag aber seine Lieder trotzdem gut finden..auch selbst wenn sie poppig rüberkommen und von einer vermeindlichen Metalband kommen..ich habe NW noch nie als Metal Band eingegrenzt und ich finde ihr Musik toll und auch die Texte, und nicht weil sie aus Tuomas Hand stammen, sondern weil sie eben nicht immer nur schalala sind( man beeachte, das-nicht immer) und auch Texte voller Selbstmitleid sind nichts schlimmes ..nur sollte man als Hörer diese Lieder auf sich selber wirken lassen und sich darüber seine eigenen Verbindungen zum Text suchen..und nicht den -Maestro- dahinter sehen..denn ehrlich gesagt ist es mir ...piepegal ob der gute oder schlechte Laune hat oder was er grad fühlt.es geht mir beim Musikhören nicht um das was er empfindet, sondern was ich fühle... und meine Gefühle sind nicht für den Herrn Holopainen bestimmt sondern aus meinem Leben gegriffen.. und so wie mir geht es noch genug anderen ...
Kritik ist nicht das Problem...denn Kritik muss man eben auch mal ertragen können, das hilft beim wachsen oder man zerbricht daran, wer sich in die Öffentlichkeit stellt wird eben auch kritisiert..das ist ok...
Aber falls eben kleine Teenies Anette toll finden und die Mädels sie cool finden liegt einfach daran das diese eben auch noch Kinder sind und im Herzen noch lange nicht so reif wie manch 30jähriger..deswegen sind sie nicht dumm!!
Und wenn Erwachsene die Reife haben zu sagen, ja ich weiss das ist nicht alles so 100%ig aber ich mag die Musik trotzdem und ich kenne ja gar nicht alle Hintergründe also versuche ich auch nicht nur in eine Richtung zu urteilen und gebe eben zu das ich die Lieder trotzdem mag, auch wenn sie lange nicht mehr so unter die Haut gehen wie mit Tarja..auch solche Menschen sind nicht dümmer als die , die hier am rummaulen sind!!!
So und nun habe ich echt keine Lust mehr denn ich muss zugeben ich bin tatsächlich doch dumm, denn ich labere hier gegen eine Armee von Leuten die zum grössten Teil gar nicht bereit sind weiter zu denken..die ja sogar regelrecht nach neuem suchen worüber sie sich die Mäuler zerreissen wollen,
Manche Menschen brauchen das..sie müssen andere schlecht machen um sich selber gut zu fühlen....
und ich schüre mit meinem Gelaber das ganze ja noch auf..
daher ciao viel Spass beim Weiterlästern...
mal schauen was das neue Album so bringt, ich freu mich drauf, ob mit oder ohne Anette , vielleicht nur noch mit Marco, wäre auch schön, ich mag seine Stimme sehr gerne!

celisajan wrote on 21.10.2009 at 11:18
celisajan: Ich hab die Teenie-Fans ja auch nicht dumm genannt, sondern nur naiv, also genau wie Du. Wie gesagt, ich hab Dich nicht dafür angegriffen, daß Du die Musik gern hörst. Und ich weiß nicht, warum Du einerseits Toleranz predigst (wobei es darum ja eigentlich gar nicht geht, weil hier ja kein Fan verfolgt oder in seiner Freiheit eingeschränkt wird) und jetzt doch wieder anfängst, andere Leute anzugreifen ... das erinnert mich an einen Satz, den ich neulich gelesen habe:

"Ich bin für Toleranz, und wem das nicht passt, dem hau' ich aufs Maul!"

Almagest wrote on 21.10.2009 at 19:49
Genau Almagest und da ich zur Hep Hep Armee gehöre ist mir nicht gestattet jemanden anzugreifen...sowas dürfen nur die reinen und unfehlbaren Mistgabel tragenden und Fackeln schwenkenden Hexenjäger.....
Jagt diese Band samt ihrer Sängerin auf den Marktplatz, damit das gute und gerechte Volk sie brennen sehen kann, und sie vorher noch mit faulem Obst beschmeissen..und sie zu bespucken...

celisajan wrote on 21.10.2009 at 23:21
Tja, Hexenjäger müssen halt damit rechnen, selber zum Opfer zu werden :-)

Wie gesagt, für jemanden, der Toleranz predigt, bist Du ganz schön schnell mit Angriffen bei der Hand.

Almagest wrote on 01.11.2009 at 06:06

NIGHTWISH: X-mas present - Lokikirja-box that contains all their albums

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