NIGHTWISH: Song that will never be released was heard in Hartwall Arena; audio available

21.09.2009

NIGHTWISH ended their massive Dark Passion Play World-tour on saturday evening at Hartwall Arena, Helsinki, Finland. As the show ended and the band bowed to the audience, a song "The Heart Asks Pleasure First" by Michael Nyman was played in the background. The song was recorded by Nightwish but it will never be released on any album.

"We didn't get the permit from the original composer to release the song cause he didn't like our version of it.", Tuomas Holopainen said on an interview he gave to lordsofmetal.nl

The song was one of the first songs the band recorded after Anette Olzon joined Nightwish.

Nightwish will take a long break now and their new album will be released sometime during 2011. During this time each member of Nightwish will work on their own projects. According to Anette Olzon she will release a soloalbum at some point during the break.

Source: www.voice.fi

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"We didn't get the permit from the original composer to release the song cause he didn't like our version of it."

Ha, ha, the composer didn't like their version, but they STILL performed it live, just to prove how cool they are and that they can do no matter what!
Poor composer, I hope he didn't hear this performance.

Mockingbird wrote on 21.09.2009 at 12:12
well.....maybe the original composer of this knew something in order for not giving the permit :PP

Mar wrote on 21.09.2009 at 12:16
now, I would like to quote famous Mrs. Olzon, aka Princess,

who adressed herself on her own blog like this:

"Stop, wining, Anette, stop! Stop!"

mermaid wrote on 21.09.2009 at 12:27
Michael Nyman was fucked by NW, poor Michael dude,they have no respect towards composer who even didn't like their version but they still played it!!!

MFF Staff: Well the thing is that they are allowed to play pretty much whatever they want. Michael Nyman did get royalties from it so he wasn't ripped by NW in any way. As for not releasing the song on any album, that is what the original composer wants and the band respects that.

So take it easy.

Tero
MFF

Stan The Man wrote on 21.09.2009 at 12:33
mermaid, you are surely addressing that lovely quotes about "wining" to Tuomas, he was obviously hurt that some Michael Nyman didn't let HIM, The Great Maestro of All Times to release some puny Michael Nyman's songs, which Maestro granted with his divine attention, so he decided to show that Michael Nyman who is the boss and spit on the composer who didn't like how NW treated his song!

Fitzroy wrote on 21.09.2009 at 12:41
Tero, well if they are playing live a song which the original composer didn't like in their version that's pretty lame.
And if you sure he got royalties for that, then that's ok. Some compensation at least. Still hardly he is happy that they use HIS song in the version HE doesn't like.

MFF Staff: This is of course a matter of opinion and I do understand yours.

Tero
MFF

Stan The Man wrote on 21.09.2009 at 12:46
it didnt sound too good.
even her singing voice is whiney.

but i agree, it's very disrespectful to the composer.
i know i wouldnt want a shitty version of my song released...

Svanhvit wrote on 21.09.2009 at 12:50
Well they didn't play it live, it was on tape and as long as you you don't commercialize a public recording, you can play or perform during a show WHATEVER you want, you just cannot release it and make money. ( see also U2's famous snippets during perfomances )
Michael Nyman didn't like the guitar arrangement on it, btw

OceanWithin wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:07
@Oceanwithin

I can't seriously understand how stupid you NW fans can be.You surprise me every day.

OF COURSE they have the freaking right to play it live,just like with WITA.
What we say here is that is was LAME of them to play a song that it's composer didn't want to give.It is pathetic,it's like saying "hey,look at us,w are so kick-ass that we can do whatever we want".

They are a little too late to act revolutionists now.

Legeon wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:17
useless to say why Nyman didn't like their version, Anette is able to trash the most beautiful tunes always straining her voice like a hysterical one with zero emotion and genuineness, and the bombastic shit remains alone... Tuomas is clearly stuck to more trivial interests than making good music now....

TT wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:18
Yeah, this song is from another composer who didn't like how you arranged that song, but you'll still play it live cause YOU want it, no matter what. That's selfish and disrespectful. They couldn't chose another song? There are lots of them. Not the song which original composer didn't like in their version, but another! Geez.

Elle wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:20
Oh,and OceanWithin is lying about the "guitar arrangements" that Nyman didn't like.This is something someone said on the NW forum as a joke,that he "heard" somewhere that this was the reason.

Legeon wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:21
There is nothing wrong playing this cover version as outro. You can't whine about everything LOL , seriously.

Phantom wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:35
@Phantom

Read my previous(not last) comment.Please?Will you?

Legeon wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:38
Phantom,
They just couldn't chose another song? Seriously? They wanted to play this very one, the song the original author of which didn't like in their version? C'mon, they just wanted to show-we can do everything!

zoe wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:45
Legeon,

Phantom and HIS READING ...

You know quite well, that you are very demanding now.

mermaid wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:45
Legeon, I was not talking to you :) . I just read a random comment.
I feel light-hearted today, I will let you moan as much as you want..for your joy :).

Phantom (of the opera) wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:54
Well you Leggeon douchebag: I am mostly happy for you having found another argument to whine and point out how "blablabla" Nightwish has turned out to be, but legally they were in the right to do it, like many other bands doing shitty cover songs so stop complaining! You may like it or not, that's taste.
What's selfish about that, the song hasn't been torn apart or transformed in a disrespectful way...and they didn't payed it live ( which would at least remotely confirm what you try to say ) it was the tape out and a nice bonus ( gift for the "oh-so-stupid" NW fans present this evening.
I just feel sorry for you proving again and again, how stupid and narrow-fucking-minded you are!
And, check the sources, the guitar element, standing for the the direction his "oeuvre" got, was the reason why he refused it.

OceanWithin wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:54
@Zoe Many fans were curious to hear their cover.

Phantom (of the opera) wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:54
this is my favourite piece of piano she could not DESTROY the original song in a better way .. poor Nyman.. i believe he must have wanted a lot of money to let them do a cover

Marta wrote on 21.09.2009 at 13:58
My opinion on the cover: I don't like it

Phantom (of the opera) wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:07
Phantom
Many fans are curious to hear all old NW songs with Anette or want all old albums to be re-recorded with Olzon on vocals, it doesn't mean that it is smart to give them what they want, cause it would sound, well you imagine, how. And this cover sounds bad, worse than original, they ruined original really, and the original author of this song didn't like that cover and that's important. Really bad choice and not respectful.

zoe wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:07
@Tero

Where's the "No harrasment towards others will ever be published" part?As you can see,OceanWithin posted a very constructive crtiticism,calling me douchebag...

Now,to OceanWithin.

READ my comment again.I said the CAN play it,but that doesn't erase the fact that what they did was disrespectful.
And i don't care less how this song sounded,if this version is good or not.Since the composer didn't like it,there's no point of discussing the quality of the version.

"how stupid and narrow-fucking-minded you are! "

Is this you Olzon?Nice to meet you.

MFF Staff: Yes there are some news from which we could in fact erase probably 40% of comments on these reasons. It's a fine line between being offensive or offering constructive criticism. Opinions are like assholes...we all have one. But clearly we need to focus more which comments we release and which not.

But now that NW is stepping back I think commenting will slow down a bit but then again, Tarja is coming back so there will be plenty of news from her in the future.

Tero
MFF

Legeon wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:08
Phantom
Many fans are curious to hear all old NW songs with Anette or want all old albums to be re-recorded with Olzon on vocals, it doesn't mean that it is smart to give them what they want, cause it would sound, well you imagine, how. And this cover sounds bad, worse than original, they ruined original really, and the original author of this song didn't like that cover and that's important. Really bad choice and not respectful.

zoe wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:09
@ Leggeon, that's what I call stupid and narrow-fucking-minded, this remark of yours:
___________________________________________
"how stupid and narrow-fucking-minded you are! "

Is this you Olzon?Nice to meet you."
___________________________________________

What has playing this song to do with Anette personnally???

OceanWithin wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:18
The cover is terrible.

Swann wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:24
Tero,

" Yes there are some news from which we could in fact erase probably 40% of comments on these reasons. "
___________________________

would it be much more easy to delete that statemnet of yours about not publishing harrasment..?

MFF Staff: Most definately not mermaid. There are at best over 10 editors accepting or rejecting these comments and each of us the concept of harassment is different. After all...we are humans aren't we and we make mistakes. But what I will add in fact is the possibility to delete comments afterwards so when in need, we can clean things a bit.

Tero
MFF

mermaid wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:34
Would be graet if Tarja got permision to release the song in her version -> Tuomas would commit suicide

Isabell wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:34
Isabell, hardly. I mean hardly Tarja would want to do a cover on this song. I do not know if she knows about it even. And please, Tuomas really loves himself and as you see he showes that he can do whatever he wants to.He commits suicides only on the paper as in TPATP.

Unia wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:44
Does anybody of you know why is Phantom today "of the opera" as well??

Thanks.

mermaid wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:49
Poor Michael Nyman, what have they done to his song, no wonder he didn't like their version.

Ariel wrote on 21.09.2009 at 14:51
What a horrible cover that is, I don't like it at all. They should have had a litte respect and picked some other cover to play there.

Don't feed the troll people.

Jaussi wrote on 21.09.2009 at 15:06
They do not know the noton of "respect" don't they, they just had to play that song cause they so wanted to, huh! Awful cover, I understand that composer didn't liked it.

Jane Doe wrote on 21.09.2009 at 15:17
@Zoe , that's different

@Unia , you want Tuomas to commit suicide? :D How so?

Phantom (of the opera) wrote on 21.09.2009 at 15:18
@OcenaWithin

You hardly use your brain huh?

This wasn't for the song,but for Anette calling people that don't accept her "narrow-minded".

I thought that quoting your exact words would make you understand,but you're obviously beyond that.
Next time,first UNDERSTAND what others say before attacking them and calling names.

And seriously,you called me "stupid and narrow minded" because i said that THEY CAN play this song,it's a lame and disrespectful thing?

Please,leave this discussion for the big ones and go to express your teenage hormones in some place that's more suitable.
In a certain blog,for example.

Legeon wrote on 21.09.2009 at 15:23
Phantom
it is still about the thing that not everything you want to do or wish too see, you should do and get, taking in account all the situation. That's this particular cover case. They did wrong. Alas.

zoe wrote on 21.09.2009 at 15:28
Phantom, I do not want Tuomas to commit suicide, but I do not like when people use the suicide issue like a pose to attrack pity and attention.

Unia wrote on 21.09.2009 at 15:30
Unia, me neither

Phantom wrote on 21.09.2009 at 15:44
Unia: Indeed. Usually such people are called "emo" nowadays and rightfully laughed at.

A last, pathetic note for Nightwish's DPP era - and preferrably, also Anette's era - to end on.

Almagest wrote on 21.09.2009 at 15:49
I do not get it...the mermaid is jealous for Phantom who delivered not a straight interest for Tuomas's phants? THE DRAMA!

*** wrote on 21.09.2009 at 16:07
We all know Nyman would have accepted the cover if Tavvja was singing in it!!!11

TAVJA4LYFE wrote on 21.09.2009 at 16:15
TAVJA4LYFE, I do not think so, he didn't like how they treated the music of the song, how it was arranged ;)

Moondance wrote on 21.09.2009 at 16:51
I just have a question...I searched on youtube for the original version of this song (which I hadn't heard before) and it's an instrumental song, or at least I couldn't find any version with lyrics...so...were the lyrics for the cover composed by Tuomas? Or is there another version that I'm not aware of?

Manxita wrote on 21.09.2009 at 17:44
I had the same question, too. "The Heart Asks Pleasure First" is also a poem by Emily Dickinson.

http://www.portablepoetry.com/poems/emily_dickinson/the_heart_asks_pleasure_fi.html

But the sound quality on the video here is not good and I can't understand the lyrics...

CanuckFan wrote on 21.09.2009 at 18:44
Tero, nice reference to Team America.. XD

"Opinions are like assholes" That's so true! I hear more and more using that more often now... XD

James wrote on 21.09.2009 at 18:52
Song that will never be released (because original composer didn't like the cover and didn't want them to release it) was heard in Hartwall Arena (because they wanted to play this cover,no matter if author of the songd didn't like this cover), Lol
Laughable! And disrespectful.

Cartouche wrote on 21.09.2009 at 19:06
I know I repeat some of the comments before me, but where is that "sold out arena"?!?

Kiri wrote on 21.09.2009 at 19:11
The Heart Asks Pleasure First is a beautiful instrumental piece written for the movie "The Piano". I'm sure Michael Nyman didn't appreciate his music being turned into a song. I know I wouldn't, considering the original is far more expressive and powerful than this song.

@Manxita - I'm sure Tumoas wrote the lyrics, added the vocal melody and arranged it how he saw fit. Taking music from movie scores and turning them into songs with vocals seems to be a trend amoung many musicans these days. Ennio Morricone's "Nella Fantasia" is one example. Sarah Brightman originally had that turned into a song and it's since been covered by many, many singers.

DarkWingsAscending wrote on 21.09.2009 at 19:54
The original is MUCH better, Michael Nyman was right, I also do not like cover at all :)

Mina wrote on 21.09.2009 at 20:00
I think I heard a child mentioned.... the same again :P

a* wrote on 21.09.2009 at 20:04
You call this sold-out gig!? o.O

Maestro said: ""We didn't get the permit from the original composer to release the song cause he didn't like our version of it."

Michael Nyman didn't like NW version? Maybe he is a die-hard Tarja crusader. Like Hans Zimmer. And me. Poor Maestro. :-(

Svanhvit said: "i know i wouldnt want a shitty version of my song released..."

No composer would. Except of Maestro. They performed Wishmaster again. :-/

Tero said: "Opinions are like assholes...we all have one."

Gott sei Dank! *knocks on wood*

@Phantom: wow, you are popular these days. Everyone talks to you. :-)

TheSeer wrote on 21.09.2009 at 20:23
Unlike most, I can't really comment on Nightwish's version of this song as I can't hear it past the crowd. Maybe that's just me. Sounds like what you would expect but I can't pass judgment on something I can't hear properly. What I can say is that the original composition by Michael Nyman is classic and well worth listening to if people are not familiar with it, and perhaps it is a shame that it was not brought to new audiences through a popular band like this one. However, if Nyman didn't like it, that is fair enough, but perhaps Tuomas just wanted his version to be heard at least once. I mean, you would want people to hear something you had done right, even a cover? That's the idea behind karaoke...

And to Tero, I am 100% behind some sort of clearup of these comments boards. I'm not trying to be some sort of sanctimonious, holier-than-thou preacher here but there are a LOT of comments which don't really pertain to the enjoyment of and discussion of Metal, and I can only hope that now Nightwish are going away for a while we can all talk about something different instead of just abandoning MFF. For example, if anyone wants to hear some awesome old school Finnish Death Metal, hit me up :D

Jon wrote on 21.09.2009 at 21:09
i do not like this version like and i didn't like "your poison"...but who cares, you make a cover if you like the song and if you want to...

hi wrote on 21.09.2009 at 21:11
Damn, I love Nightwish, they make my heart sing. :D
I can't wait for 2011 :D

Stephanie wrote on 21.09.2009 at 21:13
"@Phantom: wow, you are popular these days. Everyone talks to you. :-)"

YES! She is our hero! When I grow up to be 13 years old I wanna be just like her!!!11

TAVJA4LYFE wrote on 21.09.2009 at 21:16
Great, just great, to play live the version of a song, which original composer didn't even liked. It is like "damn you Michael Nyman, we are the kings, we know better" .
Shame,shame,shame. Besides the cover is really bad.

Nemo wrote on 21.09.2009 at 21:22
"but who cares, you make a cover if you like the song and if you want to... "

but not when the original composer of the song you cover didn't like it, that's already too much of arrogance.

Mina wrote on 21.09.2009 at 21:25
Even if Tuomas thinks that he is a far superior composer than Nyman, he should think twice about pissing him off. Nyman is a highly respected composer of operas and film music and musicologist who has worked about 20th century experimental classical music most notably. Just imagine if he ended up covering DPP songs with Portsmouth Sinfonia (known as "World's Worst Orchestra") or co-operating with Tarja prompted by a vengeful spirit. :-p

Almagest wrote on 21.09.2009 at 22:08
Is TAVJA4LYFE Wrathless? He sounds just as brain-damaged.

Almagest wrote on 21.09.2009 at 22:09
around 11 000 persons attended Hartwall Areena and only 17 have left comments on last Anette's post about this concert....... very strange, isn't it !?

TT wrote on 21.09.2009 at 22:23
TT, nothing strange, they are all resting from orgasm after her performance! lol

I SO don't like that cover!

Swanky wrote on 21.09.2009 at 23:53
"Is TAVJA4LYFE Wrathless? He sounds just as brain-damaged."

Why is a comment like this let through by the moderators? It isn't constructive, it isn't funny, it's just offensive. TAVJA4LYFE was actually attempting sarcasm (however funny or unfunny) by pointing out some of the sucking up that goes on around here to what are considered the elite Anette-bashers, and the grammar of his comment reflects the hysterical, hate-filled nonsensicality of many comments that are against Anette or Tuomas but that are never pulled up on their questionable content because they happen to agree with said elite gripers.

Which is obviously the approach of someone who says, you don't agree with US, the diligent, band-hating majority, you must therefore suffer from brain damage. Too many times it becomes obvious that really you people care less about whether Nightwish have become incredibly awful and deserve their shitstorm of reproach and more about being right and basking in the warmth of the majority's collective vitriol. After all, it's real ego masturbation for you guys, being able to say that anyone disagreeing with you is a fanboy/girl, or is brain damaged, or is a teenager, or in one example is actually Anette Olzon herself, JUST because they have a different opinion to you. Why, the only other place you could enjoy that kind of protection from other people's opinions is a major religion. Obviously, anyone who disagrees with you must not just be wrong in their opinion, but actually mentally inhibited in some way, right?

PS actually it isn't strange that only 17 of 11000 people commented on Anette's blog following saturday's gig, not everyone knows about her blog and I doubt whether most people are interested. Those people can just enjoy the music without tearing apart every element of Anette's character, dress style, physical appearance and mannerisms...pretty strange concept to bend your mind round, I know. Or perhaps most of them know that each post on Anette's blog is needlessly posted here in its entirety on an unrelated news story, so why bother with going to the actual website.

Jon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 02:23
@Jon

Again I agree with you!You can put everything so well to the words and I'm thinking very much same way.Keep on Rocking!

Jimmie wrote on 22.09.2009 at 03:30
Jon said : "actually it isn't strange that only 17 of 11000 people commented on Anette's blog following saturday's gig, not everyone knows about her blog and I doubt whether most people are interested"

81 have commented just before the gig...... only 17 after that so called "Amazing", "marvellous", "heavenly", "perfect", "superb", "splendid " (Anette's words) gig ........ you got the point !?

TT wrote on 22.09.2009 at 04:10
@ Jon

EXCELLENT COMMENT, man! Agree 1000%. Very well-articulated & I couldn't have said it any better.

Let me just add that Anette moderates her blog comments, and this can take a lot of time.

CanuckFan wrote on 22.09.2009 at 04:36
Jon: Actually I was referring to the parody being seriously retarded, for example:

"@Phantom: wow, you are popular these days. Everyone talks to you. :-)"

YES! She is our hero! When I grow up to be 13 years old I wanna be just like her!!!11"

This is totally random and non sequitur and therefore unfunny. If a parody is too extreme and senseless, it ceases to be funny or smart and is just lame and stupid. Just like Wrathchild (sorry, misremembered his nickname), though I have no idea if he is really as retarded as he acts.

Also note that I have not called anybody "brain-damaged", I have said that the comments of the poster SOUND brain-damaged.

Have I ever attacked Empathica or called her dumb, a fangirl, a teenager, brain damaged etc.? No, because she at least acts decently, even if I don't think her points are always solid and stand up to scrutiny. If people act like teenagers, fanboys etc., they'll have to live with the fact that they will be called teenagers or fanboys etc.

Sorry for not bothering about any negative or insulting comment towards NW, if you paid attention you'd notice that not every negative or insulting comment in the other direction is addressed, either.

Also, where were you when some person called Legeon douchebag etc.?

You are just another hypocritical fan who turns a blind eye with regard to people who happen to agree with you: you practice the opposite of what you preach preach.

Almagest wrote on 22.09.2009 at 04:46
Jon: A blatant example of your bias is that you've never called Wrathchild on his insults, either.

You may not like the fact that negative opinions of NW are represented much more strongly in MFF's comments than positive ones, but you can always go to places where positive opinions are more dominant.

I really think those slants within Internet communities are not the result of random dynamics, by the way. In general, I've observed that the moderators' attitude is what counts in the end. Tero and several of the co-moderators are critical of NW as well, and I think that's why negative criticism has been able to thrive here, while it is suppressed or discouraged in other places. Fans bothered by the atmosphere here will go to more NW-friendly communities, those frustrated by the atmosphere in other communities have moved over to here. That's how it works.

Almagest wrote on 22.09.2009 at 05:34
Did they play Sahara? I was searching for Sahara videos in Youtube, once it's the only song of DPP I like, but haven't seen any video of Hartwal. :S
Fortunately I found a nice cover of a brazilian girl. Her name reminded of someone I saw in a magazine a couple of years ago, then I went check it and it was really her. Haha
But her voice seems so better now than in those old songs of the band reviewed in the magazine.
Anyway, I enjoyed it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HWrBAxIFXM

Mwaha wrote on 22.09.2009 at 06:05
@ Almagest

I salute you brother for that deep analysis on Jon!! m/

Ravisk wrote on 22.09.2009 at 09:22
Almagest, I know OceanWithin's comment was not funny, but you have to admit your own didn't even attempt humour in your response, just offensiveness. The '!!!111' thing is a sort of Internet joke people use to refer to the excitable keyboard mashing of fans or keyboard warriors, by the way.

I don't know who Empathica is. I simply find it frustrating that attempts to rationally discuss Nightwish without just hysterically flaming Anette for the same boring reasons over and over is usually met with accusations of being a fan.
For the last time, I don't think I have acted like a fanboy. Feel free, Almagest, to point out where I have at any point even said anything positive about the band, and do tell me where I have seemed like "another hypocritical fan". Seriously, I really couldn't care about them. They're not that bad, but I am far from a fanboy. I'm also very far from a militant hater, but it seems that here you're one or the other with no room for anything in between.

I think you just don't like being disagreed with. Hence your resorting to calling me a fan and a hypocrite, and even recycling my original criticism back in my direction. Not to mention your trying to prove that the MFF staff are somehow on your side. As for the moderators opinions being the correct ones, that's a bit like going to school and saying teacher is always right. Teacher shows you where to write, and even breaks up disputes sometimes, but you do have to think for yourself too.

To anyone who might have been offended by my inability to respond to every negative comment ever made, I don't think I have been biased at any point, all along I have simply reiterated that the comments boards are being crapped up by what are becoming very stale criticisms of the band, and I notice some people actually agree with that. Perhaps they find that it is hard to express any opinion here that does not conform with more popular opinions.

I am going to reiterate my opinion of Nightwish to make it really easy for everyone.

I agree that Anette is a far inferior singer to Tarja.
Dark Passion Play is of inferior quality to Once and other previous albums.
The orchestra in their sound has drawn much focus away from the band.
Anette's blog and personal life is of little interest to anyone.

However.
I feel that these critiques are well trod.
I feel that many comments on here are too much like idle gossip (and even sometimes rather awkward flirting).
I think that although both negative and positive views here are valid, there is a tendency amongst detractors of 'New Era' NW to obsess over the appearance and behaviour of the band, and also to become incredibly offensive towards people who do not share their views. It is strange that you have accused me of the same, simply because I have not had time to assess each and every comment in terms of its importance. If I do have time to do this, I will let you know whether there are more morons supporting Anette, or more supporting Tarja.

Lastly.
Don't tell people where they can and cannot express their views. If a comments board or forum comes to the point where only one point of view is deemed acceptable there is something wrong with it. I don't want to go to a NW friendly community, as I am not Nightwish friendly (it is very important I repeat this, as some people seem to get confused over this issue of whether someone is an Anette fan if they haven't insulted her at least once in their post).

Again, I apologize this post may seem as if it is directed towards Almagest, it isn't, it is simply a reiteration of my opinions and also a clarification of what I said previously. Nothing personal. But for Almagest, if you don't want to talk to me any more, simply send another post ranting about me being a Nightwish taliban or a teenage girl or something, as I will probably take that as a sign you haven't absorbed anything I've said and give up on you.

TT- I meant that it is by no means surprising that a small number of people at the gig would then comment. I rarely go to comment on band websites after gigs, certainly not websites specific just to the singer. I did not know how many commented before or after as I do not frequent her forum. As I said, I am not 'Nightwish friendly' or an Anette fan, or even a teenager. That's why I didn't "got the point!?"

Jon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 09:30
TT: for someone who seems to be a seasoned internet poster and seems to follow her blog so closely and is so very interested in it, I find it strange you don't understand the concept of approving blog comments before they are published. Even this board uses the same method. But then again, I've overestimated people and their abilities before.. many times.

Turska wrote on 22.09.2009 at 09:31
Jon

For example I offered you a calm, broad analysis of DPP somewhere in the other thread. Several people also did that or similar things on this board every now and then, so you can't say that everybody who criticizes NW here are acting like this so-called Demolition Crew or whatever they call themselves.

About attention to Madam Olzon's blog. You see, I'm sure nobody would pay attention to her primitive blog, yes I think it is very primitive, if not only several years ago the members of NW didn't start that dirt, when firing their first singer. Cause when they were firing her they also concentrated on her manners, behavior, personal life, etc. They showed that when it comes to NW's singer such matters come first, not music, singing and etc. It was their mistake, and no wonder that people would now judge NW's singer a lot by those criterias. Perhaps you do not like that, but it is, and there are lots of people as I understand who didn't like how the first singer was treated. You can't change that, I can't change that, it was NW's mistake. But as you said since it is not NW fan site or NW community, you can't press only one opinion here, therefore you can't order or make people NOT criticize NW here. Besides unfortunately NW does deserve criticism now.
I hope you will handle my post also calmly :)

I do not like that cover and I also think that they could play as outro something else and not the version of the song, which original composer didn't like and didn't permit to release officially.

Leon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 10:07
Leon,

Thanks for a great response :)

Of course I would not hope to enforce my opinion on anyone. I hope you know the majority of my posts have included some sort of attempt to avoid people being stereotyped as Anette-loving teenage fangirls because they offer a different opinion. It is exactly that sort of opinion tyranny I am so uncomfortable with. I hope you didn't interpret my response as defending Nightwish or ordering people not to criticize them; in fact I have frequently included criticism of them when I have posted on here.

Also, I am glad you have brought us back to the subject of the actual news article, Nightwish have traditionally used film scores and such to finish shows and it would have seemed more noble to play Michael Nyman's original piece than their own. Perhaps if Tuomas had stayed nearer to the original Nyman wouldn't have had a problem with it, unfortunately it did end up becoming very much just another Nightwish song, sounding suspiciously like For The Heart I Once Had (perhaps the reason that song was included on the album instead of more appropriately being a B-side). But yes I can't really condone them using the song, it does seem very much Tuomas wanting to have the last word again as with Tarja's firing in the past.

Jon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 10:20
Wow, I really don't see why this is such a big deal. I was there, I liked the song. The guy who wrote it didn't want it released on an album, and they didn't release it. I would say that right there, they're respecting his wishes. And they didn't perform it live either. It's just an outro track.

Emmi wrote on 22.09.2009 at 10:22
Many Teenager covered Nightwish songs and put it in youtube, some of them are great, and some of than are lousy..and no one here called this teenies disrespektfull against NW??
Many Partybands plays at official parties NW Covers.. and no one ask the original Band (Nightwish) of their opinion about that...

Come on guys, whats your real problem???
Sometimes when I read this comments here and in the other threads I think, the people search for something to offent this Band!!!!!

( this cover sounds realy lousy , I think so, but this is no reason to make such big Problem of it)
sorry , my english is lousy, I hope you can read and understand it ;-)

celisajan wrote on 22.09.2009 at 10:29
@celisajan

Another NW fan who OBVIOUSLY can't see the problem.

Covers in YouTube aren't official releases.These kids don't earn any money by doing these covers.
And most of these covers are either in the studio or in a live show with maximum 20 people in the crowd.

NW,however,asked permission to release in OFFICIALLY,they didn't get it,but they STILL played it in front of 11000 even if they knew that the composer didn't like their version.

NW may actually give permission to other artists to cover their songs,but it's in the composer's choice to do that or not.Nyman didn't,but they still played it live.

That's why it was disrespectful.

And allow me to tell you that NW fans would be furious if anyone did that to NW,just as happened with that French rapper.

Legeon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 10:50
The thing is celisajan that a higher level of professionalism is expected from Nightwish than would be from a band playing at a party, or from someone posting a video on Youtube. I'm in two minds about it, as if the band really, really wanted to play it then it would perhaps have been better to find out from Michael Nyman if they could actually perform it just the once as an encore, and seeing as how Tuomas has played snippets from it before that shouldn't have been a problem. Having thought about it, I still think there is no problem with the band wanting their version to be heard, but the way they did it seems a little odd. I feel that it is very likely this concert will end up on CD, and that the band's version of the song will basically have been 'released', which is pretty disrespectful.

Jon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 10:55
"The guy who wrote it didn't want it released on an album, and they didn't release it. I would say that right there, they're respecting his wishes. And they didn't perform it live either. It's just an outro track."

The guy who wrote it didn't want them to release it because he didn't like what they made with his piece. So to choose to play it still, not matter if only as outro track, is very arrogant. It is like showing-off. Indeed, it is like Tuomas wanted to put the last word in it.

celisajan, covers which are made on youtube are staying on youtube, they didn't play them as outro at their concerts,lol
And about bands who make live NW covers - the original NW composer didn't say to this or that band that he didn't like what they did to his songs before they played it live. Here original composer didn't let them release it officially cause he didn't like their version. And they still decided to demonstrate it. Bad idea.

Mina wrote on 22.09.2009 at 11:05
@jon
I understand your opinion
and I didn`t said thats already right that NW make this cover,
i think,too this was a mistake, but
when you read some comments here( and the other threads here about the NW singer and the gig in Helsinki) , you can see that some of the people(not all) here are seems to waiting for such mistakes from the Band.
The people comes like hungry wild dogs to crush the band into pices!
Thats no way to talk about each others!!!
I think these people had a problem with their own opinion of fairness and respect to each other!!
they offent the band and the other people
who are not agree with them, with dirty words!!

sad!!

celisajan wrote on 22.09.2009 at 11:25
@Legeon
youtube is official, all the people can see and hear it , thats even more than 20 people....!!! ;-)

celisajan wrote on 22.09.2009 at 11:28
I wonder how it is possible to be so obsessed about a band and everything associated with it (reading their forums, reading and having an opinion on every news about them, their members' blogs, etc) that you hate so much. Doesn't that make your life miserable?

Usually normal people when they don't like a band/artist/genre/whatever, they just ignore it, and don't spend their every waking hour finding faults and making up insults about them and their fans.

Geleon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 11:29
@ Geleon.... :-)

and now I spend my time to hear NW ( because I love this Band, with Tarja and now with Anette)
and it doesnt matters to me what Anette is wearing or what Tuomas is doing, or what marco ist drinking....
I want HEAR them!!!!!!!!!!

@legeon...I think Anette is not the Wonder of musik but NW is nevertheless(right word for -trotzdem-??? ;-) ) a great Band, and I am not one of this fanatic people who are blind to see that NW isn´t perfect... but Iam so unperfect , too, so I can forgive some mistake of each others....

have a nice day ;-)

celisajan wrote on 22.09.2009 at 11:58
@celisajan

YouTube is official.
Videos aren't.
Besides,these kids covering the tracks don't ask for permission(because they don't need to),but NW did,and got the answer that no,i don't like it.
They STILL played it.

God,i don't believe i'm still answering to these comments.

Legeon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 12:54
I dunno, it just seems to me like everyone's making a bigger deal out of this than it is. I mean, okei, he didn't like their version. Unless there's a more official release of the conversation that he had with Tuomas that I haven't seen, all I saw there was that he didn't like their version. It doesn't say that he hated it or thought it ruined his song, it just says that he didn't like it. The way I'm reading the comments here it seems like everyone thinks that the composer despised the song and and was refusing to let it be heard. He didn't like it and he didn't want it on an album. It's not. I respect the fact that it's a bit lame of Tuomas to play a song the original composer didn't like, it is still a creation of his to some extent (his version) and if he feels like playing it as an outro, he can go ahead and do it. The composer still got his royalties, so no one's getting harmed by it.

Emmi wrote on 22.09.2009 at 13:26
"I respect the fact that it's a bit lame of Tuomas to play a song the original composer didn't like, it is still a creation of his to some extent (his version) and if he feels like playing it as an outro, he can go ahead and do it."

It is not even about "being late", thought it is indeed late, it is ridiculous. It is like "original composer didn't like it, that's why we couldn't put it on the album, but hey, I'm super cool guy, I messed up with the orignal, but I still want to play my version as an outro cause it is mine,mine,me,me,me".

If they had used original music piece by Michael Nyman, that would have been more noble indeed, more smart.

Swanheart wrote on 22.09.2009 at 14:21
I wonder what the hell marmeid, legeon and the others will do during this NW break... probably read anette1s blog all day long, and ague with themselves...
poor people...
go do something fun, guys!! anette and the others are probably doing the same =P

Lumikki wrote on 22.09.2009 at 15:11
Phantom you comment on Anette's blog?

Isabell wrote on 22.09.2009 at 15:15
Geleon's comment is really good:
I wonder how it is possible to be so obsessed about a band and everything associated with it (reading their forums, reading and having an opinion on every news about them, their members' blogs, etc) that you hate so much. Doesn't that make your life miserable?

When I read comments in some other thread where the fact that Tuomas was crying or almost crying after the final concert is laughed at, insulted, attacked and treated in every possible disrespectful way, I really start to wonder what kind of person does that?

I know the same happens to all "celebrities", they are mocked for being fat/ugly/stubid or whatever but I really wonder what does this kind of mocking of people one doesn't like give to a person.

Or is it just once a bully, always a bully?

DaisyO wrote on 22.09.2009 at 15:24
I can live with your little hits, dear Leggeon and other.

I am truly happy you found a "hard fact" argument that helps you demonstrate how "bad" and "mercantile" Nightwish has become. Yeah, how disrespectful they were towards Nyman. How bad, how egocentric. You got it. They didn't get the OK to make money with it, so they played it for free with the only intention to show that they rule. Other mybe see it the other way around as nice little goodbye gift and "cherry on creamtop" at least presenting this "oh so fobidden" song at least one time to the fans which travalled from all over the world to see them. Yes, maybe ( though laws, as you know, permit it ) they thought "Fuck Nyman, we do it for the fans!"
Did you never do something you were not allowed to?
But OK, use this argument for your cruisade and have fun! If it helps you....go for it.

Further, I am happy that every little post Anette does in her blog helps you to demonstrate she doesn't earn her place in this band you once adored so much.You actually don't try to understand anything and assamble the facts, like in classical conspiracy theories, the way you want in the only aim, to whine in the comfort that Nightwish isn't for you what it used to be.

Well, I am proud being a " you new nightwish fan" and "Anette blog reader" or " Walking in the air 2009 liker ", insult me just the way you want...it still feels better than standing on the side you and your little friends here represent: "narrow-minded-disrespect".... Narrow-minded because the discussions doesn't turn out to be about music anymore, it's strictly personal hate and bashing insults because you, dear friend, can't stand the fact it's over.

Ciao

OW

OceanWithin wrote on 22.09.2009 at 15:37
@legion
take a break, get a kit kat make a big breath and come down..ok????
I didn´t ask for an answer from you... so its your own decision to answer or not ;-)
I know, your comment is correct!
But you talk like your are the composer of heart asks pleasure first....
Its not your problem.
If the composer is really angry,
he would do his way to clear up the situation with the band!!
Perhaps Tuomas would show the audience this cover to hear their comments about it, hopefull, that they could like it....
Open questions, why he did this....
the aswer is somewhere out there ;-)
(sorry of my grammatical mistakes...Iam german and my english is lousy;-) )

celisajan wrote on 22.09.2009 at 15:40
@Daisy

"crying after the final concert is laughed at, insulted, attacked and treated in every possible disrespectful way, I really start to wonder what kind of person does that?"

Better ask NW fans about that.The very people that laughed at tarja,insulted her and treated her in every possible disrespectful way when she gave a press conference and was crying because of the way NW treated her.Then ALL NW fans were laughing at her.

@Lumikki

Oh yes,we know Anette is going to do some funny things...The same she always does:
Shopping,shopping,eating,shopping,more shopping,and shopping.
And you know what?We are not worried,since she never misses the chance to show off her new clothes and how much she spends on them.

When this shit with NW fans psychoanalyzing every person that criticizes Anette and NW and always coming to the result that we have sad,boring lives STOP?
You guys make yourselves look like idiots with no argument at all.If you have A REAL argument,please post.If you continue with your superficial "get a life",please save it for yourself.
You're doing yourselves no favor,and you actually make Anette look bad having ridiculous fans like you.

Legeon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 15:45
@Isabell No, it would be too boring to comment.
It's someone else with the same nickname.

Phantom wrote on 22.09.2009 at 15:54
@DaisyO
The poor people would have a boring time during Nightwishs Holidays... ;-)
perhaps if they can`t mock at Nightwish, they take other bands to offent them......
It seems that some people search for mistakes of other people and make a big thing of it....a great hobby!!
shame on this people...in germain there is a proverb:
Bevor man über andere urteilt, bitte erstmal den Dreck vor der eigenen Tür wegkehren!!!
Befor you judge over other people, clean up in front of your own door....!!!

celisajan wrote on 22.09.2009 at 16:06
@legion
I didn`t laugh about Tarja,
I think it was a sad situation for her!!
But this was 4 years ago, so come on and realize the fact, Tarja is gone and got a good solocareer!! She makes her way..
also so NW does it!!!!!
What in hell is so problematic to understand that the world is turning on???????
And why must people offent the Band because of all the things they do, who arent agree with the Tarja lovers????
all words that Tuomas said and things he do, in the last 4 years, are wrong, and he is the asshole in this story, blabla, Tarja makes mistakes too, realize it!!!!!!
Tuomas isn´t an angel...but Tarja...isn´t it , too!!!!!

celisajan wrote on 22.09.2009 at 16:19
I Like the haters, I really do. Contrary to their wishes they are only stirring up interest, being intrumental in the process of making Nightwish even more succesful. Without all the debates and controversies surrounding Anette, DPP wouldn't have been NW's best selling album as of yet, and the follwing world tour wouldn't have been the their highest grossing concert streak to this date. So just let these pitiful low-life characters spread their pathetic slander. The rest of us can still enjoy the beautiful music, and singing, and NW will be laughing all the way to the bank. It's hillarious! :o)

Mingus wrote on 22.09.2009 at 16:33
Oh people,you are soooo funny with your naivity and fanatism and your noble efforts to defend NW...

Well,all your accusations have been answered before,and many times,so i won't bother myself answering back.Comments are available for you to check...

In the meantime,while you tell us to get a hobby and stop stalking NW,why don't you get a hobby and stop stalking US who stalk NW?
No no,you wouldn't like that...Then who would defend poor Anette in an independent metal board,who would try to turn in to another NW forum?

Legeon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 16:53
"When I read comments in some other thread where the fact that Tuomas was crying or almost crying after the final concert is laughed at, insulted, attacked and treated in every possible disrespectful way, I really start to wonder what kind of person does that? "

Well, I didn't write anything like that, but I think it's because Tuomas likes to be seen as a sentimental, feeling guy. Last time he cried at Ever Dream, I believe, and people liked to think that's because this song means so much to him - maybe it was even dedicated to Tarja, who knows - or because it was his last show with Tarja etc. Maybe his crying was honest, I don't know, but at the same time, he doesn't respect or even consider other people's feelings. He didn't when he fired and insulted Tarja (and Marcelo, btw) with that open letter, or when he said stuff about other artists in interviews (e.g. he said that bon jovi's lyrics are "crap"), or in that famous interview when he said Anette might have to leave - what did she feel when she read that, in case she did?
He isn't sensitive, he's two-faced, in my opinion.

celisajan wrote:
"all words that Tuomas said and things he do, in the last 4 years, are wrong, and he is the asshole in this story, blabla, Tarja makes mistakes too, realize it!!!!!!
Tuomas isn´t an angel...but Tarja...isn´t it , too!!!!! "

Well, I'm german too and I understand your english (and I hope people understand mine ;-) ) but, please, stop that !!!!!!!????? stuff, I think it's rediculous, makes it look like you don't have many arguments and try to make it look more important...whatever:

to what you said: yes, Tarja made mistakes, everybody does. I'm sure she did mistakes in the last years of the old era, when she and Tuomas wouldn't talk to each other anymore. But so did Tuomas. The difference is: Tarja didn't tell millions of people about his mistakes, like he did. He tried to put all the blame on Tarja, making the others and especially himself look like angels. It was a calumny, and one of the best-planned and meanest I've ever heard of.
Tarja made mistakes, and she had to pay for it. Tuomas didn't have to, because he made her pay for it. And that's why most of us despise him, I think.
To that, of course, comes the fact that he hired a mediocre pop-singer. But I think most of us would just let him be and listen to Tarja if they parted without all that drama.

Earwen wrote on 22.09.2009 at 17:26
It is really nice to read how a person who not long ago pretended to like tarja in another topic and who is also proud New NW fan and who gives lectures to others about narrow-mindeness also not long ago called this very tarja a fat alien. Well ,after that can the words of such person be taken seriously and does this person has right to read lectures to others about narrow-mindness? Not at all, but of course this person will try to say now how bad it is to criticize anette and NW. That's a typical manner of New NW fan. Talking about hipocrisy. I mean this OceanWithin person.

DaisyO, there are people laughing at tarja's tears, calling her bitch because of the letter, calling her ugly and stuff, and they are doing it still around the net. Surprisingly most of them are New NW fans. I wonder what kind of people they are....also bullies perhaps.

celisajan, if you do not get it, the problem is not that tarja is gone, the problem is that why should the people who treated her like that or people doing freely the same things she was accused of be considered untouchable saints? NW did a scapegoat out of their first singer and labeled her for life, they wanted to do it in public. They did it. But public is not always eats up everything. But why should somebody, who is not a blind fan, show them so much mercy and symphaty, when NW didn't show it to the first singer!

Voice wrote on 22.09.2009 at 17:30
This cover is bad, original is better and the fact they played their version sucks .

Quebec wrote on 22.09.2009 at 17:33
Jon said: "Unlike most, I can't really comment on Nightwish's version of this song as I can't hear it past the crowd."

12000 is not to be underestimated. :-p

hi said: "i do not like this version like and i didn't like "your poison"..."

If I remember correctly you don't like music at all? :-p

TAVJA4LYFE said: ""@Phantom: wow, you are popular these days. Everyone talks to you. :-)"
YES! She is our hero! When I grow up to be 13 years old I wanna be just like her!!!11"

I beg your pardon? :-D

Swanky said: "TT, nothing strange, they are all resting from orgasm after her performance! lol "

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!! XD

Jon said: "TAVJA4LYFE was actually attempting sarcasm (however funny or unfunny) by pointing out some of the sucking up that goes on around here to what are considered the elite Anette-bashers"

Yeah that's nice but please tell me what Phantom has to do with all that? He is NOT elite Anette basher, he is only elite.

"and the grammar of his comment reflects the hysterical, hate-filled nonsensicality of many comments that are against Anette or Tuomas but that are never pulled up on their questionable content because they happen to agree with said elite gripers."

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... Together with some stuff you said before about media being the guilty ones for NW drama and I forgot what was the other, Jon you REALLY deserve a medal. :-)

CanuckFan said: "Let me just add that Anette moderates her blog comments, and this can take a lot of time."

And even more comments. :-p

TheSeer wrote on 22.09.2009 at 18:03
Almagest said: "Tero and several of the co-moderators are critical of NW as well, and I think that's why negative criticism has been able to thrive here, while it is suppressed or discouraged in other places."

Well said Almagest! :-) The typical example where NW criticism is surpressed is official Tarja forum.

Jon said: "The '!!!111' thing is a sort of Internet joke people use to refer to the excitable keyboard mashing of fans or keyboard warriors, by the way."

Keyboard what? :-D

Leon said: "It was their mistake, and no wonder that people would now judge NW's singer a lot by those criterias."

As Almagest has already said, we judge Nightwish using the very standards they set, and that is - personal things DO matter, music does NOT. ;-)

celisajan said: "Sometimes when I read this comments here and in the other threads I think, the people search for something to offent this Band!!!!!"

Now why would you think so? I cannot think of any reason someone would want to offend that Band (notice the capital B). Honest to God! :-p

"The people comes like hungry wild dogs to crush the band into pices!"

:-D

MFF Staff: Can't speak about other moderators but I have nothing against Nightwish. When I comment something I do it without taking sides. Sometimes unfortunately the conversation just gets so absurd that it really doesn't matter what you say, you are either a NW-hater or Tarja-hater anyway.

Tero
MFF

TheSeer wrote on 22.09.2009 at 18:27
Lumikki said: "I wonder what the hell marmeid, legeon and the others will do during this NW break... probably read anette1s blog all day long, and ague with themselves...
poor people...
go do something fun, guys!! "

Fun for YOU or for THEM?

OceanWithin said: "Narrow-minded because the discussions doesn't turn out to be about music anymore"

It wouldn't change anything even if we talked about music! We would still be narrow-minded. Because we think that pop and opera are not same! :-p

TheSeer wrote on 22.09.2009 at 18:35
Well, playing this outro was a very silly bravado, and I do not like the cover at all, the original music is so beautiful and NW's version is distorted and sounds so poppy. I'm glad that Nyman didn't let them release it.

Marianne wrote on 22.09.2009 at 18:36
Jon: I understood that TAVJA4LYFE is a parody right at the beginning, and I know the significance of the exclamation marks and ones, you needn't lecture me on them, thank you. If you'd actually stopped to read what I wrote you'll notice I haven't called you a teenage fanboy of NW either.

Also, you are blatantly misrepresenting my point about internet communities. That one was purely descriptive, an OBSERVATION. I do not need the support of Tero or anyone else, the point is that he (and his group of moderators) TOLERATES negative comments about NW, while other communities don't. He also tolerates the flirting and other deviations (from the subject at hand) to a large extent. If you do not like that, you need to address him directly. If you are really bothered by this, I mean. I haven't said that you need to change the community, it was just a general, descriptive comment.

I'm not sure what comment of OceanWithin you are referring to, sorry. Are you saying that TAVJA4LYFE is OceanWithin? If so, how do you know? Unless you are a friend of hers, that is, which would make you hardly as neutral as you pretend to be.

But then again, I have no idea why you keep glossing over or playing down the fact that comments of Wrathchild, OceanWithin et al. are deeply offensive, much more so than my own.

You said: "Why is a comment like this let through by the moderators? It isn't constructive, it isn't funny, it's just offensive. TAVJA4LYFE was actually attempting sarcasm (however funny or unfunny) by pointing out some of the sucking up that goes on around here to what are considered the elite Anette-bashers, and the grammar of his comment reflects the hysterical, hate-filled nonsensicality of many comments that are against Anette or Tuomas but that are never pulled up on their questionable content because they happen to agree with said elite gripers. "

I understood this as a criticism of the NW-critical "core group" (as well as the moderation of MFF) failing to address all overly negative, insulting or bashing comments coming from anyone but the "core group". You look hypocritical criticising the "core group" (as well as the moderators) for being too lenient against them when you do exactly the same. I haven't ever seen you taking the "get a life" etc. comments, either, which are insulting not to far-away celebrities, but to people POSTING HERE. And this seems to be mainly what the policy is about.

I don't see how your above quote could be interpreted in any other way.

Your comment about "sucking up" doesn't sound particularly respectful, either, by the way.

You see, all those pyros and other special effects that are so important to the fans are clear indications that music is not even what NW concerts are mainly about nowadays.

celisajan: Tarja may not be an angel, but at least she behaves in a DECENT and PROFESSIONAL manner. Tuomas doesn't, he keeps provoking criticism. He doesn't even TRY to avoid it.

Almagest wrote on 22.09.2009 at 18:53
celisajan: By the way, I call people who ruin other peoples' reputations and never utter a single word of regret for it assholes.

Almagest wrote on 22.09.2009 at 18:56
Legeon wrote:

"In the meantime,while you tell us to get a hobby and stop stalking NW,why don't you get a hobby and stop stalking US who stalk NW? "

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!! The haters are so funny! I love them! Best comedy show in town! :o) :o) :o)

Mingus wrote on 22.09.2009 at 19:57
Mingus: Don't worry, we don't overestimate our influence. NW will become more famous, or infamous, with or without our help. To all the mainstream music listeners in North America and elsewhere, the promotion done by the label is FAR more important than some random opinions on some random messageboard, whether those opinions are negative or positive. But if NW's music and shows continue to suck, even the mainstream listeners may abandon them sooner as thought, or never get into them in the first place, and hang onto the next trend. Good music is never out of fashion, but fashionwhores are subject to the merciless market forces, including those that are destroying the mainstream music industry right now. Exploiting on people's curiosity and fans' loyalty worked with DPP (I know many fans who bought DPP but regretted it quickly), but for the next album, the deck is going to be re-shuffled.

Almagest wrote on 22.09.2009 at 21:01
BTW, the reason why NW got big in the first place was their originality. As soon as this originality starts to wane, even the mainstream listeners can be expected to lose interest. We have already seen the first signs.

Almagest wrote on 22.09.2009 at 21:04
NW fans: If you don't like ad hominems, do everyone a favour and STOP THEM YOURSELF. You are hypocritical to the power of ten. You have resorted, and are still resorting to the exact schoolyard bullying tactics that you keep criticising. This includes the tired old "conspiracy theorist" claim. To ping-pong your accusation back: Don't you have anything better to do?

Tero: The fact that you're neutral doesn't contradict my statement that you are critical. Obviously you are not uncritical.

TheSeer: Negative criticism of NW is not suppressed in the German part of the Tarja forum, and has become at least as dominant there as here. I see that connected to the fact that the mod of the German part is critical of NW, as well.

Almagest wrote on 22.09.2009 at 21:12
Marianne: I'd rather call it an act of defiance. You know, like when little boys stomp their feet out of anger because they don't get what they want. This isn't the first time Tuomas has acted like this. See my comment on the setlist article.

Almagest wrote on 22.09.2009 at 21:34
Mingus,

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!! The New NW lovers are so funny too! I love them! Best comedy show in the net! :o) :o) :o)

Minx wrote on 22.09.2009 at 22:25
@Mingus

No,actually the best comedy show in town is a band that's supposed to play metal,try to get attention by insulting their previous singer or playing cover songs that even their composer disliked,and have hired a singer who looks lime my granny in hot pants sings like that:
deep into a dying dayyayyaaayy
I took a step outside an innocent heaaaaaaart
prepare to hate me,fall when i mayayyayyeee
this night will hurt you nEEVEVER befoeoeoeore...

BUT if you say that WE are the ones that make NW famous,and if their fame depends on us,then poor NW.Once they were based on their music.

NW must be very sad having people like you as fans.People that,with every argument they post,bring NW down.

Legeon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 22:28
Also,Mingus,do you know what is the funniest show in town?

A singer in a metal band asking WHY shouldn't Britney Spears sing metal,and why metal heads accept classical singer in metal and not pop singers?

A CERTAIN singer.

Legeon wrote on 22.09.2009 at 22:32
well, what i meant is: nobody in NW gives a shit for what you're writing down here, and that's a fact!
they probably never will read all this comments.
right now, they are at home, enjoyning their families, packing for a nice trip around the globe, thinking about their own subjects, and you're here, babbling about the same old stuff...
if anette is a princess, if tuomas is insane for firing tarja, if emppu is a gnome or an elf.
come on, people! i think everybody here needs a hug, so all this anger will go away =D
is, i'm an anette fan, and i also like tarja a lot. i saw them both with NW, more then once. i saw tarja solo show. i met them both in person, and they are really loveble persons, really kind girls, and they BOTH are amazing singers, despite the fact they sing in different styles.
so, they're in a long vacation. why don't we do the same? i just come here to laugh with all this insanity, but i fell like some people here take this really serious...
i don't care if anette enjoy herself buying clothes. i do the same. tarja do the same (anybody here saw "the day before tomorrow"?). you do the same. i don't care if tuomas is gay, i don't care if marco is a drunk guy. i like the music. the lyrics. and the passion behind every show the play.
so, let's take a break. let's tero rest a little LOL.
lots of hugs and lots of love to everyone <3

Lumikki wrote on 22.09.2009 at 22:46
Lumikki said : "[...] and the passion behind every show they play. "

LOL nice try !!!!

TT wrote on 23.09.2009 at 01:15
The so-called Anette-haters still comment on such topics BECAUSE THEY ONCE ADORED THIS BAND!!! It was unique and beautiful, magical and operatic. It was one of a kind, now it's just ... unbelievably pop. We are sad that such a band was ruined like that..

Mainstream was never REALLY appreciated. Now Tuomas will get his punishment for what he did. REAL fans are leaving..

zina wrote on 23.09.2009 at 01:16
Rare is the occurrence, as far as I know, that a composer rejects a request for permission of a cover. Nyman must REALLY have detested it. The close-minded prick. Even Alice Cooper allowed Tarja's (as we all know) awful Poison cover. :-p

But as we all now know, the heart may ask pleasure first, but Tuomas doesn't bother to ask permission first. :-p

Lumikki: Do you include Marcelo in your universal love? :-p

Almagest wrote on 23.09.2009 at 01:57
Lumikki: We already know that NW shit on fans' opinions (at least as long as they don't consist of ass-licking and unconditional worship, see Anette and her censorship of even harmless blog comments). It's going to come back to them.

Almagest wrote on 23.09.2009 at 02:54
@zina

"Real fans"????....Who is a "real fan"???...a person who accept what ever the band do or a person who don't accept any changes what the band has FREEDOM to do if this person don't like it???
If "real fans" leave the band then they can leave also from this place!Don't be afraid because there will be always people who enjoy the Nightwish music and believe me you can't do nothing for that fact.Nightwish don't need your support and Tuomas will be happy for this "punishment"...BYE!

Jimmie wrote on 23.09.2009 at 04:27
thanks for posting Tero..despite all the comment-drama!
There are a million unknown bands that probably play Nightwish or other famous bands' songs as covers at gigs, and more than a few of them I'm sure Nightwish wouldn't like..can't really be stopped and I wouldn't want them to anyways, because to me it just shows that they were a great influence :)

Angela wrote on 23.09.2009 at 05:31
@jimmy
I totally agree with you

Good words
thank you for your comment

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 10:23
@Angela

I try to say the same with other words...and Legeon called me a fanatic NW Fan who wouldn´t understand....
No no never Iam a fanatic fan...
I am only human and think as a human...not as a super mister or misses perfekt who doesn´t make any mistakes!!!!!

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 10:31
perhaps, the composer said to Tuomas I don´t want to hear it on some of your albums...
perhaps Tuomas asks him later if he can bring this song only on this End of the gig ..an d perhaps the composer say to him ok, only this one time I accept it, but only on this gig and not on a Disk or later at the DVd...
Perhaps perhaps...
Legeon no one of us here knows all the things who said and do behind the store..we all see only the Things who comes from TV Internet or Magazines... we all knows the written words( the Letter at Tarja , too)...but no one here knows the unwritten words, no one knows about the tings Tarja or Tuomas makes behind the store quiet and without the knows of us...
Tuomas say it to the world and official,straight out!!(with the Letter) But perhaps(only perhaps) Tarja makes so much bad things , who the Fans never knows.......
Who will know the real story?? You Legeon, will you tell us, you know the whole story of the bad Tuomas and the poor Tarja???
No one of us knows it..only the Band and their people...
So come on and hear the musik if you want it, or let it be if you think it is not good any more since Anette is in the band.

when its your opinion that the Band is a fallen star and Tuomas and Anette are guilty of it, than its ok for you...
but other people have an other opinion...thats life!!!!!

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 10:56
Tero said:

"Sometimes unfortunately the conversation just gets so absurd that it really doesn't matter what you say, you are either a NW-hater or Tarja-hater anyway. "
______________________

well, Tero, I must object here - because I have Maestro´s words burned in my very soul,
and those words say:

"I truly hate you ALL...!"

mermaid wrote on 23.09.2009 at 11:05
geez, some of you need to grow up and get a life. it's just a BAND, why do you guys even bother wasting so much energy in deffending/attacking the people behind the music? the music itself should be important, not the personas. if you want to deffent/attack this way, do it on politicians or other super-important people.
so they used their unreleased cover as an outro. "big f deal". it wasn't the most politically-correct move, but it wasn't oh-so rude either. the fans were curious about this cover, that was their only chance of hearing it and this is where it all ends. I can't see this as a start of an ego-war.
now lets move on, we got more important things to do...right? ;)

Shilla wrote on 23.09.2009 at 11:06
@Shilla

"the music itself should be important, not the personas."

tell that to the band,not us.

Comments like your have been posted and answered before,so do us all a favor and check some previous articles for answers instead of posting the same,unoriginal rant.

"get a life"

wow,NW fans are really original!
As i said before,NW must be really sad having people like you as fans.
Or they actually are happy,since this is exactly what they want:stupid puppets to do whatever they tell them and believe them and defend them no matter what.

If WE don't have a life by criticizing the,what makes you BETTER that you defend them,or attacking people that attack NW?
Someone who spends time to tell others that they should get a life is actually the one without life.

And please,next time use some REAL ARGUMENTS.

@celisajan

When did i say i know the truth?
What i said is that we judge them based on what they say and do,but NW fans attack Tarja based on what others wrote in a letter.
If you still can't see the difference,i can't do anything more.

Legeon wrote on 23.09.2009 at 11:25
legion
and you see what you want to see ... and nothing else..
Perhaps this letter based on things that Tarja did ...but you never seen it because she so intelligent to hide it so that the fans can´t see it in the first way!!!!!
If you look at more ways than your own , you will see that the world isn´t only black and white...
Bye I am tired of this endless and useless blabla..
At least
Nw is growing up with Tarja, thats a fact, and Anette is for someone here a dissapointment...
but when NW had starts with Anette and the people are to be used her and Tarja is the new singer...this real(hoho) Fans are dissapointet about this voice of Tarja, because the newone has a bad start if you loved the first singer... thats a fact!!!

Bye and have a nice day...Iam going to hear NW musik...the good old and the other but good in their way too ,new!!!!

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 12:02
If you read the text from 21.8.07 at mff,
you will see:
Tuomas already knews about the konsequenses of a new singer....and he can live with it!!!!
And I think he knews about the konsequenses as he make this outro
Do it like him, and take your own konsequenses for you, and live your own live instead judging above other human beeings who are not agree with you

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 13:08
Mingus said:"The haters are so funny! I love them! Best comedy show in town! :o) :o) :o)"

Thank you. :-) Btw which town are you referring to?

MFF reminds me to San Francisco for gay people in the 70ies. They were harrased and persecuted everywhere and finally found SF, their promised land. Similar is with us, new NW critics. We were persecuted everywhere for our criticism of new NW. I was for example repeatedly persecuted on Tarja's forum and even got banned on Therion forum for my criticism of new Nightwish. But finally I have found MFF, my promised land. :-)

Lumikki said: "[...] and the passion behind every show they play. "

And the fashion behind every show they play. :-p

celisajan said: "we all knows the written words( the Letter at Tarja , too)...but no one here knows the unwritten words, no one knows about the tings Tarja or Tuomas makes behind the store quiet and without the knows of us..."

I know, I'm The Seer. :-p

MFF Staff: San Francisco for gay people in the 70's? :D Oh my god we aren't that bad I hope XD

Tero
MFF

TheSeer wrote on 23.09.2009 at 14:01
How lovely, New NW fans try to say that people can't say a word against New NW, and if they say that, they are so rude and bad,maybe they mixed MFF with NW fan site. But it is not, and it will never be it.

And the thing that it should be "only about music" is so naive. It was NW that showed that it is not about music, but about drama, scandal and personal attacks. They put it this way, they are getting what they deserve, nothing extra.
"get a life" thing is also so naive to hear from people who spend their time to read comments they do not like and to answer these comments with hypocritical lectures.
I see that every Tuomas's public act no matter if it is cowardly, rude or disrespectful will be considered as something proper by NW fans. But not everybdoy here are drooling fans. So whinning about why people tell a lot not worshipping stuff here about New NW is really laughable.

Yes, this outro was a bad idea, quite selfish, there are lots of other songs or instrumental pieces they could have used - the ones that were not denied by the origianl composer.

MFF Staff: Yes MFF has nothing to do with NW or Tarja Turunen. We post news about every possible finnish rock and metalbands. So therefore accusing MFF of being somehow negative towards NW is purely rubbish. You all make these news what they are by commenting them the way you do. I don't complain really. There are comments we don't release but those are purely cause the content is very bad.

Tero
MFF

Luthien wrote on 23.09.2009 at 14:18
And the Oscar for the coolest person here
goes tooooooooooooooo...

The Seer for his cool and produktive comments ...
;-)

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 14:27
Tero, I know MFF has nothing to do with NW, that's why lots of people are here. If it would have been some NW fan site-board the only people who were here would be drooling fans. I know MFF is not pro or again any band here ;)

MFF Staff: Thank you!

Tero
MFF

Luthien wrote on 23.09.2009 at 14:47
Hi, Tero,

by the look of it you are entertaining yourself here NO END ...

How is your life going?

MFF Staff: Trust me mermaid...my entertainment comes from totally different sources :) But I am having fun of course.

Tero
MFF

mermaid wrote on 23.09.2009 at 14:54
Suggest you join the NW forum, they actually debating about the same "problem" reagrding the "outro".

Just to get it clear for some, maybe my position is not as "easy" for you simple dividers "pro vs contra" I love Nightwish 1.0 and Nightwish 2.0 ; I like Tarja as solo artist though some songs are not as "good"; I blame the band for firing her the way they did though it was a necessary decision. I read AO Blog but don't care about stuff I'm not interested in, I read Tarja Blog and regret she doesn't post at the same pace. I consider the DPP Tour as OK but not immense ( out of 25 shows I've seen with NW - yes, I can mail you the ticket stubs for proove - 12 were from DPP whereas only 5 were really good! ) I consider DPP as promising and hope the follow up album will be less "poppy" and "bombastic-orchestra-thing" I consider the NW management has done huge amateur-like mistakes in the management of the band, the organisation of the tour, the pace and for not taking action when needed ( e.g. continuing the Belo Horizonte show with Marco on vocals )...I don't think I will buy the AO solo album since it surely won't be the kind of music I like. And yes, I do listen to CC or OB volume up remembering how great the band was!

For all the NW haters: www.globaldomination.se - these are actually perfect critics! :-)

Now, leave me alone like "princess" said

OceanWithin wrote on 23.09.2009 at 14:59
I wouldn't be original, well if Maestro himself is not always original, then I shouldn't be ashamed of it. :)
I didn't like the cover. You know mainly because it sounds like another pop-rock song, with no extra goodies in it. I also respect the original composer's opinion and since he didn't like the version he knows better than Maestro himself! Still Maestro decided that he knew better than some Nyman dude :)
I'm also enjoying myself by imagining how adorable NNF would react if somebody made a cover of NW song, asked Maestro's permission to release it, Maestro also didn't like that and refused to grant them permission, but they would still play it live (as outro, intro, spintro, middletro) - the rage and swearing from NNF would have been huge! I don't doubt about that. But since it was Maestro who did this trick, NNF of course find it so very cute! And guys, you do not have to be surprised by another act of will from Maestro. His fans told him so many times how much they adore him and that he is such a God of music and poetry, that perhaps he already thinks he is. Though to my mind he" failed in becoming a God" :)

But the guy who really earns respects is Tero here, who is not taking any sides. Imagine how it would be, if the moderator here would have been another NNF? The Seer, honey, just imagine!

MFF Staff: I don't need respects. But thank you anyway! There has only been few incidents where I have struggled when it comes to posting news and that was months ago with Stratovarius after my brother left the band...now that was difficult. But I was able to remain objective also then so I don't think I will lose my sleep over NW and Tarja :)

Tero
MFF

The Riddler wrote on 23.09.2009 at 15:16
"I like Tarja as solo artist though some songs are not as "good""

Sure, and that is why you called her fat alien. You did it out of great love and respect. The thing is that people who give Olzon not nice names, do not pretend they like her at the same time. They are honest in that.

Vocie wrote on 23.09.2009 at 15:20
"I read Tarja Blog and regret she doesn't post at the same pace. "

Tarja's entries on blog are only related to music, writting new material, future concerts or past concerts, collaborations and etc. I'm very glad she does that, and not posts what she buys, eats, wears or how she goes to the loo every freaking day.

Unia wrote on 23.09.2009 at 15:26
@celisajan

Thanks for your words.I agree with you too!Lets keep on Rocking!

Jimmie wrote on 23.09.2009 at 15:35
Awful cover! Really awful! They really didn't need to play it cause it is awful :(

Pillar wrote on 23.09.2009 at 15:48
Riddler said:

"The Seer, honey, just imagine!"
__________________________

Well, I do not know, Seer, about how popular Phantom is,
but Riddler tends to admire you, too..

though he admited his feelings for Legeon.

mermaid wrote on 23.09.2009 at 15:55
Voice, if you read the following post after the "big fat alien" you'll find out that I said it was written on "purpose to choc". Though she is not my "Beuteschema" :-) she looks not like a bit fat aline of course. Hope that one is clear.

Unia, I actually was referring to "professional" posts, yes. I am not interested in Topshop, Gucci or recipies. Your point is valid. You don't have to get out this "pro-princess" thing on EVERY single word I write, don't you?

Regarding this Outro, you don't have to take out this "pro-princess-maestro-NNF-thing" when one thinks that, in his opinion, it was OK to do so. It's this person's opinion. Besides, as one mentioned, its not as good and goes in the "Escapist, For the Heart..." direction which is not my cup of tea though I appreciated the fact they actually did it. As long as you don't know why it was refused and why they played it from the concerned parties, everything is speculation and therefor up to each ones interpretation. What boggers me is more the fact that things are blown out of proportion too easily.

OceanWithin wrote on 23.09.2009 at 16:14
@the seer: i sincerely hope you don't reduce music to two songs! (that was a joke, i don't need an ansewer...bye!!)

hi wrote on 23.09.2009 at 16:21
"Voice, if you read the following post after the "big fat alien" you'll find out that I said it was written on "purpose to choc". Though she is not my "Beuteschema" :-) she looks not like a bit fat aline of course. Hope that one is clear. "

I read the following part as well. So if you think that it is smart and mature and witty first to call the person you pretend to like "fat alien" just to choc or provoke, and after that speculate on other people's childish behavior and lecture them, than I'm sorry but after that, words from such person can hardly be taken seriously or valid, since it is seen that you are prone to talk things in not honest or adequate way. After all one can never be sure if you saying it honestly this time or just want "to choc or provoke" again. It is simple logic.

Voice wrote on 23.09.2009 at 16:55
@OceanWithin...
grosses Grinsen...was ist nun das englische Wort für Beuteschema....
Ich weiss es auch nicht, und ich finde es verdammt schwer hier Dinge in Englisch zu schreiben, die ich selbst in Deutsch umschreiben muss....
Kurzum , ich selber bin weder auf der einen noch auf der anderen Seite, ich finde nur, das hier und auch überall rundrum in den entsprechenden Foren eine Menge aufgebauscht wird... und der Witz ist, wir wissen doch tatsächlich alle gar nicht was so tatsächlich Sache ist...wir bekommen ein Stück weit Situationen mit, machen uns unser eigenes Bild und interpretieren es für uns....
ob wir damit nun recht haben oder nicht...ist ja gar nicht das Problem...das Problem ist, das hier manche Scheuklappen tragen und alles recht einseitig sehen!!!
Ich finde Anette auch nicht besonders toll, aber NW bringt trotzallem weiterhin gute Musik raus(meine Meinung) auch wenn das nicht jeder hier so sieht!!
Und das Outro finde ich auch nicht besonders..aber ich glaube gar nicht wirklich das Tuomas es spielen liess um Mr Nyman zu zeigen das es ihm egal ist ob dieser seine Version mag oder nicht, sondern es kam mir eher experimentel vor....(ebenfalls einfach nur meine Meinung)

Tarja ist eine gute Sängerin und macht ihre eigene Karriere , also ist es doch gut das Tuomas sie raus gesetzt hat, denn man kann es auch anders sehen:
sie hat immer wieder betont sie braucht die Jungs nicht, Tuomas machte es ihr leicht und gab ihr die Chance dies zu beweisen..und er übernahm auch noch die Verantwortung und nahm somit den schwarzen Peter auf seine Schultern...
Sie hat so zeigen können das sie auch solo gut ist und er war eben der Böse, der sie kaltherzig abserviert hatte...(the Beast)
Mal ehrlich , hätte er warten sollen bis das sie ihm den finalen Tritt gibt und die Band sitzen lässt?????
Wer wäre denn dann der(die) Böse gewesen.....???

So now I feel good to write some words in German....in my own language it is easier to find the right words!!
now is the question...who can read and understand my words....hhhmmmm it doesn´t matter... ;-)

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 17:00
"Unia, I actually was referring to "professional" posts, yes. I am not interested in Topshop, Gucci or recipies. Your point is valid. You don't have to get out this "pro-princess" thing on EVERY single word I write, don't you?"

The point is that it is the real thing that she or any other performer posts entries in their blogs like that, giving the information mostly if not entirely related to their work, to music in this case. And that's why she posts not every day at fast pace. You know why? Because she is really working and does vocal practicing a lot, she doesn't have time for silly everyday posts just to blah,blah in blog and to kill time or indulge her show-off attitude. It is a professional's attitude, to post things on your work and only when it is due. So thanks God she is like that. Professionals do not yap about a lot, they really do things. And I'm writing to you for the second time perhaps, if not for the first, so I don't know what you mean by "every single time".

Unia wrote on 23.09.2009 at 17:11
"As long as you don't know why it was refused "

The most important fact about it is that original composer DIDN'T like their version - and he didn't like it so , that he even didn't let them put it on the album. Period. It doesn't matter if he didn't like vocals, guitars or smth else. He didn't like what they did to his music piece. And after that to play it live just to show people, that hey guys, we have it, we can do that...C'mon. How smart is that!

zoe wrote on 23.09.2009 at 17:22
@celisajon

Deutsch ist auch nicht gerade meine Muttersprache aber nun denn. Ich liebe dich. Du sprichst mir aus der Seele und habe nun endlich das Gefühl verstanden zu werden. ZUm allerersten Mal hier. Uff! :-)
Es wird alles soooooooo kompliziert und aufgebauscht wie du sagst. Keinen Platz für n'en Mittelweg oder so. Nein.

Wie schon gesagt, meine Meinung ist dass ich eben alle 3 mag, die alte Version, die Neue und die jute Tarja. Und bei allen Versionen gibt es, persönlich empfunden, Dinge zu meckern: NW- am Ende wirkte es nur noch gekünstelt, ONCE fand ich überproduziert und die EOAE DVD wirkt irgendwie "kalt" ( oder vieleicht weil die Geschichte bekannt ist. DPP hat einige gute Songs man hört das absolute Potential, klingt letzt endlich aber nicht so doll denn wieder überproduziert. Die DPP Tour war ne Achterbahnfahrt und nur die 2009 Gigs konnten überzeugen ( oder Oberhausen 2007 ). Die Medien habe viel zuviel Tralala gemacht und die Band ist darin reingefallen und hat auch Anette nicht allzugut unterstützt da sie das ganze Projekt DPP unterschätzt haben. Das Management hätte strikt eine NO TOUR Sperre aushängen müssen um der Zeit Zeit zu lassen. Anette legte sich manchmal zu kindisch an und unterschätzte die NW Fangemeinde und Metalanhänger ( auch hier ein Management Fehler ), die Südamerika Tour hätte nie stattfinden sollen da es noch viel zu früh war... Sumum schlieslich war die gegenseitige Aussage nach dem Belo Gig wo Tuomas und Anette der Sache nicht gewachsen war und das Management durch Abwesenheit glänzte. Anette's Blog ist ihre Sache, sie sagte es wäre privat so wie viele andere auch einen Blog haben...was solls, wer es mag soll es folgen. Ihr Soloporjekt ist mir egal denn es wird nicht meine Stilrichtung sein. Sie ist nicht mehr oder neiger eingebildtet als die Vorgängerin: wenn Tarja abseits stand, vieleicht auch weil sie sich nicht verstanden fühlte nicht weil sie sich besser vorkam - und dass Anette jetzt ein Soloalbum rausbringt macht sie auch nicht eingebildtet, sie muss ja auch sehen wie sie ihren Sohn füttert oder ihren Ruhestand absichert...etc.etc

Wie schon gesagt, es sollte mir egal sein aber ich verstehe nicht warum hier immer alles aus dem Kontext genommen wird. Diese Outro Geschichte ist...gähn, die Ice-Queen Schminkgeschichte ist...gähn. Boah!

So, ziehe mir jetzt auf den Heimweg " Oceanborn" rein

Bis die Tage

OceanWithin wrote on 23.09.2009 at 18:39
celisajan said: "And the Oscar for the coolest person here
goes tooooooooooooooo...

The Seer for his cool and produktive comments ...
;-)"

RockMan said: "@celisajan Thanks for your words.I agree with you too!Lets keep on Rocking!"

B-)

Too bad RockMan doesn't read my comments as he admitted to read only comments of NW talibans. That's very open-minded of him (Nightwish meaning). :-p

mermaid said: "Well, I do not know, Seer, about how popular Phantom is,
but Riddler tends to admire you, too..."

He calls everyone "honey, sugar, darling...".

hi said: "@the seer: i sincerely hope you don't reduce music to two songs! (that was a joke, i don't need an ansewer...bye!!)"

Well better that than reducing the whole music world to only one composer as NW talibans tend to do when commenting about Tarja "She is NOTHING without Tuomas and his skills". All I have to add is:

She is EVERYTHING without Tuomas. :-)

TheSeer wrote on 23.09.2009 at 18:44
Voice ( and others ): "Simple Logic" like you say is sooo not present in most comments here! You read and understand what you want of the news presented by MFF Team, suits me!Fine.Enjoy!Whatever....

And if you think that my german post to celisjan is about candy-sweet-princess-i-love-you stuff, you are wrong!

OceanWithin wrote on 23.09.2009 at 18:48
Is somebody here, who knows the whole background of this Outrostory???
Someone???
anyone???

No one here knows about, the complete agreement between the two men....
I think(or hope) that this guys get a talk about this outro and come to a arrangment.....

we all here talk about this thing and make a problem of it , and in the end Tuomas and Nyman are sitting somewhere to drink a cup of coffee and laughing about our dump idiotics comments..and they laugh about the stupid people who makes each others stories to their own big Problems!!!!!
No one of us is Nyman....so no one of us must feel kicked against the leg....
And if Nyman got a problem with this Outro, he would clear it with Tuomas and not with US!!!!!!
And if he is angry about the Outro , so he coul´d say to Tuomas personally that Tuomas is a bad and disrespectful guy!!!!
Nyman has the right to judge over this because it is his composition ..and not ours!!!

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 19:28
"Voice ( and others ): "Simple Logic" like you say is sooo not present in most comments here! You read and understand what you want of the news presented by MFF Team, suits me!Fine.Enjoy!Whatever...."

So you decided to join to other not-logical posts in such not noble and even worst way. It is not an excuse. Cause other people here didn't call names just to choc and pretend later that they in fact like those persons. That's the difference.

Voice wrote on 23.09.2009 at 19:29
Cover sucks! If Tuomas though that he is so cool and tough guy and can do whatever he wants he was very mistaking. It is disrespectful towards such wonderful composer as Nyman!

Metalfan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 19:32
"and in the end Tuomas and Nyman are sitting somewhere to drink a cup of coffee and laughing about our dump idiotics comments..and they laugh about the stupid people who makes each others stories to their own big Problems!!!!! "

Nyman would sit and drink coffee with another person whose'version of Nyman's song he didn't like and didn't want it to be put on album? Yeah right. And like somebody was shouting here, no one of them reads comments here, so your post is pointless. Do not make up stories yourself, if you try to be the saint here, lol

Z. wrote on 23.09.2009 at 19:36
@OceanWithin
Ich werde hier ja auch der HEP Armee zugeordnet...grins..
und ich amüsier mich prächtig ,denn die sache ist die, genauso wie bei dir..ich mag auch alle 3....und im Prinzip ist es mir völlig egal was Anette privat macht oder was sie für Klamotten trägt, ob Tuomas mal in Tarja oder vielleicht Tarja in Tuomas verliebt war.. und ob Marco den Text mal vergisst, oder Anette mal bei einem Gig völlig überfordert ist, stört mich ehrlich gesagt auch nicht... ich bin einfach nur begeistert vom Sound, von den Texten und ich liebe es einfach nur die Musik -fühlen- zu können
und ich behaupte das geht auch bei den neuen Liedern..es ist anders zugegeben, aber deswegen nicht schlecht!!!
Kurzum, wir zwei können hier den anderen erzählen was wir wollen, sie sind blind für alles andere ausser ihrer Meinung...
Ich ärgere mich nicht mal darüber..es bringt mich eher zum grinsen wie sie sich in ihrer Meinung verbeissen und wie verzweifelt sie nach weiteren Beleidigungen suchen um andere nieder zu machen... ist schon traurig!!
Liebe Grüsse
And now I am drinking a good red wine and listen to the perfect musik(my opinion) of the majestro.....and go on to headbanging .....yeaaaah

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 19:43
the seer said: "
hi said: "@the seer: i sincerely hope you don't reduce music to two songs! (that was a joke, i don't need an ansewer...bye!!)"

Well better that than reducing the whole music world to only one composer as NW talibans tend to do when commenting about Tarja "She is NOTHING without Tuomas and his skills". "

the seer, please don't quote me for your last post. Tuomas is not my favourite compositer and i agree that tarja has her GREAT own carreer. i just gave my opinion on TWO songs. btw i do not disagree with you...

hi wrote on 23.09.2009 at 19:43
@Z
If he don´t like the cower doesn´t mean that he don´t like Tuomas...so why in hell you think that they wouldn´t sit together to drink a coffee???
Logic....????
You are a good friend of Nyman?? you seems to know him so well...haha
And the saints here...hhm are the holy and everright people who knows all and knows all better...*laugh*
I am only a woman who is sitting at her PC and smile about this thread...it helps me to learn some english and it helps to learn something about the human psychology...
Thanks guys and
Yes I hear the NEW NW and I like it!!! So ok I am outet .
tar and feather me!!!!!
...but I like Tarja and the old NW , too...so now, in which drawer you grab me ????

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 20:01
Nightwish doesn´t earn a nickel by using their recorded version of "heart,,,". They did it for the fans, something special for a special moment. Now, what bothers me is a big assed bandy legged parasite bitch that makes a careere and a living out of performing Tuomas and Nightwish songs. This bitch wanted her own solo careere and when she got it she parasites on Tuomas composisions. Tarja, can you possibly sink any lower? No I think you hit rockbottom. Pathetic.

Wrathchild wrote on 23.09.2009 at 20:03
"Nightwish Taliban"

Are you all going mad here?

WTF, are you going nuts or what. Do you want Nightwish fans to wear pink David stars embroided on their clothes with "NWFan" in gothic caracters below????

To the guy who wrote that: You clearly have some serious issues and earn my disrespect

OceanWithin wrote on 23.09.2009 at 20:06
"If he don´t like the cower doesn´t mean that he don´t like Tuomas...so why in hell you think that they wouldn´t sit together to drink a coffee???
Logic....???? "

And why in hell you think he wants to sit with him and drinks coffee? Only because you want it this way or you know Nyman so good? You have no point and it doesn't matter if you are a woman with PC trying to learn language. Besides you are connected with Hep Hep army if I understood your German and that already tells everything about you, as about Olzon's fan.

Z. wrote on 23.09.2009 at 20:21
@Wratchild
(know they will come to tar and feather you ;-) )

yes your right..Tarja sings the old Nightwish songs again and again, solo on the stage...
she sings songs written by the hand of this bad and bitter Tuomas..she sing his words......words from a man who blame this woman
If he is so a bad guy and hurt her so much...why she sings this songs?????

Denkpause......

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 20:29
wrathchild

Actually Tarja is only playing 3 NW songs now...She has reduced them.
But i really believe you just post here to provoke reactions...Ok,then.

Oh,and by the way,this "parasite" you're reffering to,has sold out shows in all the planet.

Legeon wrote on 23.09.2009 at 21:02
Now I'll write one anwser in german, because I'm answering to a german comment, sorry to those who don't understand it ;-)

celisajan:"Tarja ist eine gute Sängerin und macht ihre eigene Karriere , also ist es doch gut das Tuomas sie raus gesetzt hat, denn man kann es auch anders sehen:
sie hat immer wieder betont sie braucht die Jungs nicht, Tuomas machte es ihr leicht und gab ihr die Chance dies zu beweisen..und er übernahm auch noch die Verantwortung und nahm somit den schwarzen Peter auf seine Schultern...
Sie hat so zeigen können das sie auch solo gut ist und er war eben der Böse, der sie kaltherzig abserviert hatte...(the Beast)
Mal ehrlich , hätte er warten sollen bis das sie ihm den finalen Tritt gibt und die Band sitzen lässt?????
Wer wäre denn dann der(die) Böse gewesen.....??? "

Hallo :) Also, was den Rest deines Kommentars angeht, bin ich zwar nicht unbedingt deiner Meinung, kann aber nachvollziehen, was du meinst. Ich finde auch, dass hier ziemlich viel aufgebauscht wird, aber im Kern haben die Kommentare - meiner Meinung nach - trotzdem meistens recht. Ich finde es nicht gut, dass Tuomas den Song trotz Ablehnung des Komponisten gespielt hat, wie Anette sich in ihrem Blog und auf der Bühne gibt etc. - aber du hast Recht, ein ganz so großes Drama ist es nicht. Die Übertreibungen hier sind aber, glaube ich, in der Regel mit voller Absicht und eher aus Spaß geschrieben. ;-)

Wie auch immer: bei dem zitierten Absatz stand mir wirklich nur noch der Mund offen. Das ist, Verzeihung, totaler Quatsch. Sie hat "immer wieder betont, sie brauche die Jungs nicht". Bitte, wann das? Ich kenne nur den im Brief zitierten Satz, den wir ohne Kontext und nur aus Tuomas Erzählung kennen. Wann hat sie sonst je so etwas behauptet, vor 2005? Zumindest ein Zitat wäre jawohl zwingend, wenn du von "immer wieder" redest.

Tuomas "hat es ihr leicht gemacht"?Wie viel schwerer geht es denn noch?! Er hat Millionen von Menschen erzählt, sie sei eine gierige Diva, nicht wirklich an der Musik interessiert, sondern nur am Geld etc. Ergebnis: Tarja wird in der Metalwelt in Anbetracht ihrer Leistungen weniger ernst genommen als sie sollte, man liest immer wieder Kommentare - ob auf youtube oder sonstwo - die den Inhalt des Briefes wörtlich wiederholen - ich selber habe Kommentare gelesen wie "Schöne Stimme, scheiß Charakter, die unterstütz ich bestimmt nicht" - allein der finanzielle Verlust muss enorm sein.
Und was das für einen psychisch bedeutet, möchte ich gar nicht wissen. ICH möchte nicht, dass jemand meine Fehler ins Internet stellt - wobei es natürlich bei mir als Nicht-Promi Gott sei Dank nicht Millionen von Menschen interessieren würde - selbst wenn ich sie wirklich habe, aber umso schlimmer, wenn nicht! Noch dazu von einem Tag auf den anderen, wahrscheinlich wurde sie nun von denselben Leuten gehasst, die ihr einen Tag vorher noch zugejubelt haben. Ich kann mir nicht viel Schlimmeres vorstellen - und du sagst, das sei leicht gewesen?! Ich kanns echt nicht fassen.

Dass Tarja inzwischen mehr als Opfer gesehen wird, ist eine ganz allmähliche Entwicklung, die auf Nightwish's Benehmen in den letzten Jahren und ihr professionelles Verhalten zurückzuführen ist. Zunächst mal war das ganz anders, und sie war "die Böse"!

Ob er warten sollte, bis sie geht? Wenn er nicht wollte, natürlich nicht. Er hätte ihr ins Gesicht sagen sollen, wenn du gehst, dann brauchst du wegen dem einen Album auch nicht mehr zu bleiben, tschüss. Sie hätten auf der Internetseite verkünden können, dass sie sich nicht mehr verstehen, vllt auch jeder seine Seite erklären können, und gut ist. Es hätte keinen Menschen mehr interessiert.

Es muss bei einer Trennung ein Band nicht einer der oder die böse sein. Hunderte von Bands trennen sich, und so eine Seifenoper gibts kaum mal. Und das es dazu gekommen ist, ist ganz eindeutig Tuomas' Schuld.

Earwen wrote on 23.09.2009 at 21:42
"If he is so a bad guy and hurt her so much...why she sings this songs?????"

Because once they were written for her voice (with her voice in mind for them) and recorded with her on vocals. And she performed them live when she was in the band.

Legeon,
celisajan, Wratchild and OceanWithin are just Anette's fans and New NW fans, so they are all here just to provoke, they can't do anything else :))

Swanheart wrote on 23.09.2009 at 21:46
Ha,ha, they played a cover which original composer even didn't like and he let them know that he didn't like it, but they still played it. Ha,ha they must be very bigheaded.

Troy wrote on 23.09.2009 at 21:48
@legion
she had sold out shows...ok
with songs from Nightwish(not only NW songs ..)....what a funny story...
If she can live without Nightwish,if she is so a good soloshow-woman, why she needs to sing NW songs?????
I like her voice and I don´t want to look for trouble, because she is a good singer, I know it, but Legeon..realize it Tarja isn´t the Angel in this story... in german we say: sie hat es faustdick hinter den Ohren ;-)

Tuomas would have a reason to take her out of the band...
the way he did isn´t gentlemanlike..yes..but I think she wasn´t a lady everyday during her time by NW

Oh god this is a Drama better than all you can see on TV...

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 22:16
"If she can live without Nightwish,if she is so a good soloshow-woman, why she needs to sing NW songs????? "

Because she likes some of them,geez, as those songs were recorded with her voice and she partly put herself into those songs when she recorded them or performed them live.

"she wasn´t a lady everyday during her time by NW "

She wasn't perfect everyday. But she didn't fire anybody through open letter behind this person back, leaving all the blame on this very person. Tuomas's reasons that were in the letter for firing look very funny, especially now and very questionable.

$am wrote on 23.09.2009 at 22:53
@celisajan

"with songs from Nightwish(not only NW songs ..)....what a funny story...
If she can live without Nightwish,if she is so a good soloshow-woman, why she needs to sing NW songs????? "

She doesn't sell out her shows because of NW songs.In a total of 17-18 songs she sings only 3,and in most times one of them isn't an original NW song.
So,if you say that she sells because of NW's 3 songs,then i can easily say that NW also sell because of WITA or Phantom Of The Opera(once...)
Saying that her value as a solo show-woman is measured by those 3 from 17 songs is unfair to say the least.

She sings them because her fans want her too.Most of her fans learned her from NW,so it's natural and respectful of her to play them.
(Now,i know you're gonna say that NW were also respectful for playing Nyman cover,because their fans wanted to,but it wasn't their song.Tarja contributed in all those songs she's singing).

Besides,Tarja has only one album of her own(not counting the X-Mass album),so she can't fill one setlist solely with her own songs.

Finally,Bruce Dickinson also used to sing Iron Maiden songs in his solo shows.I don't think ANYONE ever questioned his value as a solo performer.

Legeon wrote on 23.09.2009 at 23:44
I guess the right for Tarja to sing old Nw song is a legal compensation she got for having being treated so injustly. It proves just that Tuomas is considered an asshole also in front of the Law.

TT wrote on 23.09.2009 at 23:51
@Earwin
Vielen lieben dank für die deutsche antwort
Weisst du was ??
Ich glaube, also dies ist nur das was ich so denke(also kein Fakt)
diese Aktion mit dem Brief war ein Angriff aus der Ecke heraus...
Tarja mag nach aussen die kühle diskrete und auch die verletzte und überrannte in dieser Geschichte sein...
Aber kann es nicht sein, das sie hinter der Fassade ganz anders geredet und agiert hat???
Stille Wasser sind tief...
wer weiss wie sehr sie Tuomas tatsächlich hinter den Kulissen gereizt und auch hängen gelassen hat...sie wusste das NW sein Heiligtum ist und sie wusste auch das sie die jenige war deren Stimme NW so hoch hat kommen lassen...
wer sagt das sie dies nicht ausgenutzt hat...und Tuomas irgendwann einfach nur noch bedient war???
wäre das nicht auch eine Sichtweise???(also nicht gleich auf Angriff gehen, es ist nur ein Gedankensprung von mir, und kein Fakt)
Nein,
manche sehen nur was der böse Tuomas da geschrieben hat und das er sie blamiert hat.
Ich gebe dir vollkommen recht, das diese Art und Weise von Tuomas keine Heldentat war und ich war anfangs selber sauer auf ihn....(denn ich liebe ihre Stimme).
Aber ich habe bei all dem hier (und auch in anderen Foren immer wieder das Gefühl man sucht regelrecht nach neuen Fehlern , die Nw begehen können um sich daran hoch zu ziehen um immer noch nach 4 Jahren Tarja auf den Thron zu heben .
Es ist schwer für mich all das in Englisch zu schreiben, aber ich bin weder ein beführworter der Hep Armee noch ein Tarja Gegner... ich wollte mit meinen Worten nur rüberbringen, das es nicht nur schwarz und weiss gibt,
und vor allem finde ich es verdammt traurig, das Leute die trotz allem immer noch gerne und vorallem auch die neuen Lieder hören, als dumme Kinder hingestellt werden die auf eine Poptussi stehen und keine Ahnung von Musik haben....
Ich höre NW seit 2000, mein Mann brachte mich drauf und ich war echt enttäuscht von der Neuen..Anette war so gar nicht mein Ding , aber die Musik, der Sound und die Texte gefallen mir immer noch verdammt gut und auch ihre Stimme ist nicht halb so schlimm wie sie von vielen dargestellt wird...und ich werds weiterhören, und das nicht weil Tuomas der Maestro ist(grins) sondern weil ich einfach die Musik mag, egal ob die Bandmitglieder schwul , Alkoholiker,selbsternannte Iceköniginnen oder Kleinwüchsige sind
Warum wird nach 4 Jahren immer noch eine Hetzjagd gemacht...
Hier wird immer geredet wie unfair Tuomas ist...sei mal ehrlich...Unfairness wird hier doch auch jede Menge praktiziert.... wer also frei von Schuld ist...der werfe den ersten Stein!!!
Danke das du mir in Deutsch geantwortet hast und wie bereits erwähnt, mir geht es gar nicht darum wer Böse oder wer gut ist....sondern ob wir die hier rumdiskutieren nicht selber die Grenzen von gut und böse jeder für sich sehr in seine eigene Richtung zieht um es sich selber passend zu machen..wir haben nicht das Recht zu richten, wenn wir selber schon gar nicht mehr merken wie ungerecht wir ab und an sind!!!!!!
So und nun werd ich hier rausgehen, denn es führt zu nichts, ausser das ich mal wieder in meinem Englisch Wörterbuch gelesen habe...

celisajan wrote on 23.09.2009 at 23:56
OceanWithin said: "I consider DPP as promising and hope the follow up album will be less "poppy" and "bombastic-orchestra-thing""

The only thing non-bombastic-orchestra-thing-like on DPP was Anette, so if they fire her, then we will have a bombastic-orchestra-thing-like album. I would like that. :)

Jaussi wrote on 23.09.2009 at 23:56
"The only thing non-bombastic-orchestra-thing-like on DPP was Anette, so if they fire her, then we will have a bombastic-orchestra-thing-like album. I would like that. :)"

Agreed. The bombastic-orchestra-thing-like album without any Anette in sight looks like wonderful thing to me!

Esme wrote on 24.09.2009 at 01:34
@legion and sam

Please don´t misunderstand me...
If got no problems when she sings NW songs...
She has a good voice und it sounds good
My question here is: When a man like Tuomas write and compose songs, and then he fired the singer, and he blamed her and treea her really bad,
why she sings HIS songs???And these are his songs, anyway for what a voice he composed it!!!!
When Iam in Tarjas Position and feeled treat like bad and greedy Diva...Iam so proud and say : Cut, never more Tuomas, no no never, he is an asshole and Iam proud enough to say no nonnever no more sing i songs from this Asshole, Iam good enough to go my way and sing my OWN songs!!
If she make it that way!
If someone hurts me sooo hard like tuoams did, (alleged)
then I kicked him in his Ass and don´t want anything from him....nothing..also no songs!!!!!
We all see this situation harder than it´s really is.... and make a big Ballon of it...
We make 2 Armees...in our heads...
I love Tarja and I hear her ..and i hear Nw and I think this Outro was lousy... but it is no Problem for me as a NW-Fan..I can live with it...
can you????

celisajan wrote on 24.09.2009 at 08:56
"When a man like Tuomas write and compose songs, and then he fired the singer, and he blamed her and treea her really bad,
why she sings HIS songs???And these are his songs, anyway for what a voice he composed it!!!! "

Because she once told that though he treated her really bad, she wouldn't want it to cast a shadow on the music they made together, meaning it doesn't affect how she feels about the songs she sang while in the band. She likes those songs, and she was working on them vocally (they were composed for her voice, were recorded with her voice and most of them were performed live with her voice). Also there are songs that she feels to be too personal to perform like Ever Dream and Ghost Love Score, and though fans like to hear thema lot (she said several times herself that GLS is one of her fav. songs), and fans asked her to sing them, she didn't perform them live.
Besides, it is partly her voice that made them so special, and it was always praised before, not only by fans but by reviewers and even Tuomas himself as well.
And the thing is I never heard Tuomas saying that he didn't like her covers and do not want them to be released in any way. In fact she may record some of the performances of those songs on video even.:))
And the situation with Nyman was quite different, cause in this case original composer expressed openly that he didn't like the cover of his song and that's why he didn't give them permit to release it.

Esme wrote on 24.09.2009 at 10:08
Jon

Thanks for your reply. I understood you. :)

I do agree with you and I think also that it would have seemed more noble to play Michael Nyman's original piece than their cover. Because in that case it also would have been a sign of respect towards Nyman as the composer and his music, and also a sign that there are no hurt feelings for Nyman's not liking NW's version. But in this situation it ended in the way that it seemed there were indeed hurt feelings from Tuomas's side that original composer didn't like their version and didn't want them to release it. As you said "it does seem very much Tuomas wanting to have the last word again". At least it kinda gives this feeling, and, as I see, to many people. :( And the second half of disappointment is as you also noted that this cover sounds a lot like For The Heart I Once Had, or like somebody also noted here, like usual pop-rock song. That's too boring. Especially when original piece is so very beautiful.

Leon wrote on 24.09.2009 at 10:25
celisajan said: "If he is so a bad guy and hurt her so much...why she sings this songs?????"

Because of me. I like when she sings old NW songs. :-)

Legeon said: "Now,i know you're gonna say that NW were also respectful for playing Nyman cover,because their fans wanted to,but it wasn't their song.Tarja contributed in all those songs she's singing"

And Maestro liked the way Tarja sang them. Unlike Nyman, who did NOT like NW cover of his song.

celisajan said: "and I think this Outro was lousy... but it is no Problem for me as a NW-Fan..I can live with it...
can you????"

I also think the outro was lousy but as NW basher I can't live with it. :-p
:-D

TheSeer wrote on 24.09.2009 at 11:16
Guess what... Princess says they sent the song to Nyman "and he didn't like it at all". AT ALL.
And still... they decided to make it public.

Kiri wrote on 24.09.2009 at 18:41
Apologies to anyone I didn't respond to if they replied to my posts here. Been busy. I won't be replying, as with Nightwish finally buggering off for a while I am going to go post about some much better Finnish music, like Insomnium and Swallow The Sun. Also it takes so long to scroll down all these comments! hope everyone does the same so that MFF doesn't just become a ghost town until the next Nightwish album. See you on some other channel.

MFF Staff: Oh don't worry about anything Jon :) You know the site was very succesfull even before we had comments here so I think we can take the absence of Nightwish...besides...isn't Tarja starting her tour at some point so we'll have plenty to post here from her!

Tero
MFF

Jon wrote on 24.09.2009 at 20:34
Except for one last thing...Leon, thanks for your response again :) Nightwish haven't learned the art of the cover - either do it very well the way the original artist did it, or do it in your own style with some creativity. You'll find all the best covers do one of the two! Catch you on some other news board mate

Jon wrote on 24.09.2009 at 20:39
Jon said: "Also it takes so long to scroll down all these comments!"

Have you been to that thread with 650 comments? :-D

Kiri said: "Guess what... Princess says they sent the song to Nyman "and he didn't like it at all". AT ALL.
And still... they decided to make it public."

She said that in her blog I guess?
And not only they decided to make it public, but both Maestro & Princess say in the media that Nyman didn't like it. AT ALL. They just WANT new media drama. And then Jon accuses media to be the guilty ones for NW drama.

TheSeer wrote on 24.09.2009 at 21:32
The song is slick. And the original composer is a retard, for not allowing them, to release it on the album.

DeadAndGone wrote on 24.09.2009 at 22:13
OceanWithin: Lord K Philipsson (who wrote the NW reviews on globaldomination.se) is not a hater. He just had fun with the NW fans who can't take any criticism and write hate mail to anyone who dares say anything bad about Tuomas or Marco. :-p

He does love old NW. But he doesn't like Once and DPP. He considers the music on DPP (Tuomas's compositions, that is!) worthless, doesn't like Marco's voice and likes Anette's voice, but also Tarja's. Well, he'd only heard Anette on the album, not live. ;-)

It seems like you're just chicken and pulling out, now that you are suddenly claiming that you just "wanted to shock".

Anette's blog is not private, it is public. This has been pointed out before.

Tarja didn't want to let the band down. She'd announced, in private, that she'd stay for another album, so they could have had enough time to find a decent replacement. But that was not enough for Tuomas: He had to anticipate her and destroy her reputation. That's the problem that you refuse to understand.

The phrase "NW taliban" is derived from the insult "Tarja taliban" that keeps being hurled at people who criticise NW.

Why do you make rumours and speculation about Tarja now? Stick to the facts (remember: the damage done to Tarja's reputation is a FACT).

celisajan: The most important reason why Tarja still sings NW songs is that the FANS want it.

Wrathchild: Not that I think you understand this, but of course NW make money by playing that song. They played it at a concert where thousands of people PAID.

You know what? IF they would really only have wanted to provide the song to the fans, they could simply have put it on theytheir website for free download! (I don't think the original composer can prevent that legally.) But no, they only played the song for fans who have PAID. (The recording from that event do not really provide any meaningful quality, barely enough to say that the song sucks, apparently.) Who has the commercial orientation here?

Almagest wrote on 24.09.2009 at 22:43
OceanWithin: BTW, seeing that you are referring to discussions led on the NW forum, your claim that you're not a NNF isn't really very convincing ...

Also, your speculation about Tarja is in stark contradiction with facts and assertions from the people themselves (Tuomas didn't consider NW his "Heiligtum" - sanctuary - before his sudden change of mind, Tarja didn't let him down, she had put up with a lot of shit recording and touring with NW when they were still a totally unknown band), so your attempt to turn the tables around and put the blame on Tarja doesn't work. It is YOU who keeps looking for mistakes based in nothing but what-if fantasy, not the NW critics, we just criticise what is in plain sight.

I think you guys are just pretending to be "neutral", while trying to discredit, villainise and ridiculise the critics so that you needn't (feel pressure to) address the issues they are raising.

It doesn't matter jackshit if NW critics are overexcited and underfucked nerds with no life, have an altar dedicated to Diva and wank off five times daily in front of it, throw darts at posters and pierce voodoo puppets of Anette and the NW guys ...

ONLY ARGUMENTS MATTER.

Some of the "haters" posting negative comments could be NW members themselves who are bored and having fun and fooling around "just for teh lulz", who cares as long as they make valid points?

Almagest wrote on 24.09.2009 at 23:23
DeadAndGone said: "The song is slick. And the original composer is a retard, for not allowing them, to release it on the album. "

We're obviously dealing with another NW die-hard taliban ready to bite for his beloved Maestro. EVEN at such names like Michael Nyman!

TheSeer wrote on 25.09.2009 at 00:47
Esme: In fact, Tarja arranged all her vocals. She may not have been involved in the songwriting, but she had a very great influence on the eventual sound of the songs. Sometimes, she has even contributed ideas of her own.

__________________________________________________
Did you have to do any compromises for ONCE as far as your vocals are concerned? I mean, did some of your thoughts and visions about some vocal parts differ from those what Tuomas had originally been thinking for some certain songs?

He-he... now when you are asking this, there's one song on the album which caused some serious conversation between him and me. That song in question was "The Siren". There's some chanting parts in that song that, believe me or not, have been done by me, ha-ha!! Both Tuomas and me were thinking that this song missed something; something that could be sort of reflect some Middle Eastern vibes musically. Then I started, kind of like for my own fun, imitate some Eastern type of signing which I had never done in my life before, kind of my own speaking voice yelling to Tuomas: "Hey Tuomas, what if I sang this way... ". And right from that very second Tuomas commanded me: "That's EXACTLY what this song really needs...!! Now where the hell is a tape recorder... and microphone, etc!", ha-hah! So that Eastern type of part turned out very improvised and spontaneous way for that particular song and I'm actually quite surprised myself that I was capable of creating that type of thing for it like out from nowhere. I guess many people may not even realize that it's actually me behind that voice when they get a chance to hear the song. I really am very proud of that specific part myself.

Source: http://www.metal-rules.com/interviews/Nightwish-June2004.htm

I did NOT realise this is really Tarja's voice for a long time.

Almagest wrote on 25.09.2009 at 02:27
Lol...some fan you are...

___________________________________________________

Note to MFF's staff: I think you guys have a bit too wide perception, of the term "constructive criticism". To put it simple : Get rid of the trolls, who are regullary spamming your board. If they are fans, I'm the Chineese president.

DeadAndGone wrote on 25.09.2009 at 12:45
I didn't know that either! This just further shows that Tavvja was the heart of Niftgish! We should erect a statue for her honor!!1

TAVJA4LYFE wrote on 25.09.2009 at 12:54
@DeadAndGone

Who said that this place is only for fans?
This isn't the NW forum,no matter how hard some people like you try to make it one.

You want to talk about trolls?
Ok,let's talk about trolls.
Especially someone called wrathchild who calls Tarja "bitch" in a NW article with no reason.

But you weren't referring to him,right?
Only the ones that bash NW.

Get rid of your hypocrisy.

Legeon wrote on 25.09.2009 at 13:22
"Only" ....? I've yet to see at least one. Everything else is pointless babble and random insults towards the band. Which to my knowledge is trolling.

And why should I care for someone, calling Tarja "bitch" ?
A good 75% world population, consisting of pure garbage....you can expect this to happen. My rant is about, the increasing amount of such "online heroes" in the NW related topics. And the careless behaviour of the administration, that's it.
It's clear that NW gets much more of this s**t, compared to Tarja or anyone else.
But you were only reffering to her, right?

Come on, teach me about hypocrisy ... :-P

DeadAndGone wrote on 25.09.2009 at 17:07
"My rant is about, the increasing amount of such "online heroes" in the NW related topics. And the careless behaviour of the administration, that's it. "

Nice, first this person called Michael Nyman himself retard.
Now he complains that MFF is not like NW fan site forum and that MFF moderators act not in the way NW fan would like them to. Tero is a great guy, he doesn't deserve it.

Luthien wrote on 25.09.2009 at 17:18
@DeadAndGone

"t's clear that NW gets much more of this s**t, compared to Tarja or anyone else."

Ever wondered why?
It's because Tarja doesn't cause scandals,doesn't talk bad about other artists,doesn't post about 5 times per day about hr shopping,and only talks about music.
In other words:she doesn't give us any reason to criticize her.

BTW,if you go to her articles,you'll see that i actually posted something not to praising about her vocal qualities.
So,before lecturing me again,have some clue first of what really goes on.

What you were saying about hypocrisy?

Legeon wrote on 25.09.2009 at 17:21
Legeon. C´mon! Tarja doesn´t give reasons to critisize her?! First of all, for an middle aged woman she looks ridicilous when she "headbangs". Middle age women shouldn´t "headbang". They might stumble backwards ( hmm, if you know what I meen !) Second, on these kind of forums she seems like some kind of superstar when the fact is she can´t even sell out a 200 people venue. And third but not least. When a amature and incompetant greek promoter fucked things up on that Nightwish gig and the band got pissed of,,,don´t blame Anette. Blame the lousy promoter. I know your hate against Anette is personal cos´you´re from greece too. She only said what the whole band was thinking. AND IT WAS NOT AGAINST GREECE OR THE GREEK PEOPLE! It was against that idiot promoter but the words didn´t come out right. Cappice?

Wrathchild wrote on 25.09.2009 at 19:42
@wrathchild

"middle aged woman she looks ridicilous when she "headbangs". Middle age women shouldn´t "headbang"."]

1)Tarja is MUCH younger than Anette.And not,you aren't a middle-aged women in your 32.
Check the definition of middle-age.
2)This is the reason why Anette doesn't headbang?
3)So Doro and Ford and Lewis are ridiculous huh?

"she seems like some kind of superstar when the fact is she can´t even sell out a 200 people venue."

I don't know about 200,but she sells out a 5000 people venue.

"When a amature and incompetant greek promoter fucked things up on that Nightwish gig and the band got pissed of,,,don´t blame Anette. Blame the lousy promoter."

Actually that "amateur" promoter,one month after the NW organized a Kamelot concert which kicked ass.

Legeon wrote on 25.09.2009 at 22:14
Legeon. If you´re over 25 you´re old. That´s a fact.

MFF Staff: Wratchild...that is exactly what I also thought when I was 16. But once you are on your 30's you'll realize that the age is just a number. Don't worry...your time will come.

Tero
MFF

Wrathchild wrote on 25.09.2009 at 23:56
"Middle age women shouldn´t "headbang"."

Sharon den Adel is 35 and she headbangs a lot and it looks cool! She is not supposed to headbang too?! O_o
I get it, you are just saying it, cause Anette Olzon can't headband at all and doesn't do it :)

WT_Forever wrote on 26.09.2009 at 00:34
@wrathchild

"If you´re over 25 you´re old. That´s a fact."

No,it's not a fact.

But let's accept your term.
"old",maybe.Still,not middle-age.Why is it so difficult to get it?Maybe when YOU reach a proper age will realize that.

And finally,you accept that Anette is old?
Finally.

Legeon wrote on 26.09.2009 at 02:23
NNFs are REALLY amusing.

Wrathchild: Posts a troll post and insults of Tarja.

[...]

DeadAndGone: Insults Nyman.

Me: Shoots some points down.

Me: Shoots more points down.

TheSeer: Points the insult out.

Me: Gives some more facts and quotes an interview with Tarja. I'm not sure how my post could be construed as anything but constructive.

DeadAndGone: Complains of trolls.

TAVJA4LYFE alias OceanWithin (according to Jon, who has never denied that he actually meant to say they are the same): Posts a troll post.

By the way, I've heard there are actually plans of a statue for Tarja in Brazil. Perhaps right next to that well-known one of Jesus, to achieve gender equality here, too? ;-)

Almagest wrote on 26.09.2009 at 02:46
Oh, and now Wrathchild insults the Greek promoter ... how sweet. Seems he just can't do without insults. But Jon accuses us NW critics as being too lenient toward to people who insult Anette, NW or NNFs? How was that about putting your own house in order first? Jon has never mentioned Wrathchild even once.

Almagest wrote on 26.09.2009 at 02:54
Legeon.Anette´s old? No, I was talking about Tarja. Middle aged women should not headbang. It looks ridiculous.

w wrote on 26.09.2009 at 10:38
I propose Hans Zimmer and Michael Nyman to become honorary members of the Nightwish Demolition Crew (consisting at the moment of mermaid, Legeon, Almagest & me). The first one for inviting Tarja to his LA Studios and for introducing her to his creative team and the second one for disliking Maestro's lousy cover and for refusing to give his permition for the publication of it. :-)

TheSeer wrote on 26.09.2009 at 11:36
@wrathchild

"Middle aged women should not headbang."

Yey!You just found another thing to insult Tarja!!!Good for you,i suppose in 10 years from now you may be able to put together an argument...

32 isn't middle age.
But if Tarja,being 32,is middle aged,what it Anette then?

But just admit it:you would say the same if Tarja was 16:
"no teenage girl should headbang".

You just want to insult Tarja,and you make up stupid reasons for it.
You would say that anything Tarja and all other REAL metal singers do and Anette doesn't that are ridiculous.

I'm pretty positive the next thing you're gonna say will be about long gowns.
"Tall women that are metal singers shouldn't wear long gothic gowns".

To everyone who was lecturing us for being negative and hypocritical:

You are the hypocrites yourselves,because you attack us but you have nothing to say when someone says "Tarja is middle-aged".

Nw fan base=reign of hypocrisy,with Anette as their "princess".

Legeon wrote on 26.09.2009 at 15:52
Wrathchild said: "Legeon.Anette´s old? No, I was talking about Tarja. Middle aged women should not headbang. It looks ridiculous."

And old women should not wear thigh high boots. They look slutty.

TheSeer wrote on 26.09.2009 at 16:22
The seer. Well, I kinda like sluts. I´m a bad boy.

Wrathchild wrote on 26.09.2009 at 19:25
Legeon.THIRTY2, THIRTY8. Who cares.They´re both old.

Wrathchild wrote on 26.09.2009 at 19:29
@Wrathchild

So,you admit that you like an old slut.

Ok,good to know.

Legeon wrote on 26.09.2009 at 20:10
Wrathchild said: "The seer. Well, I kinda like sluts. I´m a bad boy."

Now I understand why you don't like Tarja. :-p

TheSeer wrote on 26.09.2009 at 20:18
@wrathchild

"Well, I kinda like sluts."

Yes,like every underfucked 16 year old boy.

When you reach adulthood or maturity(they aren't synonyms) you'll see why you shouldn't.Not because only of emotion,but for health factors too.

Legeon wrote on 26.09.2009 at 20:18
"Middle aged women should not head bang. It looks ridiculous."

Poor Doro, Sharon Den Adel and many others. They all look ridiculous cause some stupid teenager says that. BTW, Simone from Epica is now 24, in January she will be 25, so this will make her too old for head banging, according to this dude standards, so she should stop her beautiful head banging straight after her BD!!!

"Well, I kinda like sluts. I?m a bad boy."

Well, often males who are impotents surprisingly like sluts, cause it is the only thing which turn them on and make their little friend "work" a bit :)

But fatty grannies in short skirts and thigh high boots look pathetic, poor old women, it is their last chance to attrack attention of some pubertal teenagers :)

Michelle wrote on 26.09.2009 at 21:36
Michelle. Of course Simone won´t be too old to headbang. She´ll be doing some headbanging many years to come. Oh BTW, "headbangin" is slang for doing a blow job. Ramones "Suzie is a headbanger1978.

Wrathchild wrote on 27.09.2009 at 10:32
Legeon said: "When you reach adulthood or maturity(they aren't synonyms) you'll see why you shouldn't.Not because only of emotion,but for health factors too."

Legeon is right W. You might get herpes. :-p

TheSeer wrote on 27.09.2009 at 10:57
@wrathchild

""headbangin" is slang for doing a blow job. "

That really made me laughing...
So,Tuomas is giving head too,like Marco,like Amon Amarth,you name it.

But people,don't take wrathchild's criteria serious.He just finds something that Tarja does/is/says,and Anette isn't,and somehow he manages to make it look ridiculous or horny...

But Wrathchild,if Tarja headbanging is like giving head,why don't you like that?
After all,YOU said you like sluts :P

Legeon wrote on 27.09.2009 at 14:13
Iam 34years old and I love headbanging(I don´t talk about blowjobs;-), only just headbanging, please , notice that..hihi)

but this isn´t the subjekt here... the subject is the story about the Outro...I thought....
And you all talking about old women and dirty dreams... how cool is that.... I can´t stop laughing... please give me more to read..Iam hungry for new comments...

celisajan wrote on 27.09.2009 at 17:11
Perhaps Anette is just a girlie(an old girlie)..
Tarja is just a woman who knows to treat the fans right, because she is profesional...
Tarja is a good actress...she knows how to play her show...

But this is no reason to think she is a better human than Anette!!!
She is a better gamer...

celisajan wrote on 27.09.2009 at 17:21
"BTW, "headbangin" is slang for doing a blow job."

But if Anette can't headbang, according to you,that means she doesn't know how to do a blow job properly, that makes her a bad slut, she should catch up with blowing job to please such underfucked boy like you. :) Oh my, she is not good in being metal singer and she isn't even good in being a slut. Amateur in everything, according to you!
BTW, Tuomas and Marco do a lot of headbanging-does this mean.....????

"Tarja is just a woman who knows to treat the fans right, because she is profesional...
Tarja is a good actress...she knows how to play her show..."

Yes, she is a professional and Anette is not that professional or not at all, that's the whole problem.And Tarja is not such a good actress, she can't play on real stage you know,like in a play, so she is not such a real gamer. Anette turned out to be too puffed up, too soon. That's laughable.

Nora wrote on 27.09.2009 at 20:19
Damn, this song would've been a nice closer-track, on the album.

NW should learn their lesson: Do not cover songs, made by retards who won't give you the permission, to publish them.

Oh, just checked the wikipedia article. I knew there's something rotten... :-P

DeadAndGone wrote on 27.09.2009 at 21:16
DeadAndGone said: "NW should learn their lesson: Do not cover songs, made by retards who won't give you the permission, to publish them. "

And Maestro should learn even better lesson. He should not respect "retards" like Hans Zimmer and Michael Nyman who don't respect Nightwish music! He should respect people who respect Nightwish music like Britney Spears. But judging his latest interviews, I think he has started to learn it. :-p

TheSeer wrote on 27.09.2009 at 21:43
Ok folks,let's sum things up,we want to keep track:

When tarja is a diva,it's because her character is like that.
When she's good with fans,it's because she is a good actor.

When Anette is diva,it's because 1)evil fans don't let her be and 20she's not a good actor.
When she's good,she's a sweeeeeeeeet angel.

Got it?

Legeon wrote on 27.09.2009 at 21:46
"NW should learn their lesson: Do not cover songs, made by retards who won't give you the permission, to publish them."

NW should learn their lesson: do not make shitty covers from real beautiful songs, to displease the original composer so much that he didn't like it at all and didn't let them publish it.

Nyman did the right thing not letting them publish such crap.

"Iam 34years old and I love headbanging(I don´t talk about blowjobs;-), only just headbanging, please , notice that..hihi)"

Sorry girl,according to Wrathchild's vision you are also an old woman and perhaps also a slut. You would make a lovely couple with him ;) But the problem is that he is after this girl Legeon, so you could stay uncoupled.

Peter wrote on 27.09.2009 at 22:18
For those who don't know Nyman's original:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dPS-EHl-FE

TheSeer wrote on 27.09.2009 at 23:04
I prefer this version and I think it sucks that Michael wont let them release it.

I was at the gig and the whole gig was amazing

I wish people would stop slagging Nighwish/Anette off now and let the Nightwish fans enjoy them in peace thank you very much or should that be kiitos paljon

Toni wrote on 28.09.2009 at 19:17
Ok Nora. Let´s end this discussion. Tarja is a professional "headbanger" and Anette is an amature. Let´s have it your way. End of discussion.

Wrat wrote on 28.09.2009 at 19:22
"I prefer this version and I think it sucks that Michael wont let them release it. "

This version is really poor and the original composer knows better when and whom he should give permit to release a cover of HIS song!

"Let´s end this discussion. Tarja is a professional "headbanger" and Anette is an amature. Let´s have it your way. "

Yes, Tarja is professional headbanger on metal/rock stage as a performer, not in that dirty slang way :) So let's end this discussion.

Nora wrote on 28.09.2009 at 22:48
Toni said: "I wish people would stop slagging Nighwish/Anette off now and let the Nightwish fans enjoy them in peace thank you very much or should that be kiitos paljon"

Are you sure Maestro wants the same?

TheSeer wrote on 29.09.2009 at 01:15
Yeah, we must agree with this amaaaaaaazing composer, and respect his wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiise decision. After all he's soooooooo famous.....such a pillar, of the classical music and culture, such an inspiration for the future generations....the brightest star in the musical world!A self-made God...... Hip, hip Hooray !!!1111!11!!!

Everyone bow !

DeadAndGone wrote on 29.09.2009 at 16:07
@DeadAndGone

"After all he's soooooooo famous.....such a pillar, of the classical music and culture, such an inspiration for the future generations....the brightest star in the musical world"

The fact that you have no idea who he is doesn't make him unknown...
But i suppose,a well-known, Golden Globe, Bafta and American Film Institute awards winner, appointed Commander of the Order of the British Empire, with dozens of successful works,opera composer,with a degree in musicology,pioneer in applying "minimalism" in music,and with numerous collaborations,can't compete with Tuomas Holopainen,a composer who can't write his own orchestral parts,has not composed more than 9 albums,has no degree,no award more important than Echo and unknown to all non-metal listeners.

btw,Nyman IS an inspiration for future generations,since other artists recycle existing scores from his own compositions.

Legeon wrote on 29.09.2009 at 22:15
Wow, NNF are so ignorant about music and serious music composers! The only composer they accept and who is good for them is Tuomas Holopainen! LOL!

Pophater wrote on 29.09.2009 at 22:42
"American Film Institute awards", Oh wait, don't tell me..!! It's the same bunch of enormous brain capacitys, who give away the oscars....hahaha Niiiice, very nice. Now you convinced me ;-) I'm in awe, man.....that's some serious s**t right there..... XD

Now let's see,.. the one and only British composer who can live up to the hype, is Andrew Lloyd Webber, and for a good reason !
You said Tuomas' awards are unknown to "non-metal listeners"....fair enough, now be a good girl, and tell me how many non-classical listeners, or movie score buffs, are aware of the awards won by this guy, who's a*s you're so ardently kissing here....mmm?

NNF, it's very witty, PopLover :-) Did you invented the term by yourself, or the whole kindergarten helped... XD

DeadAndGone wrote on 30.09.2009 at 00:54
Pophater said: "Wow, NNF are so ignorant about music and serious music composers! The only composer they accept and who is good for them is Tuomas Holopainen! LOL!"

I've noticed that too. Comments like this on Tarja's videos "She is nothing without Tuomas and his songwriting skills" sound like they want to say Tuomas is the ONLY good composer in the world.

TheSeer wrote on 30.09.2009 at 10:29
@DeadAndGone

"tell me how many non-classical listeners, or movie score buffs, are aware of the awards won by this guy"

Many,as we saw recently.Most of NW fans knew who this guy was.I said it before,but i'll say it again:
The fact that YOU have no idea who he is doesn't make him unknown.

BUT from all my arguments,you decided to pick just one(awards) and mock it...
NW must be giving away some seriously good shit for you to smoke.

Or your stupidity is natural?

Anyway,i don't care if this guy is known or completely unknown.The point is that it is his song,and yes,being his composition,we have to RESPECT his decision.

I know for sure all you NW fans would fight for Tuomas and support him to death if he had done the same thing.
Now,get over it and face the facts:
The original composer hated what they did to his song.Remember that he's a supporter in minimalism in music,and NW loaded his song with vocals,guitars,orchestras and all those over-the-top shit Tuomas uses to hide his inability to compose some more complex songs than his catchy,generic melodies.

Legeon wrote on 30.09.2009 at 11:01
I was just curious to check how many Okays Nyman gave for other bands. And as far as I found out, I maybe wrong ( or let's blame Google ) only the godlike "The Divine Comedy" got 3 times the go for cover. No other bands. Maybe some of our ONF, AHF, TFPF, OIKEBTYF can make up my oh so lame CPU.

Cheers

OceanWithin wrote on 30.09.2009 at 15:26
Geeze, I just lost 30 minutes of my employers time to read this crap here.
Can't there be a way that the "NW turned out to be shit" fans just accept that there are people actually still liking NW with the "slut" on the mike.....aaaand that maybe those fans of the 2.0 NW ( the one yith the "slut" on the mike" ) may not accept everything coming from this band. I guess celisajan and other got good points. Problem, you other poeple don't get it and still try to digg out stuff to blame. Iiiffff this stuff is related to music and general appearance, OK this is taste and I don't comment, but collecting every each so lame bullshit to whine about, just to have killing arguments, just sucks.
Tarja was not perfect and still isn't. Tuomas was not perfect and still isn't, Anette is not perfect and still isn't, King Foo was not perfect and will never be to manage this band correctly. SO, what's the point of discussions.

OceanWithin wrote on 30.09.2009 at 15:50
@OceanWithin

"what's the point of discussions."

Because they aren't perfect,as you said.If they were,we wouldn't be here criticizing them.
And before starting your shit about hypocrites here,i suggest you to see more carefully our comments in Tarja's articles and see that we also criticize things there(only less,for the simple reason that she hasn't made herself a parody).

Legeon wrote on 30.09.2009 at 17:07
"(only less,for the simple reason that she hasn't made herself a parody)."
Legeon...the parody....hhhmmmm the parody is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
read all this comments(your own , too) and then tell me...who made himself a parody..
We made it...
with our endless and unsocial discussions
Some here mock about the NW show??? The badest show is here!!!!!
Applause applause...jetzt tanzen alle Puppen, macht auf der Bühne Licht..lalalala Muppetshow...

celisajan wrote on 01.10.2009 at 10:40
celisajan wrote: "...the parody....hhhmmmm the parody is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
read all this comments(your own , too) and then tell me...who made himself a parody..
We made it... "

You finally got it. This is just fun. This is not about being bitter, or being Tarja talibans or whatever, just fun. The band we used to love turned themselves into a circus, and we watch it and comment on it. They don't deserve anything better, because they seem to love bashing someone on the internet themselves, and we enjoy it. Alright? So stop that typical "just get a life, stop whining about what happened 4 years ago" because it's none of your business what we do to amuse ourselves and you're not our psychiatrist.

Earwen wrote on 01.10.2009 at 19:16
DeadAndGone, I only used term which was used here before by others:) Do not shake, better learn more things about good serious composers in the world in order not to be so ignorant:)

And as far as I know only original composer has the main word when it comes to giving permit to release the cover of his own song. And he has right to give permit as many times as he and only he likes. He doesn't owe anything to anyone, he didn't make them choose this song to cover or make this particular version. It was their decision. If he didn't like how they treated his own song, why should he bother to give them permit to release it? Nyman, well-known, respected and serious composer, didn't like cover at all and let them know about it. It is their problem that they just wanted to show-off.
BTW, seriously Nyman can be blamed for not liking this cover. It is sounds like a mainstream crap.

Earwen, you are right, band which turned itself into parody deserves mocking :)

Pophater wrote on 02.10.2009 at 00:07
This cover is so annoying. Really bad. I like the original, it is really awesome!

Sadrick wrote on 02.10.2009 at 00:09
I meant
*BTW, seriously Nyman can't be blamed for not liking this cover. It is sounds like a mainstream crap.* :D

Pophater wrote on 02.10.2009 at 09:41
Wooow, Cock...umm...PopLover, thanks for educating me, it's so nice and cute.
You also seem to have a lot of knowledge about the "mainstream crap"...some sort of, first hand experience. :-P Don't hesitate, teach us about good music. XD

I'm starting to think, that this cover really sucks. I mean, come on...a whole bunch of kiddies on the internet said it sucks. It Must be true. It sounds so convincing.
Bad NW, BAD! How dare you disappoint the puppies.

DeadAndGone wrote on 03.10.2009 at 11:12
DeadAndGone, well since you don't know much about good serious composers , you are ignorant. Of course. But hardly you'll be able to learn something about them. If you stick so much just to Holopainen :). Probably you do not even know names like Poulenc and etc. And mainstream crap is something you can hear everyday unfortunately- on most radio stations, through TV, on the streets,etc., it sounds just like this pathetic crappy cover:).

Pophater wrote on 03.10.2009 at 19:52
All I have to say: bad cover.

Iris wrote on 03.10.2009 at 20:35
Well, I have no issues with good and serious composers, at least not as severe, as you seem to have with Holopainen.
You have a curious definition, of "mainstream crap"...'cause on the streets I hear mindless babble, similar to your (and others) posts here, so....
The day when music on the streets, will sound like this "pathetic crappy cover", will be the day, I'll stop wear noise-canceling earphones. ;-)

DeadAndGone wrote on 04.10.2009 at 10:14
DeadAndGone, the issue is that people who like serious music as well a lot can't stick only to Holopainen thinking he is best composer and most complicated composer in the world, lol. Especially now.

Well, if you are a fan of mainstrean crap, maybe it hurts you. But I also hear a lot of this blind fanatic narrow-minded shouts on streets in conversations, similar to your posts here when somebody shouts that Avril Lavigne is supreme hardcore rock singer of all times, for example. :)
And you can stop wear noise-canceling earphones on the streets already now, cause a lot of music on the streets does sound like this poppy cover :).

Pophater wrote on 04.10.2009 at 12:05
NW shifts to pop-rock. Ok,their problem, but they just ruined beautiful original music. I do not like the cover but thanks God it will never be released on album.XD

Orion wrote on 04.10.2009 at 13:15
It might be, good enough for a Poplover, but don't judge everyone, by your standarts.

DeadAndGone wrote on 06.10.2009 at 17:44
DeadAndGone, if you are a poplover than do not judge others here by your pop-standarts, lol.

Wolf wrote on 06.10.2009 at 21:55
Legeon: Nevermind, let's bow to Tuomas Holopainen and Andrew Lloyd-Webber, the saviours of classical music. ROTFL.

NNFs are just too funny. They fulfil all the stereotypes.

Almagest wrote on 11.10.2009 at 03:13
Nightwish doesn´t earn a nickel by using their recorded version of "heart,,,". They did it for the fans, something special for a special moment. Now, what bothers me is a big assed bandy legged parasite bitch that makes a careere and a living out of performing Tuomas and Nightwish songs. This bitch wanted her own solo careere and when she got it she parasites on Tuomas composisions. Tarja, can you possibly sink any lower? No I think you hit rockbottom. Pathetic.
Wraithchild....said

I saw this on youtube...and thought what the hell? LOL I really liked Tarja and respected her but not after this. I was a little shocked and thought she would have kept a little dignity seeing as she was so adimit about her SOLO career.I blamed her husband for the greed but she's allowed it and equally at fault for allowing him to control and influence her.

I cannot see how so many can defend this woman and her face after she purposely cancelled all those shows so she can work on her solo career and do 'stuff'...especially after she commited herself to the band for another year? That right there told me she didn't give a shit about the NW fans at the time(meaning all you ex fans who constantly bitch about this band) or her band mates.

What a bunch of rubber heads. You go on and on about how Holopainen fired her? He was way too easy on her in my opinion and should have fired her a long time ago when she started this crap. Too bad he had to honour the rest of the tour for the fans, huh?

I admit it, Tuomas Holopainen is not too bright sometimes, but at least he thought about the fans and tried to keep the lines moving as best as he could and if he tried to convince her and do whatever he could to make her to stay after DDP, he's an complete idiot.

two cents wrote on 12.11.2009 at 06:39
" Now, what bothers me is a big assed bandy legged parasite bitch that makes a careere and a living out of performing Tuomas and Nightwish songs. This bitch wanted her own solo careere and when she got it she parasites on Tuomas composisions. Tarja, can you possibly sink any lower? No I think you hit rockbottom. Pathetic. "

Actually, she only performs about three NW-Songs in a concert - of 17 or more! And she does it because their fans want it - it's the only way to hear these songs live the way they ought to be by now. And of course she likes them, she sang 9 years in this band, remember? And mostly one of them is a cover song, like OTHAFA or TPOTO.
So she does NOT make a living because of singing some old NW songs live. Honestly.

"I cannot see how so many can defend this woman and her face after she purposely cancelled all those shows so she can work on her solo career and do 'stuff'...especially after she commited herself to the band for another year? "

She DID NOT cancel shows because she wanted to pursue her solo career. She cancelled them because she was SICK because of the hard touring or because the band's management informed her too late. NOT because she wanted to practice for her solo concerts or just for fun.
You really believe every word of Tuomas even if there isn't even one single proof he's correct, right?

"That right there told me she didn't give a shit about the NW fans at the time(meaning all you ex fans who constantly bitch about this band) or her band mates. "

There is NO PROOF she didn't care about her fans back then. Of course she was depressive and stressed out because of the hard touring, who could blame her for that? Still, for example even when she was sexually assaulted by an idiot on stage she returned after a while. Anette left the stage in Belo Horizonte either because of fog - and didn't even tell the audience why but just left - or because there was hassle within the band - and we know Tarja must have had loads of that, too.

" Too bad he had to honour the rest of the tour for the fans, huh? "

Bullshit. If he had thrown her out before, he wouldn't have been able to release a DVD and he would have lost a lot of money because of the show. It was coward to wait till the last show.

Earwen wrote on 16.11.2009 at 22:13
Go and learn that there are two sides to every story, kid.

Almagest wrote on 16.11.2009 at 22:48

NIGHTWISH: Song that will never be released was heard in Hartwall Arena; audio available

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